Boy, that's bad...."...you'll get no argument from anyone."
peacefulpete
JoinedPosts by peacefulpete
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47
Acts 20: 28 Corruption in the NWT
by Sea Breeze inhere's how this verse should read: .
take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the holy ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of god, which he hath purchased with his own blood.
- kjvhere's how it reads in the nwt: pay attention to yourselves and to all the flock, among which the holy spirit has appointed you overseers, to shepherd the congregation of god, which he purchased with the blood of his own son.. here is how it reads in the kjv with the greek keyed to strong's: take heedg4337 thereforeg3767 unto yourselves,g1438 andg2532 to allg3956 theg3588 flock,g4168 overg1722 the whichg3739 theg3588 holyg40 ghostg4151 hath madeg5087 youg5209 overseers,g1985 to feedg4165 theg3588 churchg1577 of god,g2316 whichg3739 he hath purchasedg4046 withg1223 his owng2398 blood.g129 .
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Acts 20: 28 Corruption in the NWT
by Sea Breeze inhere's how this verse should read: .
take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the holy ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of god, which he hath purchased with his own blood.
- kjvhere's how it reads in the nwt: pay attention to yourselves and to all the flock, among which the holy spirit has appointed you overseers, to shepherd the congregation of god, which he purchased with the blood of his own son.. here is how it reads in the kjv with the greek keyed to strong's: take heedg4337 thereforeg3767 unto yourselves,g1438 andg2532 to allg3956 theg3588 flock,g4168 overg1722 the whichg3739 theg3588 holyg40 ghostg4151 hath madeg5087 youg5209 overseers,g1985 to feedg4165 theg3588 churchg1577 of god,g2316 whichg3739 he hath purchasedg4046 withg1223 his owng2398 blood.g129 .
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peacefulpete
If you are arguing that the NWT, being it claims to be a fairly literal translation, ought to have put 'son' in brackets, no gets no argument from anyone.
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Acts 20: 28 Corruption in the NWT
by Sea Breeze inhere's how this verse should read: .
take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the holy ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of god, which he hath purchased with his own blood.
- kjvhere's how it reads in the nwt: pay attention to yourselves and to all the flock, among which the holy spirit has appointed you overseers, to shepherd the congregation of god, which he purchased with the blood of his own son.. here is how it reads in the kjv with the greek keyed to strong's: take heedg4337 thereforeg3767 unto yourselves,g1438 andg2532 to allg3956 theg3588 flock,g4168 overg1722 the whichg3739 theg3588 holyg40 ghostg4151 hath madeg5087 youg5209 overseers,g1985 to feedg4165 theg3588 churchg1577 of god,g2316 whichg3739 he hath purchasedg4046 withg1223 his owng2398 blood.g129 .
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peacefulpete
The so-called “surprise” about the Holy Spirit’s active role in the appointment of overseers is....
What I said was, it was surprising that in the endless debate with Jws to interpret the last phrase of the passage, there is a silence about the animate role assigned the Holy Spirit. Your AI needs to read more carefully. The animate and semiautonomous roles of the Holy Spirit in Christian writings is a refinement of earlier roles assigned God's spirit, Name, Prescence, Angel, Wisdom or the Logos. Even as early as in Is. 63:9-11 (5th-4th century BCE) we find an 'Angel of his Presence' apparently also described as his 'Holy Spirit" being 'grieved'. These agents or hypostases of God are God but at the same time serve God.
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Acts 20: 28 Corruption in the NWT
by Sea Breeze inhere's how this verse should read: .
take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the holy ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of god, which he hath purchased with his own blood.
