Posts by tornapart

70

Reaching Loved Ones Stuck in a Cult: An Idea for Discussion

by 00DAD in

you may have heard the expression: "the map is not the territory.

" have you ever thought about how this idea may help you reach your loved ones stuck in a cult?

the phrase has been attributed to polish-american scientist and philosopher alfred korzybski.

tornapart

I think I've tried all angles.. Mormons, Amish.. questions, arguements, I try to keep from being attacking as I know that doesn't work. Dropping questions every now and again works the best for me. The best I can say I've got so far is acceptance from them that I no longer believe it all, even if I have to keep it up. If I stop they start thinking I'm 'coming back'.. that's never going to happen. I'm constantly trying to think of new things that might work.

87

JW tour bus crashes in Florida, with fatalities-

by moshe in

miami - a bus carrying 32 members of a church group hit a concrete overpass at miami international airport after the driver got lost, killing two elderly people on board and leaving three others critically injured, officials said saturday.. the large, white bus was too tall for the 8-foot-6-inch entrance to the arrivals area, said airport spokesman greg chin.

buses are supposed to go through the departures area, which has a higher ceiling, he said.. chin said the passengers told him they were part of a group of jehovah's witnesses headed to west palm beach.

police said in a news release that the group had chartered the bus to take them to a church convention there-.

tornapart

I feel so sad when i read of something like this. I also feel very sad when I hear some say that basically other JWs have no heart or compassion when things like this happen. When I suffered a personal tragedy several years ago I had wonderful support. Congregations are made up of human beings who are quite capable of showing love, sympathy and compassion as in any other community. My heart goes out to these families.

34

The Governing Body Rewrites the Organizations Past and Future History

by Cameron_Don in

jw
friends

watchtower annual meeting report.

october 6, 2012. during their annual meeting the governing body announced some changes in their interpretation of (1) the most important scripture in watch-tower theology, and (2) the most important event in watchtower history.

are their changes new light according to proverbs, or refinement according to daniel and malachi?

tornapart

Just finished reading your book for the second time Don. It's excellent and gets straight to the heart of why everything is so very wrong. I believe it's a must read for every JW asking questions.

And yes, I picked up on that point too about their 'future appointment'. Your comments on it are really interesting...

http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/beliefs/239889/1/Will-Don-Cameron-have-to-write-a-new-book

17

The three definitions of apostasy

by cedars in

i've just uploaded a new article to my website answering the question: "is jwsurvey.org an apostate website?".

here is the link:.

http://jwsurvey.org/cedars-blog/is-jwsurvey-org-an-apostate-website.

tornapart

Excellent as always Cedars and I particularly liked your illustration of if Russell and Rutherford came back and refused to accept current teachings.. I must remember that one!

125

Music of the 60's ... Peace Love and Understanding

by Finkelstein in

retrospectively looking back at some the music that was being produced during .

the 60's, 70's and even in the 1950's there really was a lot of good music without the.

entailing commercial visual hype that so apparent in popular music today.. this was of course pre music videos, the music had to stand on its own to create its own public appeal.. whats some of the music that you fondly remember all you baby boomers ?

tornapart

Rolling Stones and still going strong......

529

Analysis of anti-607 BCE Rebuttals

by Ethos in

i agreed yesterday to engage in the '607' topic.

i've read numerous threads and am well aware that this topic has been addressed and dissected quite thoroughly.

therefore, if you are uninterested in participating, that's fine.

tornapart

Actually, I want to thank Ethos for this thread because it's made me re-check everything and made me even more convinced of the WT's wrong teaching and now I will go away and start reading 'Gentile Times Rediscovered' again.

For lurking JWs who are still not sure here are some good links again...

http://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/607-1914.php

http://www.jwstruggle.com/2010/12/when-did-jerusalem-fall/

http://www.jwstudies.com/babylonian_captivity.html

and to show I'm not totally biased and have looked at both sides of the argument, here's an apologist's effort...

http://www.jehovahsjudgment.co.uk/607/

27

Analysis of anti-607 BCE Rebuttals

by Ethos in

i agreed yesterday to engage in the '607' topic.

i've read numerous threads and am well aware that this topic has been addressed and dissected quite thoroughly.

therefore, if you are uninterested in participating, that's fine.

tornapart

According to historical records Josiah was killed in 609BCE. His son Jehoiakim became a vassal king, first to Egypt and then to Babylon, paying a tribute. During that time exiles (including Daniel and other princes and noble were taken captive to Babylon and including the temple being ransacked and it's utensils being taken). (2 Chor 36:1-8) This was long before Jerusalem was destroyed. There were 221/2 years from Josiah's death to Jerusalem being destroyed. (2 Chor 36:2,5,911) This period of time could easily be called a time of servitude under the the rule of Babylon.

Also JJ (Ray Publisher) wrote a very good piece after his research on this subject a couple of years ago and most of his evidence was found in the WT publications and the bible itself to show that 607BCE for the fall of Jerusalem is impossible.

http://www.jwstruggle.com/2010/12/when-did-jerusalem-fall

54

Celebrating Christmas?????

by DATA-DOG in

i am just curious, and not judging.

if you are a christian and you know that december 25th is not jesus' birthday, and may have pagan roots, then why celebrate it?

i was raised a dub as most of you know, and have learned the ttatt so i know how wrong they are about a lot.

tornapart

I wouldn't celebrate myself but I did read an article by an ex JW who decided to and found it quite interesting. The fact that Jesus birth was celebrated by angels at the time. It was a joyous occasion and then later gifts brought for him by the magi to again celebrate the birth of a king. The pagan aspect was brought in by Constantine after he became christian to keep his pagan people happy. Christmas could still be celebrated without keeping all the pagan symbols related to it, just as a simple family celebration of a joyous occasion. As for the date not being known, in this country our Queen has two birthdays one real one and one official one, (one is in April the other in June). I think though that maybe it has gone full circle. It started off as a pagan celebration, then Jesus birth became inextricably linked with it, now people who don't even believe in God or Jesus celebrate it. So what is the 'real' christmas?

38

JW Interracial Couples

by Iamallcool in

jw
friends

i was thinking about some interracial jw couples that chose each other because they do not have alot of choices like finding someone in their own race in the religion, i have been seeing alot more jw interracial couples lately.

have you noticed them in your area?

don't get me wrong.

tornapart

I know quite a few mixed race marriages in my part of the UK. To be honest it's no big deal, no one thinks anything of it. Racial differences are a bit meaningless here. It always surprises me when I see what a big thing is made of it. Nobody seems to care what colour someone else is here, why should it matter?