Posts by Phizzy

24

Jehovah's Witnesses are a breakaway

by HowTheBibleWasCreated in

let me follow the trial.

in 1931 rutherford started jehovah's witnesses.

be before that.. bible student and they merged before 1917 with russelites and they merge with adventists, and then miller in 1844.before that be disperse into baptist and other denominations.

Phizzy

Thanks for Posting that PDF Slim, most interesting !

One quote in it from a work of 1861 interested me because of the writers use of the word " Truth" ,

"The number of those in Rochester who love the truth is small. Those comprising the little ecclesia have mostly come to the truth through much tribulation of Millerism, Marshism, Cookism and Storrism and I judge from the bad road they have travelled they have had sufficient experience to enable them to endure hardness as good soldiers and to contend earnestly for the faith."

I wondered if he was using it that way, the same way JW's and Mormons do, because already these various groups referred to their interpretations as " The Truth" ??

The conclusion of the PDF is nicely done, the writer stressed the honesty of belief of the men from the various factions, and says " they just could not agree on the details" . How similar to the various groups today who have sprung from Adventist roots ! they only vary one from another in small details.

24

Jehovah's Witnesses are a breakaway

by HowTheBibleWasCreated in

let me follow the trial.

in 1931 rutherford started jehovah's witnesses.

be before that.. bible student and they merged before 1917 with russelites and they merge with adventists, and then miller in 1844.before that be disperse into baptist and other denominations.

Phizzy

Rutherford took over in a Business Coup of doubtful legal force, and got away with it, by being a bully I would guess.

Many who had followed Russell, and still called themselves Bible Students left, especially after the 1925 debacle, about which Rutherford admitted " I made a bit of an ass of myself didn't I ?". ( I think he meant arse).

The followers of Rutherford were not much greater in number than the Bible Students when Rutherford strove to distance himself from them, and further from Russell, by instituting a new name.

His successor, Knorr, followed the methods of Corporate America, and drove the business model to success, via profitable printing and selling of literature, and making money from Conventions.

If Rutherford and Knorr had not been so interested in $$$ and more interested in really being a Christian Org. the JW's would probably not number many at all today.

With regard to your points in the O.P. the line you trace is more accurate and truthful than what I saw in the WT mag a few years ago where they traced back through Russell and then selected religious figures during the intervening Centuries until they got back to the 1st Century, a most spurious Line of Succession and History indeed !

46

Complexity, Evolutionists Biggest Problem

by Sea Breeze in

recently, some scientists modeled one of the simplest known cells - that of a bacteria.

it took an army of 128 computers running for 10 hours to process the data required in the 25 categories of molecules that are involved in this "simple cells'" life processes.

think about that for a moment - 128 computers running for 10 hours just to compute the data, not actually do it mind you; but just to model the known processes in one of the simplest known cells, which is many orders of magnitude simpler than a human cell.

Phizzy

Complexity is no problem to people who can see and understand the Science.

The very first life on the Planet was to a degree, from this layman's point of view, somewhat complex, but I can easily appreciate that no outside influence was needed for it to develop.

17

Questions I have about the "Ministry School".

by Pallbearer in

i remember that jehovah's witnesses used to have a 2-hour, 2-part mid-week meeting which included a 1-hour "ministry school" followed by a 1-hour "service meeting".

please correct me if i am wrong in any respect but to the best of my memory the ministry school was composed of 4 parts, as follows:.

part 1: an "instruction talk".

Phizzy

alanv. I think I only learned a few, but important things from, or because of, the TMS. One was how to project my voice. When I was young we met in quite a large Hall, with no Sound System !! I prevailed upon the Congregation to get one, as some just had weak voices, or no ability to project.

When we got a Sound System , I learned the proper use of microphones. So many people turn their head away from it, or are the wrong distance from it etc .The other , vital, thing I learned was, be the Master of your subject. People are always prepared to listen to someone who is the Master of their subject, and is able to tell them something they do not know. This always involved me in extra research outside of JW Literature.

Learning that though is good, if I have to speak now on anything, I do my Homework ! And people can always hear me , microphone or not !

11

Are You Afraid You Might Do Something or Say Something That Is Considered Politically Incorrect?

by minimus in

jw
friends

i was just reading how a guy on the net was saying he was attracted to some black women like halle berry but serena or gayle king not at all.

he was expressing his opinion.

anyway, he quickly got fired and he profusely apologized for what he said and has asked for help from the naacp and the mayor’s office to learn to do better.

Phizzy

I am too old to worry if my opinions offend someone. I am sure some of my opinions do, but the offended can go home, sulk, and then grow up, their being offended is not my problem, and I am not in the least concerned.

I have evidently offended some Muslim people on Social Media by pointing out that THEIR being offended by non Muslims not giving a shit if we offend their religious feelings is their problem, not ours, but so what ? Silly people like that can go jump.

As to being Politically Correct in other areas, again, I go where Angels fear to tread, but I try to never be rude, or attack people personally, I just show where their stance is wrong, but I do not care WHO they are, if a Gay Transvestite is wrong in what they say, I will strongly denounce what they say, but of course, not what, or who, they are. I do not care if someone is gay, a transvestite or whatever, their choice. Just used as an example.

The Free Speech we actually have, which is never the freedom to foment hate or violence, but is frequently the Right To Offend, must be treasured and protected.