- kjvhere's how it reads in the nwt: pay attention to yourselves and to all the flock, among which the holy spirit has appointed you overseers, to shepherd the congregation of god, which he purchased with the blood of his own son.. here is how it reads in the kjv with the greek keyed to strong's: take heedg4337 thereforeg3767 unto yourselves,g1438 andg2532 to allg3956 theg3588 flock,g4168 overg1722 the whichg3739 theg3588 holyg40 ghostg4151 hath madeg5087 youg5209 overseers,g1985 to feedg4165 theg3588 churchg1577 of god,g2316 whichg3739 he hath purchasedg4046 withg1223 his owng2398 blood.g129 .
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peacefulpete
The grammar is somewhat ambiguous and as anyone who has researched it knows, translators have read the phrase through the theological lens they subscribe to. Some object to 'God' having blood, without qualifying it as belonging to the Christ man aspect of God and so render substantively. The JWs also object on the ground of denying the divinity of Christ whose blood purchases the flock. Others have no issue with reading the phrase attributively with the assumption that readers are clever enough to recognize the Christ aspect of God was referred to. Acts 20:28 - Bible Gateway
What is rather surprising is the silence regarding the Holy Spirit being said to have done the appointing of overseers over God's church that was purchased with Christ's blood. However you wish to translate the last phrase, the writer is clearly assigning animate roles to 3 characters. No, this is not the Trinity, it is a rather clear expression of belief in divine agency (aka Second Power theology) manifest in multiple powerful figures.
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The Deficient Theism of the Watchtower
by aqwsed12345 in"for my thoughts are not your thoughts, nor are your ways my ways, says the lord.
for as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts.
" (isaiah 55:8-9).
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peacefulpete
To 'know all possible futures available for humans to choose...but set up reality in such a way that allows freedom' is self-contradictory. You are saying he rigged the game to achieve an outcome that resulted from free choice. It also burdens this God with the consequences of his actions. The 'reality he set up' is responsible for trillions of deaths from predation and disease and hundreds of billions of human deaths from disease old age and war. Not a great God.
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The Deficient Theism of the Watchtower
by aqwsed12345 in"for my thoughts are not your thoughts, nor are your ways my ways, says the lord.
for as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts.
" (isaiah 55:8-9).
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peacefulpete
Slim.....boiled down that essentially means God chose to create a reality that he does not fully control or understand. Not philosophically satisfying but relatable.
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The Deficient Theism of the Watchtower
by aqwsed12345 in"for my thoughts are not your thoughts, nor are your ways my ways, says the lord.
for as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts.
" (isaiah 55:8-9).
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peacefulpete
You've done a good job outlining the history of the God concept. The ironic part of it is as God became transcendent he became distant. When the Greeks closed philosophical loopholes through esoteric terminology, actual belief in God became an intellectual exercise. Few humans like exercise. This was the driving reason for the popularity of 'Second Power' agents. God needed someone through which to interact with a creation so fundamentally different from himself. Those agents, had limits, were more approachable intellectually and could be described. Effectively, 'Jesus' was a counter reaction to the transcendence imposed on the God of the OT. God could be understood by non-philosophers again. Those who crave a god, crave one that 'gets them' and they 'get him'. God as a fully matured concept is burdened by the need to be something people can't relate with. Modern people, just the same as those living 2000 years ago, might intellectualize about God being the 'essence of being' but deep-down prefer the anthropomorphic God.
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Road to Emmaus?
by peacefulpete ini'll again keep this a brief post.
earlier i posted that jesus, like the ot patriarch jacob "rolled away the massive stone" to release water for his sheep, (jacob and the rock'n rollers).
“surely the lord is in this place, and i was not aware of it.” .
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peacefulpete
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Road to Emmaus?
by peacefulpete ini'll again keep this a brief post.
earlier i posted that jesus, like the ot patriarch jacob "rolled away the massive stone" to release water for his sheep, (jacob and the rock'n rollers).
“surely the lord is in this place, and i was not aware of it.” .
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peacefulpete
I'll again keep this a brief post.
