Posts by Phizzy

20

Chosen

by Gman2001 in

how exactly did jehovah come down to earth in 1919....look around at all the religions....and choose the bible students?

.

Phizzy

" with no background or explanation at all, and it's just supposed to be accepted as fact "

They did that for a number of years with the thoroughly debunked 1914 nonsense, just presented it as fact. with no explanation.

Then they published a some convoluted and logically nonsensical articles to "explain" the insane "overlapping generations" crap, and gave an "explanation" of 1914 that was no such thing. Looking back, that method, presenting as fact with zero evidence, goes all the way back to C.T. Russell, he did that lot !

Most of today's J.W's have only experienced this milieu, and so cannot explain 1914 or 1919. or anything else much, they simply refer you to the J.W Web Site, which contains only bullshit "explanations ".

27

Examples of Watchtower flawed interpretation of Bible passages?

by Vanderhoven7 in

asking jehovah’s witnesses to interpret specific passages is a great way to demonstrate their interpretive abuse.

got any clear examples?.

Phizzy

Hi Jeffro !

It must be damned annoying with all the work you put in to your 607 Pages not to have due attribution ! It is downright rude !

I read a bit again of your excellent work and this jumped out of the page at me :

" Taken literally,* the narrative of Daniel chapter 4 provides no reason for the ‘seven times’ to apply to any period other than a lesson of humility for the king of Babylon, Nebuchadnezzar II. The chapter specifically indicates the intended interpretation, and there are no unresolved elements in the story that warrant any additional interpretation."

The realisation of the truth of this was what propelled me in to fully waking up. One day, for no real reason in those days, I decided to sit down and read some of the Bible with no preconceived ideas, no Watchtower Spectacles on, I flipped open my Bible at "Daniel" and when I got to Chapter 4 and read it as never before in my life, exactly what you say above was my conclusion, all of a sudden the J.W org. "teaching", which is of course a House of Cards, tumbled down.

I had awoken ! I then made a study of much more of the J.W "teaching", and within a short time my Default Setting was " if they teach it, it is wrong", that rarely was found wanting !

May I thank you for the excellent work you have done, and for sharing your knowledge on here, You , and others like "Ann O'Malley" helped me understand so much that I was able to confound a very crafty J.W apologist who seemingly had "proof" of the 607 BCE nonsense.

Thank you again for your work, and contributions here, so often you "cut through the crap" and make a salient and very informed point or two where us lesser humans are in error !

107

Trump Tariffs started today, Some Countries Caved in early morning.

by liam in

usa politicians in charge of the economy for the past 50 years were too stupid to understand how the economy works.

this just proves my theory, that an education on the top tier universities just sucks and means nothing in the real world, unless its in the stem education.

for 50 years usa had zero tariffs on other countries.

Phizzy

From Penn Wharton :

"Larger tariffs would also decrease international capital flows, reducing worldwide demand for U.S. Treasuries. This is especially costly under the nation’s current baseline debt path, which is increasing faster than GDP. U.S. households would need to purchase more bonds, requiring bond prices to fall (yields increase), domestic capital investment prices to fall (the marginal product of capital increases), or both. Even conservatively assuming only domestic capital investment prices fall, the reduction in economic activity is more than twice as large as a tax increase on capital returns that raises the same amount of revenue."

From Harvard Business Review :

" But by starting a trade war on all fronts—a 360° trade war—the U.S. may receive global and cumulative blowback, while other countries will only see an impact on their trade with the U.S. Fighting a narrow trade war is not the same as fighting one on all fronts, as the impacts of both supply and demand shocks accumulate. "

20

Chosen

by Gman2001 in

how exactly did jehovah come down to earth in 1919....look around at all the religions....and choose the bible students?

.

Phizzy

According to the J.W org. it was Jesus that did that. There are two problems at least with this totally insane teaching. One is of the date, the other of simple Logic.

As to the time when Jesus is supposed to have done this, it is based upon the orgs. 1914 teaching, which has been totally discredited and debunked from all angles. It really is absolutely wacky.

Hence the choosing by Jesus could NOT have happened.

The second reason, based on logic , was pointed out by Ry Franz in one of his Books that he wrote in the early 1980's. He said, and this is from memory so not word for word , remarking on the part of the orgs. claim that the Rutherford Bible Students of the day were approved because of the "Bible Truth" they were teaching at the time :

" To claim that Jesus chose that group at that time, based upon what they were then teaching, is an Insult to Jesus".

Just a cursory look at what they were teaching then shows you how true that is ! What they taught as "truth" then has all been rejected by THEM since ! Would Jesus select a group teaching lies as "truth" ?.

The problem the org. has is, if Jesus did not then, or ever , choose them , then the Governing Body are :

SELF APPOINTED CHARLATANS !!

22

Why worship a God that does not help!

by Witness 007 in

so god let 10 million people die in world war 2 but was too busy to help....what kind of diety does this!

if i was god i would have done something .

