Posts by Phizzy

6

Another shocking tidbit from the "Douglas Walsh" trial of 1954.

by EdenOne in

i'm reviewing the entire transcript of the douglas walsh case, and found this shocking bit that normally doesn't come up in the search engines, but it should:.

pages 370-375. hayden cooper covington on the stand:.

q: “in your experience of your own congregation in new york, did you have children there of eleven or twelve being baptized?”.

Phizzy

" What a crock of horse-manure! " Atlantis.

It certainly is, to expect young children to enter in to a Lifetime Contract and understand the ramifications of that Contract is recognised as wrong in Law in most Countries. Of course many Countries allow a similar "contract" in the form of being born in to, and initiated in to a particular Religion, to stand, but a Commercial Contract would be void.

The weaselly way they get round this is that if, like me, after child baptism ( I was 12) , you proceed to continue to live the life of a JW in to adulthood, then, according to the JW Org, you have shown you do know what your baptism was all about, and they can Disfellowship, Excommunicate you, for any number of things they have mainly made up.

A Crock of Shit indeed.

20

"Resurrection" or "Re-Creation of The Soul"? What do really JW's teach?

by EdenOne in

interesting find through a book "inside story of jehovah's witnesses" (1967) by w.c. stevenson, supposedly a former jw circuit overseer.

it's an interesting "apostate" perspective written prior to the wts 1975 debacle.. anyway, at a certain point, there's a quote from a book called "the four cults", by professor anthony a. hoekema (1963, william b. eerdmans publishing company), a calvinist, which makes some sharp remarks about the way jehovah's witnesses teach the dead coming back to life:.

1) in the case of those "resurrecting" for everlasting life on earth, one asks: if the soul is extinct at death, and the body disintegrates and its components are integrated into other forms of life, what is there to "resurrect"?

Phizzy

Hi DJW,

yes you did make it clear to me that the WT version of resurrection was talking about what is essentially a clone. I was just underlining that thought for JW's who may never have considered it before.

Your observation tha the WT teaches the following concept is true too of course, " Maybe some of us can be satisfied with the idea that our data and mental program will be preserved and later implanted into a body which has a very close resemblance to our current body, with the newer body becoming youthful and perfect over time." I was one who was satisfied with that as a JW.

The problem with it is that if that is the case, it means that the "Soul" of the person, their memory/personality, does not die. Yet O.T Scripture says it does !

What the JW's teach and believe is essentially the concept of " Soul Sleep", which means that the Soul is Immortal, ( at least in some sense of the word), a Doctrine they have railed against for years, since the time of Russell if memory serves.

Another example of JW muddled, illogical Theology, in conflict with Scripture.

2

What Door to Door has been Like For J W's the Past 20 Years

by IWant2Leave in

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ki801ccg9yo.

Phizzy

In all my 50 years of door knocking, I never had a door slammed in my face, lucky I suppose. Some were very short with me and cut the conversation short with a firm " I am NOT interested" or something, but never was a door slammed. Perhaps the people where I was located were too polite ? I dunno.

I should think it is painful for today's JW's to door knock now, and few will want to return to it. People , genuinely, are not the slightest bit interested in religion here in the U.K as a rule, even Believers think it is a private matter, and don't want a discussion at the door, and have no desire to visit a Cult Website.

Even when I was an active, believing JW the futility of door knocking was apparent to me. It was starkly illustrated for me when an elderly "sister" who had pioneered since her teens told me in all those years she had never contacted someone at the door, got a "Study" and sucked them in to the Cult. Yes, she had "studied" with many, but none from her own first contact ! 40 years of non-productive door knocking !

Door to Door will soon die as a method of keeping J.W's occupied. Letter writing too will pale for them, easier than knock-knocks, but boring, and no results to speak of, so what will the G.B come up with next, to keep JW's on the Treadmill and away from Truth they can find on the Internet ?

20

"Resurrection" or "Re-Creation of The Soul"? What do really JW's teach?

by EdenOne in

interesting find through a book "inside story of jehovah's witnesses" (1967) by w.c. stevenson, supposedly a former jw circuit overseer.

it's an interesting "apostate" perspective written prior to the wts 1975 debacle.. anyway, at a certain point, there's a quote from a book called "the four cults", by professor anthony a. hoekema (1963, william b. eerdmans publishing company), a calvinist, which makes some sharp remarks about the way jehovah's witnesses teach the dead coming back to life:.

1) in the case of those "resurrecting" for everlasting life on earth, one asks: if the soul is extinct at death, and the body disintegrates and its components are integrated into other forms of life, what is there to "resurrect"?

Phizzy

" The WT and the JWs teach re-creation of the body (with Jehovah God instilling into the new body a copy of the mind of the person who had died). The WT even explicitly says so in at least one of their books."

True, but what they are describing is not the resurrection of the person, they are describing the creation of a Clone with an implanted false memory. A Doppelganger, not the real "you".

Not a comforting thought at all that, because the real "you" is still dead.

Of course all the difficulties of thinking about this fade away to nothing when you acknowledge that there is no Afterlife, and no god.

2

Ex Elder interview

by James Jack in

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jikmxk5hgdy.

Phizzy

Ken Mayo comes over as so very sincere, and as very relaxed and happy with where he is now in his life.