Earlier I posted that Jesus, like the OT patriarch Jacob "rolled away the massive stone" to release water for his sheep, (Jacob and the Rock'n Rollers). Soon thereafter, according to Luke 24, he makes an appearance as a stranger to 2 of his followers on the road to Emmaus. When they arrive in the village at nightfall, he gives them bread and they immediately recognize the stranger as the Lord.
A familiar story. However, there are some interesting variants preserved in the Codex Bezae. Notable is the name of the village. It is not 'Emmaus' but 'Oulammaous' in the Bezae. This name appears only once...in the LXX version of Genesis 28; the location where Jacob stops at nightfall while fleeing his brother after betraying his father's trust with a 'kiss' and lies. It is here that Jacob sees the Lord (or the "Word" of the Lord ,Memra in the Aramaic Targum). Jacob says,
“Surely the Lord is in this place, and I was not aware of it.”
He then says;
"If the Lord God will be with me, and guard me throughout on this journey, on which I am going, and give me bread to eat,...then shall the Lord be for a God to me."
There are actually many literary connections linking the Genesis Jacob story and Gospels.
So, what then explains the "Emmaus" in the Alexandrian Textual forms? First some background. The two words/names are not related and have nothing in common other than sounding kind of, somewhat similar. As I mentioned Oulammaous is the LXX name for the village where Jacob engages with the Word/Lord. The word itself was a mistranslation of the Hebrew [ulam luz] i.e.. "formerly Luz". The place in the story was formerly named 'Luz' but Jacob renamed it 'Bethel' because of his engaging with God there. The Hebrew, "formerly Luz" was mistaken by the translators of the LXX as being the name and bingo the village was now called Oulammaous. (The “L” in Luz was changed to a second “M” following common phonetic practice) This LXX form of the story was the most widely known in the first century and this is certainly the form the writer of Luke used and surprisingly preserved in the Codex Bezae.
What apparently happened is that early Christain scribes were unaware of the LXX Jacob connection and assumed the Oulammaous they saw in Luke was a scribal error or some variation of the city 'Emmaus'.
The manuscripts are split on the distance to Jerusalem from this village. Some say 60 stadia (about 7 miles) some say 160 (about 19 miles). Emmaus was about 160 stadia whereas Luz was closer, about 90 stadia. (there are many different distances found on the internet so I mention the most commonly repeated) This discrepancy might be explained easily as unfamiliarity with the region, but some understand that 60 to be a symbolic distance. 10 times the distance lawful to travel on the Sabbath (6 stadia per Josephus). The likely change to 160 stadia shows an awareness of a problem identifying Emmaus as the intended setting. But this then strains the narrative of the two guys walking that distance and possibly back in a day. (vss13,29)
Notably, the added conclusion to Mark (longer ending) attempts to harmonize Mark with Luke through the inclusion of this road to Emmaus story. However, the author, likely aware of the issue, avoided the name and simply said 'road to the country'.
So, to sum up, among the many OT stories that were brilliantly sourced for the Gospels, we have those from Genesis involving Jacob, that highly revered patriarch that met God on the road to Luz. Ironically this allusion might have been missed had it not been for a scribal error in the LXX that was incorporated into Luke when crafting his reenactment/rewriting of the Jacob story.
Now you know what the author of Luke meant when he wrote:
And beginning with Moses and all the Prophets, he explained to them what was said in all the Scriptures concerning himself. (24:27)
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SPIMI Friend Asked Me For The Name Of My (FORMER) Congregation
by HiddlesWife ina present-spimi friend texted me to ask me the name of my congregation--which is my former and last one that i left right after becoming completely/presently pomo.
she was a longtime buddy, who was pimq-pimo-ppimi-on-occasion for many decades.
then shortly before the pandemic, she was dating a brother who was reaching out to become an ms [mind you, this guy was a mic-handler for several decades as well--until an older brother (who was a close friend of his uncle--who converted him into the cultporation years ago--encouraged him to the point of harrassing him to move up the wt corporate ladder🙄😤].
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peacefulpete
Be kind, be polite, ask about her life, make new friends