Phizzy

" is this god you are referring to the same one that all these Islamics worship? "

Absolutely ! The YHWH of the Israelites, the jews, Christians and of Islam is the SAME god !

And like all gods, does not exist, and never has, all gods were made up by men.

This particular god is a stark example of that, as we know exactly in History when he was made up, we know which peoples did so, and when he was introduced to the Israelites by those peoples. *

Eventually after a few Centuries he came to be viewed as the only god who should be worshipped.

So , the Thread Title should be "Why worship a god that does not exist ? "

* See the Book "The Early History of God" by Professor Mark. S. Smith.

26

Re: Russell's connection to Masons and Secret Societies

by Enlightened1 in

our history is not what we have been taught.

the golden dawn history.

we see that russell was involved with freemasonry and used freemasonry symbols on his earlier magazines.

Phizzy

Lack of knowledge in other areas has no bearing upon Russell's supposed but unproven "connection" to Freemasonry, or anything else.

23

1/2 of the Jehovah’s witnesses have gone

by hoser in

jw
friends

there are 1/2 of the jehovah’s witnesses that there were 30 years ago in my area.

some have left but i think that many have died and none of their kids stayed being jehovah’s witnesses.

7 congregations have been dissolved over the years.

Phizzy

Thanks Stephane, your perceptive Post, which is so true, has also brought me comfort, in that I have berated myself for not having fully "woken up" earlier in life than I did, but thinking on what you said, your Post describes what happened to me, suppressing Cognitive Dissonance etc. and explains how otherwise very intelligent and well educated ( in matters non-J.W ) people still remain entrapped.

The very important part of your Post is :

That we must not " overlook the sophisticated and manipulative mechanisms that such movements use to maintain control ."

16

What "message" does the J.W Org. have to offer that will attract new members ?

by Phizzy in

the message they have been pushing for 150 years or so is "the end is near !"..

in the educated, civilised world, people think " yea ?

maybe because of economic meltdown exacerbated by climate change, but not from some intervention by a non-existent god".. "would you like a free bible study ?

Phizzy

Van's summary is indeed their teaching in a nutshell, where it belongs, being a "Nutty" message !

Van said "But if they kill themselves before the GT starts, they will get an automatic resurrection pass to paradise where they will learn Jehovah’s Witnesses were right all along."

So, really the best thing J.W's could do for people is take a hand-gun to the door and shoot the Householder in the head ? LOL.

And that the "J.W's were right all along" will happen, is a very prevalent belief among the R&F J.W's, I heard that many times, and can remember doubting it at the beginning of my "Waking Up".

And yes Biahi, "Join or Die" is even more succinct ! But of course, that has been the message of all Looney fringe Christian groups, for many long decades, hence the Cartoons with "The End is Nigh" etc. Again, not a message that will attract new converts, here in the U.K if people are told that, even wrapped up in J.W speak, they think, and sometimes say, " Oh F*** Off !".

29

Special Talk just prior to the Memorial

by Acluetofindtheuser in

is the sunday special talk prior to the memorial just an introduction of a new outline for the sunday public talks?.

is it an attempt to get the faders back to the meetings?

they present in a way like some new light is going to be presented at the special talk..

Phizzy

" The only thing "special" about a "special" talk is that ...it never is special." :smile:

True that ! I only once or twice in all the years I attended heard a "Special" talk that was well presented by a talented speaker, but even then the content was just a big nothing.

It will no doubt be the same with the "Special" Talk announced for September, but the timing of that makes me wonder if they are perhaps about to slip something in, a bit of "Noo Lite" ?

If those Talks are "special" what the actual f*** does that make the weekly ones ?

As per my Thread about "What Do They Have.... " The truth is they have no message, and nothing new to offer.

16

What "message" does the J.W Org. have to offer that will attract new members ?

by Phizzy in

the message they have been pushing for 150 years or so is "the end is near !"..

in the educated, civilised world, people think " yea ?

maybe because of economic meltdown exacerbated by climate change, but not from some intervention by a non-existent god".. "would you like a free bible study ?

Phizzy

I understand r51785, when my Country, the U.K, is criticised in any way my immediate reaction is to bristle, and yet I have never been nationalistic or even proud of my Country, but I then consider what the criticism is saying, and if valid, will smile ruefully and move on.

What strikes me about the lack of any "message" is that the G.B and their advisors have run out of ideas.

What this does is leave ordinary J.W's " marking time", literally to satisfy their Elders, but metaphorically, they must be aware on some level that the D to D work, and more so the Cart Work, are a Total Waste of Time, that they are merely doing what they do to be "seen" in public.

It is the equivalent of the False Policeman , a figure or image of a Policeman, to make people think, but there is no real Policeman for miles, and the "work" they do is as soul destroying as peeling piles of potatoes day after day.

Combine that pointless, stultifying work with boring Meetings, and they have no way of attracting new members in any significant number, and J.W's will either die waiting for "The End", or more likely die before that .......... of Frustration and Boredom.