34

Do You Think “Normal” Is Ever Going To Happen Again?

by minimus in

jw
friends

since covid, our lives have all been affected.

do you think people will ever get back to normal, pre-covid?

are masks, vaccinations and social distancing the “new normal “?.

Phizzy

Back to what we used to call " Normal" ? I hope not.

Yes, I hope we will be Covid virus free at some point, but the many things that have been highlighted by the pandemic as being so very wrong with Society I hope are noted, and acted upon, and that we do not return to what were in reality , bad old days.

The fact that front line health workers, and many more that are seen as more lowly, are in fact the most important people in Society, and should be payed accordingly. That a functioning universal Free at the Point of Access Health System is vital. Minor things, like, working from Home is possible for so many, the daily commute unnecessary.

More important things have been underlined too, like how easily lies and conspiracy theories take hold, and the truth gets ever harder to find. How Capitalism in a largely unregulated form does not work for anyone but the 1%, and the great need there is for a Universal Basic Income and for strong Unions to bring about fair wages.

We need to build a new Normal that works for the Many Not The Few.

20

Why did Paul call Jesus, “the firstborn from the dead”?

by Doug Mason in

"jesus christ was resurrected on nisan 16, 33 c.e., the day when the jewish high priest offered up the firstfruits of the barley harvest.

this fits in accurately with jesus' being the "firstfruits" in the resurrection of the human dead.

(1 cor.

Phizzy

" Suffice to say, reconstructing 1800-1900 year old religious sects to figure out what they each believed while history did its best to compound them into a single religion is really hard."

It is ! and of course the old JW view, and that of many Bible believers, that there was a uniform and united belief system accepted by the Apostles and others in the 1st Century is nonsense. There were various groups who followed Jesus, and disagreed on Doctrine.

The Apostle Paul was of course very different in his beliefs to those of the the Christians in Jerusalem, and he is at pains to point this out, in his genuine writings. This is obscured by the fictional Acts of the Apostles and by later writings pretending to be by Paul.

What he meant by " Firstborn from the dead" is probably as stated in previous Posts on this Thread, but would the other Christian groups have agreed with him ?

17

Questions I have about the "Ministry School".

by Pallbearer in

i remember that jehovah's witnesses used to have a 2-hour, 2-part mid-week meeting which included a 1-hour "ministry school" followed by a 1-hour "service meeting".

please correct me if i am wrong in any respect but to the best of my memory the ministry school was composed of 4 parts, as follows:.

part 1: an "instruction talk".

Phizzy

The effectiveness or not of the old Theocratic M. S, depended upon the skills of the Elder in charge , in the old days we had a guy who was very skilled, and taught many to be good Speakers. Then we got a guy who himself had no mastery of the English language, was hardly literate, and was a total joke, why the Elders foisted him upon us I know not !

Nobody improved of course under his "tutelage". I should imagine that now anyone who turns out to be a reasonable Speaker does so from natural talent, not learning skills from any JW Meeting !

5

Questions to examine our faith

by road to nowhere in

this weeks clam part.

takes you to a wt on slowing down.

first question is are you discouraged by the promises not coming.

Phizzy

Looking back over my nearly six decades in the Org, and remembering frequent Watchtower Articles like this, and several talks, I realise that I used to find them slightly depressing.

This was because of Cognitive Dissonance, and me not wanting to actually face up to the thoughts that were coming in to my mind, such as " I wonder if this is all nonsense ?", sadly, like most JW's do, I considered these thoughts to be a lack of faith, and a bad thing, and shoved them deep in to the recesses of my mind.

I say sadly, for had I not done so, I would have woken up MUCH earlier ! I wonder if this recent stuff will start maybe one or two JW's on the road to Freedom ? Most of them will not be affected, any who are still in these days are deeply entrenched for a variety of reasons , and will do what I did, shove thoughts like "Really ?" to the back of their minds, again sadly, to be FREE is so wonderful !!

12

What day off the Week?

by BereanThinker7 in

does anybody know if the borg has ever done any articles on what day of the week they think jesus died?

i know most denominations think it was friday and i have also heard somewhat sensible arguments that it could be wednesday.

not that it matters weather one in a believer or not even.

Phizzy

This is an interesting quote from Professor Bart Ehrman on the Historical Jesus, and sheds light on why we can not be dogmatic upon anything to do with him, day of death, hour of death, or whatever :

“I personally love the Bible. I read it all the time, in the original Greek and Hebrew; I study it; I teach it. I have done so for over thirty-five years. And I don’t plan to stop any time soon. But I don’t think the Bible is perfect. Far from it. The Bible is filled with a multitude of voices, and these voices are often at odds with one another, contradicting one another in minute details and in major issues involving such basic views as what God is like, who the people of God are, who Jesus is, how one can be in a right relationship with God, why there is suffering in the world, how we are to behave, and on and on. And I heartily disagree with the views of most of the biblical authors on one point or another. Still, in my judgment all of these voices are valuable and they should all be listened to. Some of the writers of the Bible were religious geniuses, and just as we listen to other geniuses of our tradition—Mozart and Beethoven, Shakespeare and Dickens—so we ought to listen to the authors of the Bible. But they were not inspired by God, in my opinion, any more than any other genius is. And they contradict each other all over the map.”

― Bart D. Ehrman, Did Jesus Exist?: The Historical Argument for Jesus of Nazareth