Posts by tornapart

Just want to clarify what I meant by not thinking activism works. I didn't mean it doesn't work at all, just that it doesn't work with JWs who are completely under the mind control of the WTS.

Once someone starts to have any kind of doubt, it's great to have something in place to read, look at, watch etc! Kudos to all those who have websites, blogs, forums, video channels etc. that have helped all of us in one way or another!

178

Honest survey question on effectiveness of 'apostacy'

by Simon in

jw
friends

it seems like lots of people have big dreams of 'destroying the watchtower'.

it's usually linked to a story of how they were wronged and want some revenge.

do these 'in your face' attempts to convince people that the truth isn't the truth really have an effect?.

tornapart

I don't think activism really works. Put the info out there and let people come to it of their own accord. Trying to 'bring down' the WTS is never going to work.

Strong JWs will never read 'apostate' literature, watch 'apostate' videos. or chat to them outside a convention. I'm fully out mentally and I recognised some (from their youtube videos), waiting outside the convention. Even I didn't have the nerve to engage them, as I was with friends.

I think they are all stepping stones. A JW begins to have doubts, maybe over many years that he forces down or to the back of his mind. Then one day there is just one too many. This happened to me...

The 'overlapping generation' was that one too many. However for a year and a half after hearing it, I kept it to the back of my mind. I still wouldn't look at anything 'apostate' on the internet. What I did look at was Wikipedia. I found out about Ray Franz, my curiosity was piqued. 'There won't be any harm in reading his book' I thought, 'no one need know'. I couldn't get it through the post for fear of being discovered but I found a pdf. I read it and the rest is history. After that I had no problem reading JWfacts. I found JWstruggle and became friends with JJ...Eric (RayPublisher on here). Found a few more friends, found this place and started posting. I've watched many youtube videos, some I find thought provoking, others just seem to be a rant, which just turns me off completely. To my mind, the most effective are the ones done with respect, intelligence and thought.

The ones whose attention needs to be grabbed are not the hard line dyed-in-the-wool JWs, but the ones with doubts who are looking for answers. The gentler the approach, the more effectiveness it will have.

97

First post

by thedog1 in

jw
friends

this is a very strange thing for me to do.

i have been an active witness for over 25 years.

i currently serve as an elder and i conduct the watchtower study.

tornapart

Welcome thedog1.. I too found the overlapping generation difficult to understand and it was the beginning of the end for me. I still go to meetings, my hubby is an elder and he takes the WT sometimes. He knows a lot of my doubts and finds many things difficult to comprehend himself but still believes it's God's organisation. He too uses the phrase 'the current understanding is'.. if he doesn't go along with it himself. I've known 'The truth about the truth' for two years now and am on #8 (leaving quietly's list). It does get harder and harder as each month goes by. I hope you can continue to write here to get some support.

58

"Jesus is My Boyfriend" Christianity

by cofty in

there is a trend in modern evangelical, charismatic and "non-religious spirituality" that gets dangerously close to erotic love of jesus.. it's something that i first observed during my christian years especially in the lyrics of christian songs and sometimes during open-prayer times.

if you haven't experienced open prayer you are the lucky ones.

everybody adopts the shampoo position - elbows on knees, head in hands - and whoever is "moved by the spirit" speaks up for a while, followed by an awkward silence, followed by two people speaking up at the same time, followed by silence, and so on.. anyway back to the topic, here are a few random examples .... "lord i give you my heart.

tornapart

Cofty.. I liked Band's description of you... our loveable but demonic atheist... LOL

23

Are Most of the Witnesses That You Know Of Die Hard JWs?

by minimus in

jw
friends

i think the remaining ones left are kool-aid drinkers and virtually brain dead..

tornapart

The ones I see just seem to be totally weary, trying their best but never feeling good enough. They don't feel there's anywhere else to go.

Btw.. a knacker's yard is where dead horses end up for dog meat.

There is another usage for the word but I don't think it's relevant here. And I'm not going to say... LOL

51

Advise needed please

by EdenOne in

dear forumites, i need your advise please.. i would like to write a letter to the world headquarters of the jehovah's witnesses regarding a subject that i've published an article recently.

i would like to draw the attention of the gb to said article, which i will send in print form (therefore, no attention would be drawn to the website where it was published).. naturally, because i am a jehovah's witness in good standing in the congregation and what i'll be discussing in my letter will be a dissenting view from the official doctrine/practice, i want to protect my identity and i don't want to be harassed by elders or subjected to any sort of judicial investigation.

nevertheless, i would be very interested in reading their response (if any) to my letter.. how can i do that?

tornapart

Eden, could you just send it anyway? Without any hope of a reply. It's a good article and who knows, there just may be another 'Ray Franz' in there willing to put his head on the block.

51

Advise needed please

by EdenOne in

dear forumites, i need your advise please.. i would like to write a letter to the world headquarters of the jehovah's witnesses regarding a subject that i've published an article recently.

i would like to draw the attention of the gb to said article, which i will send in print form (therefore, no attention would be drawn to the website where it was published).. naturally, because i am a jehovah's witness in good standing in the congregation and what i'll be discussing in my letter will be a dissenting view from the official doctrine/practice, i want to protect my identity and i don't want to be harassed by elders or subjected to any sort of judicial investigation.

nevertheless, i would be very interested in reading their response (if any) to my letter.. how can i do that?

tornapart

Could you send it by e-mail using Abine's 'Mask Me'?

16

What kind of books do you like to read?

by tornapart in

jw
friends

when i was younger i enjoyed reading thrillers.

i've always enjoyed reading history books, particularly of my own country.

these days i enjoy reading books from the best seller list.

tornapart

Thanks everyone, some really interesting replies!

@NY- I would like to read a book like that, I've not read much about American history. Perhaps I should start with him.

@likeabird- Yes, those are definitely the kind of books I like too.

@Giordano- I've read The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich. Amongst a few others about WWII. One of the books about that era that gripped me was 'I Cannot Forgive' by Rudolph Vrba. He was a young Slovakian Jew who managed to survive for quite a long time in Auschwitz and finally escaped with a detailed report of what the Nazis had planned for the Hungarian Jews. An incredible story.

@bohm+FLN- I'll have to look that book out!

@Hortenzie- I've been wanting to read some good books on early christianity from a purely historical point of view. I'll keep that one in mind.

@Hortensia- I like mysteries but I have to admit that science books leave me cold! LOL If I want to learn anything about science I try and read articles, or else watch some good documentaries instead. I'm thinking about getting a tablet soon. I guess I'd be able to use that as an ereader too wouldn't I?

@TOTH- I've read a little about Marcus Aurelius. I think his philosophy on life is actually quite modern isn't it?

97

I like you more if you are literratte

by usualusername in

jw
friends

as a daily visitor of this site i am shocked by how judgemental i am.. .

if someone makes a valid point but does not spell well it colours my judgement.. .

if someone who is a clown has excellent grammar i give them leeway.. as an aside i am a gramaphobe.. .

tornapart

The one thing I don't like though, is when someone writes in 'text speak'. Some people are used to writing and reading it but for lots of others it is very difficult to comprehend.