Posts by Phizzy

20

As An ExJW or Fader What Do You Believe In?

by minimus in

jw
friends

god?

jehovah?

science?

Phizzy

What do you mean by " believe" min ? When a lot of people use that word, they are referring to trusting that something is true, without evidence. Hence they may "believe" in god.

When it comes to Science, that kind of "belief" is not necessary, Science proves what is true with satisfactory, tested, peer reviewed evidence, no " belief" is necessary.

I will not trust that something is true without the kind of evidence demanded by Science, hence I do not believe in god.

Do I believe in myself ? again, I ask, what exactly do you mean by that ? I believe I exist, I believe I can trust myself to be true to the principles I wish to live my life by etc etc. But is that what you mean ?

21

Jewish Hatred Is Nothing New

by minimus in

jw
friends

jews have been vilified for centuries!

they were nomads looking for the promised land.

they have been nearly exterminated and yet they are still in the middle east as well as a brotherhood throughout the world.

Phizzy

Hatred of any Nationality, Ethnic or Religious Group as a whole is wrong. Yes we can Hate what certain Nations do, or rather their Governments do, but that is not the whole Nation, we can hate the evil done by some religious people, or some people of certain origins, but again to condemn all people who fall in that category is supremely ignorant and wrong.

The Jewish people were a natural target over the Centuries for a number of spurious reasons, not for any valid ones. To perpetuate that, and similar ignorant hatreds, is to not learn from History, and to be, as Simon says earlier, " A Racist Retard".

16

Non Believers, how do you respond ?

by Phizzy in

i recently had this in a message from a jw, a lovely person, but mind controlled, he wrote " a life without hope is no life for me".. how should i respond to that ?

i am an atheist, but want to respond in as kindly a way as possible.. i was thinking along the lies of saying i got no comfort from what i knew to be false hope, but need to say it in a kindly way.. ideas please ?.

Phizzy

I recently had this in a message from a JW, a lovely person, but mind controlled, he wrote " A life without hope is no life for me".

How should I respond to that ? I am an Atheist, but want to respond in as kindly a way as possible.

I was thinking along the lies of saying I got no comfort from what I knew to be False Hope, but need to say it in a kindly way.

Ideas please ?

5

Constantine

by HowTheBibleWasCreated in

the fact that the majority of the world jumps when you say 'god' is traced back to one guy.

constantine, this is the one man that made christianity the official religion rome thus masking the beliefs of people until the reformation a literal hell.. oh yes mohamed knew his teaching later.. when you say 'god' as if other people are supposed to be impressed you owe that to constantine.

not a mythical figure named jesus, .

Phizzy

Yes, you have your work cut out as soon as you get to the 1st Century for sure. Although as with a lot of this, we cannot be categorically sure as to what happened, and who wrote what, etc we can say with assurance that things were not as most people viewed them up until the Enlightenment, and as some still do, that the Bible is inspired and accurate for a start, and written by who it says it is etc etc

The other big myth, perpetuated by other religions as well as JW's, is that there was one Pure Church which sprang up after the death of Jesus.

That is far from reality, there were a good number of different groups that claimed Jesus in some way, all teaching different things, the Bible itself tells us this. Even what we call "Pauline Christianity" is an amalgam of teachings, some from Paul and some adapted after his death by writers pretending to be Paul.

Then we have the intervening mess of battling ideas that was sorted by Constantine because he had the power to do so. Many things were not fully sorted, the Trinity debate continues, the ideas as what is "Canonical" and what should not be included as Scripture goes on too.

If the Christianity of today were claiming to be a valuable antique Vase for example, the experts would say " This Vase has no Provenance".

10

The State of the Labour Party

by LoveUniHateExams in

so, we've recently had local elections across the uk on may 6.. mayoral elections, elections for councillors, and the hartlepool by-election.. labour did pretty well in wales, the snp did well in scotland, and the conservatives killed it in england.. hartlepool, a city that's been labour for 50 years, voted in the tory candidate.

hartlepool voted for brexit in 2016 (70%) and the labour leader, keir starmer, thought it was wise to offer up a labour candidate who is a kent-born remainer.

labour has seriously lost touch with its voter base, that base being traditional working class people.. it is now a party for students, social activists and the perpetually-offended, and trendy self-hating middle class people.. labour will continue to get its ass handed to it in elections until it actually starts listening to ordinary people, the voters.. and ordinary people aren't interested in woke nonsense such as preferred pronouns or taking the knee.. there has been much labour naval-gazing recently following the elections but i'd be surprised if anything is learned.

Phizzy

Yes LUHE! "Traditional Labour Values" have been lost for a long time, even if you go back as far as Harold Wilson, he was more about winning elections than about the working man, though he was a bit more connected to the working man, but he was educated etc etc.

I don't think it is necessary ,or even preferential for a Leader of Labour to be a person born to a poor working class family, and never had the chance of a good education, why would that be helpful, apart form having a natural empathy for the same type of people.

A Leader needs to be a REAL Democratic Socialist, and make sure the top end of the Party is peopled with like minded ones. If that does not happen, Labour is finished as to ever getting Elected. A Modern Day Tony Benn would do.

Of course, such a person would have to know how to deal with the inevitable smears and lies from the MSM etc. and be able to communicate and connect with people of ALL backgrounds.

18

Did Jesus lie about his generation?

by Anony Mous in

we all know the scripture where jesus says 'this generation will by no means pass away before the end will come'.

the jw interpret this as the destruction of the jewish state in jerusalem by the romans and the dispersal of the jewish people.

however, while researching the history of judea, i come across various facts about the region.. so jesus died about 30ce and his disciples were likewise well in their thirties or older, the 'generation' by definition would've lasted until ~50ce (the time during which children are born and raised to have children of their own).

