Posts by Phizzy

23

The Gospel According to Jehovah's Witnesses

by Vanderhoven7 in

mark jones explains the watchtower gospel much better than i can.. "the good news that christians in the first century preached was the birth, death and resurrection of jesus christ; that all those who believed in him were saved and reconciled to god through the death of his son.. unfortunately jehovah’s witnesses) have been led to believe it is something bizarrely different.

the good news according to the watchtower society is as follows:.

the the good news (according to jehovah’s witnesses).

Phizzy

" None of those words attributed (in the synoptic gospels) to Jesus said Jesus required belief in the resurrection of Jesus! " Good point !

"Mark" was the first Gospel that we find in the N.T to be written, Matthew and Luke copy "Mark" word for a word to a great degree, and then add their two cents. The "Long Ending" to Mark is a later addition, because "Mark" lacked any real reference to the resurrection as significant perhaps.

This reluctance to include BELIEF in the Resurrection as vital to being saved is not really contradictory to the earliest teaching we have on Christianity in the N.T, that of Paul, but of course, if one denied the FACT of the Resurrection, that person would be automatically an Apostate from their Brethren's point of view.

So Mark Jones' summary of the Good News is not so far off, it was a simple message, which is why it had such appeal, and why Christianity spread like a flame in dry tinder.

Jehovah's Witnesses do not preach this simple message, they add to it, complicate it, and make it not just less effective in promoting Christianity, but ruin it.

7

Celebrity Dub list grows longer

by Nathan Natas in

jw
friends

http://www.vogue.co.uk/vogue_daily/story/story.asp?stid=14388

campbell's god mother .

valerie campbell has admitted that she is a devout jehovah's witness.

Phizzy

What always annoyed me when I was in, was the Cult of Celebrity that was within the J.W's. The G.B and writing Committee were guilty of fawning over any celebrity that was even on the outer limits of the Org, and individual J.W's were really into it, I remember loads of lads at one Convention many years ago, all wearing a Michael Jackson glove !

Also individual J.W's would make anyone fairly "high up" in the Org. a celebrity, I saw some sickening brown nosing at times, pathetic.

17

Christmas and the name jehovah

by nowwhat? in

for the same reasons jw's reject christmas they use the name jehovah.. dec 25 is the recognized day to celebrate the birth of christ in the world.- we use jehovah because it is the recognized name of the father in the world.. it dishonors jesus because we don't know the actual date of jesus birth- even though we don't know the actual pronouncing of gods name it brings honor to god to use it.

even though the angels rejoiced at the birth of jesus, no where in the bible does it say we should celebrate it.

even though no where in the bible does it say christians are to be witnesses of jehovah, we proudly bear his name!.

Phizzy

"Exactly. The REAL reason they don’t want members to celebrate Christmas and other holidays is to keep them away from non-Witness relatives and friends." Spot on ! Once your find out how wonderful your "worldly" family and friends are, your J.W "conditional" family and friends are just not of an acceptable standard.

I don't know for sure, but it was, I think, the desire to make the Bible Students stand out somewhat that Russell used the name Jehovah so much, and certainly it was big part for the choice of name for the group that Rutherford made.

5

Paging punkofnice

by riblah in

jw
friends

i've missed seeing his posts; i hope he's okay - maybe on a nice vacation (or i guess i should say holiday) and enjoying himself..

Phizzy

Hope everything is O.K. with Punkie, lovely guy. I urged him to get proper help, I hope he did, part of his therapy may be a rest from anything vaguely J.W ?

If you read this Buddy, we are here for you !

4

The Spanish Inquisition.

by Lost in the fog in

a friend is just after sending this to me.. https://www.reddit.com/r/exjw/comments/zcrssl/schism_in_jehovahs_witnesses_over_secret_abuse/.

Phizzy

This is going to spread, especially if the Org. loses in a High Court in some Country or other. And they DESERVE to lose, the Shunning Policy, and more importantly the way the Practice is carried out, goes against at least two of the U.N and European Human Rights as enshrined in Law.

The org. likes to hide behind one such Right, Freedom of Religion.

I forget where it was, but one Judge I think it was, pointed out that Freedom of Religion NEVER trumps other Human Rights.

5

Trinity

by Lost in the fog in

bumped into a former jw friend who since departing has joined a protestant church.. his explanation of the trinity is "think of the congregation service committee in the jw religion, the three people who locally made all of the decisions affecting the congregation.".

three people each with their own personality who individually were seen as the coordinator, the service overseer, and the secretary.

but who made decisions as a combined unit.. so on the midweek meeting it was announced that "the service committee has approved the following..." .