If guys like him are leaving, and are ending up happy and relaxed, J.W's should have a deep think about their beliefs, and their Organization, for obviously, " There is something rotten in the State of Denmark". (Marcellus in Shakespeare's "Hamlet".)

5

England through to the Euro Final!!!

by LoveUniHateExams in

f**kin yes!!!.

get in!

!.

Phizzy

At least the Politicians will now not be able to piggy-back on the success, which Johnson and many more would have done.

The wonderful attitude of all our Players and the Manager has exposed how low down are the Racist thugs who call themselves "Fans" of Football.

Gareth Southgate shows what real Leadership is, and what taking accountability means, a pity we do not have Politicians of that calibre in Government, and also that there are precious few in the Opposition of that calibre.

179

The Watchtower is NOT a false prophet

by The Quiet One in

regarding what some have said here about the wt being a false prophet.. i would like to make my point regarding the wt not being a false prophet... so please, if you can be patient enough to read this, at least try to understand what i am getting at.. a false prophet is one who, according to deuteronomy, makes a false prediction of the future and claims that the prediction came from god, or in other words claiming that 'god has said he will do a certain thing at a certain time' etc.. for example, hypothetically speaking, if someone had claimed: "god will bring about the end of the world in 2010", they would have been proven to be a false prophet, obviously.

but, as an example, imagine a man who claimed the position of a prophet of god, (as moses did, because although he was not the type of prophet that predicted the future.. he was still a prophet or spokesman for god) and that he had publicised worldwide, according to his interpretation of a (for example) prophecy found in the book of isaiah, that the world would end in 2010.. and he had also stated that he was not saying that god will end the world in that year.. but only that there was biblical evidence that god might do so.

that would clearly have been a mistake.

Phizzy

OTWO nails it ! They want it both ways, one minute they are prophets and god's channel and so speak for god, the next they are not !

The thing is, it is not something you can have both ways, you either are, or you are not.

Let us just take their disclaimers as being true, they are "not inspired". That means they are not "Spirit Directed" in any real sense , only by what they claim, that they examine the Scriptures and their actions and ideas are directed by what is in the Bible.

That is no different to what any individual Christian, or group of Christians, can do.

If they have no " Hot Line to Heaven", why should anyone pay more attention to them than to anybody ?

13

Serious bible students questions about the bible

by TTWSYF in

many jws (and others) are serious about their biblical studies, but don't ask the right questions.

in basic journalism one learns to ask the right questions which in my years here, i've never hear asked.. who, what, where, by what help, by whose help, why, how and when.

these are all basic questions when researching anything that you want to write an article or paper on what ever related subject.. who wrote/created the bible?.

Phizzy

HTBWC I agree that the influences are clear to see, and I still find studying Ancient Writings, not just those in the various Bibles, but others too, a fascinating thing to do. Even though I am an Atheist too.

I always ask such questions as " when was this actually written ? what were the religious and other thoughts in those days ? and What is the Writer's agenda ?".

The last question should not be forgotten, ALL the Bible writers had a particular aim and reason for writing that colours their work, if you do not understand what that is, you cannot successfully understand the work.

Just one example, The Book of Daniel was written as a political tract, a polemic against Antiochus 1V "Epiphanes", not as a work of Prophecy, the Apocalyptic stuff being there more to safely put the work in that Genre than for it to be an obvious political rant.

15

Most doubts aren't created by apostates. They are created in a Kingdom Hall.

by pistolpete in

i found this interesting perspective on reddit.. post;.

i remember the moment the first real crack in my faith happened as a jehovah's witness.

i was sitting in the kingdom hall during the watchtower study where, as is common, the article was talking about how the israelites as a nation abandoned jehovah.. "but wait," i thought, "having a nation represent him here on earth was part of his plan.

Phizzy

I was born in, and over the years came in to contact with a number of Apostates and religious people prepared to show the errors of JW Theology, I had long conversations with Vicars, and once a Bishop, none of these had the desired affect, I was left still a faithful JW.

Then one day I was simply looking around the K.H at all the folks there , chatting away to each other after the meeting, and the thought came in to my head " What if this is all wrong ? not true ? all of us here would be following the wrong religion!".

That was the first big crack in my "Spiritual Armour" I guess, just allowing that thought to take shape, and stay with me. Eventually I left because on my own I came to the conclusion that the 1914 teaching was NOT in the Bible.

It was only after leaving that I was helped by XJW's, that i found others who saw through 1914 and much more !

The doubt was born in the Kingdom Hall for sure with me !

12

Are JWs still reporting time?

by Vanderhoven7 in

here are some little child encouragers at work.. .

how do they report time since the halls closed?.

Phizzy

Many years ago we had a somewhat strange "sister" in a Congregation about 20 miles away, who refused to report time, she said " It is between me and Jehovah". She did go out on the knock-knocks, just refused to report how much time.

I presume she was prevailed upon to Report eventually, but I would have loved to have heard the conversations as Elders tried to justify why she had to. She was stroppy enough to counter all there reasons I would have thought.

Today's 'phoning around means there is even more control, but how can the Elders know how much time you have really spent ? Field Service Reports from most JW's back in my day were really great Works of Fiction, today's must be even more fanciful.

I do wonder whether all this is adding to the cognitive dissonance which must be felt by JW's to a greater degree these days than it did me all those years ago.

As Blues said above, they must be aware it is a waste of their time.