Phizzy

I will just Post this comment from Quora ( feeling lazy) and see what Sea Breeze has to say:

" While there is a minority of historians who claim that there never was a Jesus, the vast majority believe there was a Jesus, but completely disagree to what extent all the tales about Jesus were actually discussing the same individual. This is primarily due to the scarcity of valid, reliable information regarding Jesus.

The author is unknown; sometime in the 2nd century CE, Papias of Hierapolis began saying that “Matthew collected the oracles in the Hebrew language, and each one interpreted them as best he could.”
The author of Matthew never claims to have been an eyewitness to events
Shows knowledge of the destruction of the Temple in Jerusalem in 70CE, putting its writing several decades after the death of Jesus (while yes, this was a “prophesy”, it also says that Jesus would return on “clouds of glory” within the writer’s lifetime and lead his people into heaven…since that didn’t happen, it’s clearly a bit of “revisionist prophesy” on the part of the writer)
Much of Matthew is cribbed from the other three Gospels, but taking things a step further, accentuating the miracles throughout his life (the first Gospel written, Mark, shows Jesus performing very few miracles)
Many verifiable names are included in the Gospels, such as John the Baptist, Pontius Pilate, and Caiaphas, but these would be expected to be found in any document of the time." There is a lot more on Quora if you find the answers to this question on there : " Do credible historians agree that the man named Jesus, who the Christian Bible speaks of, walked the earth and was put to death on a cross by Pilate, Roman governor of Judea?". And even more in related questions on there.

10

The State of the Labour Party

by LoveUniHateExams in

so, we've recently had local elections across the uk on may 6.. mayoral elections, elections for councillors, and the hartlepool by-election.. labour did pretty well in wales, the snp did well in scotland, and the conservatives killed it in england.. hartlepool, a city that's been labour for 50 years, voted in the tory candidate.

hartlepool voted for brexit in 2016 (70%) and the labour leader, keir starmer, thought it was wise to offer up a labour candidate who is a kent-born remainer.

labour has seriously lost touch with its voter base, that base being traditional working class people.. it is now a party for students, social activists and the perpetually-offended, and trendy self-hating middle class people.. labour will continue to get its ass handed to it in elections until it actually starts listening to ordinary people, the voters.. and ordinary people aren't interested in woke nonsense such as preferred pronouns or taking the knee.. there has been much labour naval-gazing recently following the elections but i'd be surprised if anything is learned.

Phizzy

Thanks LUHE. I suppose in some aspects I am "hard left" then, but certainly find a good number of the things you list to be risible. A "Soft Left" person, sometimes called a "Centrist", must be therefore be someone who the true Socialists of the Past would call a Tory anyway.

The Labour Party has been taken over by people at the top end of it who are determined that never, ever, will a Democratic Socialist Government be elected to power in the U.K. Which is sad, as the Membership Card says the Party is a .................. Democratic Socialist Party. IMHO it stands for neither anymore.

18

Did Jesus lie about his generation?

by Anony Mous in

we all know the scripture where jesus says 'this generation will by no means pass away before the end will come'.

the jw interpret this as the destruction of the jewish state in jerusalem by the romans and the dispersal of the jewish people.

however, while researching the history of judea, i come across various facts about the region.. so jesus died about 30ce and his disciples were likewise well in their thirties or older, the 'generation' by definition would've lasted until ~50ce (the time during which children are born and raised to have children of their own).

Phizzy

So much is wrong with Sea Breeze's Post just above that I will have to return when I have time to answer all of it. The 12 points at the end are only vaguely correct, and much of what they say is disputed by Scholars, not agreed broadly at all.

99

If not the WT/JW relgion where else are 'we' to go? Why not atheistic/scientific philosophical naturalism?

by Disillusioned JW in

sometimes jws wonder if the wt/jw is not the truth, 'then where else are we to go?

' i say 'why not atheistic/scientific philosophical naturalism and why not a secular philosophy which teaches a way of life?

' what do you folks say?.

Phizzy

An interesting Thread, and some thoughts new to me, and some sources of info , Thanks Dissy!

An analogy I thought of to answer the original "But where shall we go to ? " is the following, if you learned that the water you were drinking was badly polluted, where would you go to ?".

I think this could spark valuable discussion with a JW, they have tacitly acknowledged that their "source" is somewhat polluted by their question. We can show them how to determine if a source is unpolluted.

They have to use the method of finding Evidence and Facts for what they are about to trust is unpolluted truth, Evidence and Facts that will withstand any scrutiny. Depending upon their ability, we may have to show them how to do that, even some "Fact Checking" Sites are polluted, what appear to be valid Academic Documents and Research are not, and many arguments presented by "Believers" are specious etc etc.

16

JW.org move to media

by Gorb in

jw
friends

with the built of new jw.org media studio's we can predict the future of the jw religion.. because we are living in an age of digital media, what will be the effect of this all?.

will the religion generate a new population?

we know video media is a strong marketing tool.. like to hear your thoughts.. gorby .

Phizzy

When I was young I asked a C.O "Why doesn't the Org do programmes for Television?" the reply I got was " because no matter how good the programme, a better one comes along and people then forget our message, it is better to speak to people person to person".

I think he must have been forearmed to answer this question, because shortly after , if memory serves, the Org had something similar in Print.

But the argument in that answer still stands I think. Their Videos etc are not in fact good enough to compare with others, but they may make some that just about are, but then if even mildly successful, they will be copied and improved upon by commercial interests that are non-JW, and become redundant.

Also if someone was moved to think about maybe joining the JW's, the hoops they would have to go through to get someone to call on them would be off-putting to most, go to a very Culty Web Site and request a Bible Study ? how many will actually do that ?