Phizzy

When we try to explain things which are supposed to be in the Spiritual Realm, we humans always have to resort to anthropomorphisms and to anything from the physical world to help us with our conception, our grasp of what we are trying to talk about.

Hence we fail, through lack of language to describe that which is irrational, metaphysical, and totally unproven.

The best explanation I ever read for how to understand the Trinity Doctrine was by a Christadelphian, written about 150 years ago, I cannot find it on-line at present, my copy died with my old Laptop. Christadelphians do not subscribe to the Doctrine !

The other Thread on here, just revived, on "The Holy Spirit" is fascinating, erudite stuff, and shows the evolution of Doctrine, which is what resulted in the Trinity.

As Leolaia says in that Thread, the J.W org loves to quote Scholars who say the Trinity Doctrine is not found in the Bible, but the org. neglects to say that the roots and foundation of the Doctrine ARE in Scripture.

89

Myth of 1914

by peacefulpete in

the wt engages in history revisionism when insisting the world changed overnight in 1914. in fact the european power struggles that came to a head were centuries old.

millions of lives had been lost in the wars of the 19th century, with the world a powder keg the years prior to the assassination of franz ferdinand in june 1914 which is often said, albeit rather arbitrarily, as the start of the war that escalated over the next 4 years into the great war.

take a look at these two pages and ask if the wt's interpretation of history seems accurate to you.

Phizzy

Thank you Van !

"Fisherman" offered the old False Dichotomy Fallacy, just two ways to look at 1914 according to Fish, but you have shown a Third Way, and a correct way, without painful eisegesis stretching incredulity to the limit, you cannot come up with any dates for events to happen, i.e Bible prophecy. The various Works we find in the Bible were not written with that intention, or vision, they did not look forward thousands of years, even when predicting "End Times" the writers thought they were almost upon them !

"Bible" predictions were deliberately vague, and if you analyse them just briefly, they all failed.

29

Why Not Celebrate Christmas?

by Mum in

jw
friends

so, jw's don't celebrate christmas or other holidays.

as bill cetnar once said, there are two reasons for everything: the reason they tell you, and the real reason.

they will tell you it's because christmas is "pagan" and can lead to all sorts of licentious conduct (like drinking too much macallan scotch?)..

Phizzy

Myself and the Atheist side of the family celebrate Christmas as we choose, and it is wonderful, the joy the grand children demonstrate, the family being together, enjoying good food, a nice drink, and a good laugh !

I remember the old J.W argument along the lines of "you can give presents anytime" etc. yea, but that didn't happen for many, AND the Tree, the Decorations etc all make Christmas a special,(I love Big Baubles LOL), magical time, and for us, the more pagan connections it has, the better !

99

If not the WT/JW relgion where else are 'we' to go? Why not atheistic/scientific philosophical naturalism?

by Disillusioned JW in

sometimes jws wonder if the wt/jw is not the truth, 'then where else are we to go?

' i say 'why not atheistic/scientific philosophical naturalism and why not a secular philosophy which teaches a way of life?

' what do you folks say?.

Phizzy

" Speciation is a very rare event." really ?

35 new Species have been observed to appear in the last few decades.

49

Early Hominem. Neanderthals. Evolution.

by solameguy12 in

so i grew up as a witness but i’m no longer active, i have some family that still practices very seriously.

but i don’t want to ask them my question.

but what does the bible and teaching’s of jw’s say about early hominids?

Phizzy

"The out-of-context quotes and video edits are not an innocent mistake. That still leaves me dumbfounded"

I was already well out, no chance of going back, but not a long time out, when I first became aware of the totally dishonest, deliberate, out of context quotes and editing. These saddened me, as before that time I thought they may have been basically honest, but very misguided, yup, I was still very naive ! But this was blatant telling of whopping LIES by telling less than half the truth etc.

If they had "the truth" there would be no need to Lie through their teeth, no need to use loaded language, and no need to control the flow of information to the J.W Rank and File, but they always have, done all of that, and now it is in a much bigger way.

Why they fight against the Mountain of Evidence for Evolution by Natural Selection is because of their abysmally ignorant, and frankly very silly desire to take as much of the Bible as literal as they dare get away with.

Many Mainstream Christians maintain their faith, alongside an honest recognition of Scientific truths.