Posts by peacefulpete

6

Ebion

by peacefulpete in

early christianity was every bit, if not more, diverse than christianity today.

one of the very early sects was named the ebionites.

we have unfortunately nothing left of their own writings apart from a few quotes from what epiphanius believed was their recension of matthew.

peacefulpete

To illustrate the problem of accepting early Christian writers as historically sound, notice that Irenaeus retells a story/legend about Cerinthus:

There are also those who heard from him that John, the disciple of the Lord, going to bathe at Ephesus, and perceiving Cerinthus within, rushed out of the bath-house without bathing, exclaiming, Let us fly, lest even the bath-house fall down, because Cerinthus, the enemy of the truth, is within.

Against Heresies, 3.3.4

It is pretty obvious that the story posted earlier featuring the imaginary Ebion was a retelling of this legend about Cerinthus.

3

Jacob and the Rock'n Rollers

by peacefulpete in

somehow i had never noticed a detail in the jacob at the well story.

gen 29 (lxx).

1 and jacob started and went to the land of the east to laban, the son of bathuel the syrian, and the brother of rebecca, mother of jacob and esau.2 and he looks, and behold!

peacefulpete

Somehow I had never noticed a detail in the Jacob at the well story.

Gen 29 (LXX)

1 And Jacob started and went to the land of the east to Laban, the son of Bathuel the Syrian, and the brother of Rebecca, mother of Jacob and Esau.
2 And he looks, and behold! a well in the plain; and there were there three flocks of sheep resting at it, for out of that well they watered the flocks, but there was a great stone (megas lithos) at the mouth of the well.
3 And there were all the flocks gathered, and they used to roll away the stone from the mouth of the well, and water the flocks, and set the stone again in its place on the mouth of the well.
4 And Jacob said to them, Brethren, whence are ye? and they said, We are of Charrhan.
5 And he said to them, Know ye Laban, the son of Nachor? and they said, We do know .
6 And he said to them, Is he well? And they said, He is well. And behold Rachel his daughter came with the sheep.
7 And Jacob said, it is yet high day, it is not yet time that the flocks be gathered together; water ye the flocks, and depart and feed them.
8 And they said, We shall not be able, until all the shepherds be gathered together, and they shall roll away the stone from the mouth of the well, then we will water the flocks.
9 While he was yet speaking to them, behold, Rachel the daughter of Laban came with her father's sheep, for she fed the sheep of her father.
10 And it came to pass when Jacob saw Rachel the daughter of Laban, his mother's brother, and the sheep of Laban, his mother's brother, that Jacob came and rolled away the stone from the mouth of the well, and watered the sheep of Laban, his mother's brother.

I never noticed this little heroic tale before. Here Jacob upon seeing Rachel is able to perform a superhuman feat of rolling away a great stone that otherwise took many ordinary men to move.

Stones (as interpreted at least) are loaded with symbolism in the Bible. Ancient Sages and Rabbis often thought of these individual stories of stones collectively. In a sense they all meant something identifying Israel(Jacob) as a people with a shared experience. The very same stone was believed to have literarily moved from story to story. The stone even eventually became the foundation of the Temple.

Water likewise is theologically loaded. The Torah (Law) was thought to be symbolized by the water from the well Jacob opened by rolling away the great stone.

With stones having rich symbolism, it is not surprising the Gospel plays on that as well. Jesus is famously called 'the living stone' and the foundational 'cornerstone of God's Temple' aka 'the rock that followed them'. Even in the resurrection story (Mark 16:3,4) the 'great stone' (megas lithos) is rolled away from the tomb to release Jesus' waters of life. When the women arrive at the tomb the stone had been rolled away and Jesus gone.

Again, I find a masterful reuse of OT imagery and symbolism in the Gospel stories.

The revisor known as Matt added yet another 'great earthquake' (he liked earthquakes) to the scene and for some reason felt the need to say an 'angel of the Lord had rolled away the stone'. I suspect he was playing off the role angels were said to play in the giving of the Torah but then again he might have just felt something was missing from Mark's bare-bones narrative. I wonder though if he missed the Marcan parallelism, that superhuman Jesus, like his typological progenitor Jacob, rolled the stone (himself) away himself.

13

"JEHOVAH'S" witnesses: How could WE get the name so wrong????

by BoogerMan in

the "slave's" understanding of the scriptures must be correct, so here's a clarification: ©.

(matthew 10:18) ....before governors and kings for jehovah's sake, for a witness..... (mark 13:9) ...be put on the stand......for jehovah's sake, for a witness to them.

(luke 24:47, 48) .

peacefulpete

deleted

10

The Big Secret

by finishedmystery in

when the gb brought a formal end to all the type/antitypes in so many ways it could be said that they brought the religion to an end.

the other sheep/anointed teaching that leads to a two class religion was originally based on two antitypes--the jehu/jehonadab relationship and something about the cities of refuge.

in that 2014 annual meeting talk david splane even specifically stated that the cities of refuge has no antitype.

peacefulpete

I think the fact that certain present GB members are not comfortable with certain specific predictions using the type/antitype model must be put in perspective. They have not abandoned the method in reality and are free to revisit anything said that leads you to believe they did. In the very article (May 2024) that backed away from some specific predictions, they still retained the type/antitype method of interpretation throughout.

The doctrinal changes reflect the views of someone/s dominant in the group, not some new paradigm of interpretation.

Christianity is at its core a typological reinterpretation of the OT. There is no Christianity without imagined 'parallels' and prophetic 'dual applications'.

106

Trump Tariffs started today, Some Countries Caved in early morning.

by liam in

usa politicians in charge of the economy for the past 50 years were too stupid to understand how the economy works.

this just proves my theory, that an education on the top tier universities just sucks and means nothing in the real world, unless its in the stem education.

for 50 years usa had zero tariffs on other countries.

peacefulpete

The only country that has spilt it's blood for America & would do so again is Britain..

I'm glad there is some goodwill for America left.

I almost laughed out loud, he paused most of the tariffs again....chaos

I guess enough leaders were 'kissing my ass"........

Maybe you Brits have more experience with this sort of thing....King George III.....or maybe Lear?

213

The point of existence and how it refutes the Trinity

by slimboyfat in

rowan williams, the former archbishop of canterbury gave an interesting answer to the somewhat stark question, what’s the point of us existing?

as a christian, my starting point is that we exist because the most fundamental form of activity, energy, call it what you like, that is there, is love.

that is, it’s a willingness that the other should be.

peacefulpete

Many years ago I posted a thread about the 'name' Jesus and whether originally the name "Jesus" wasn't understood typologically, that is, the name was honorific or symbolic. This would make a great deal of sense. In Matthew, the writer/redactor used a strange parallelism in which two names are given for the boy, both are 'prophetic' but one name sticks while the other is never repeated.

21 She will give birth to a son, and you are to give him the name Jesus, because he will save his people from their sins.”
22 All this took place to fulfill what the Lord had said through the prophet: 23 “The virgin will conceive and give birth to a son, and they will call him Immanuel” (which means “God with us”).

It seems likely to me that at some early stage the name 'Jesus' like 'Immanuel" was understood as honorific but through the process of historization it became literalized. The typological significance of the name Jesus is often overlooked. I just posted on another old thread how Joshua (LXX Jesus) was identified with the NT Jesus in the Baptism/Jordan river scene. Joshuah the warrior (and High Priest in Zechariah) was elevated to a Messianic name. What the Joshua could/should have accomplished the new 'Joshua' would.

106

Trump Tariffs started today, Some Countries Caved in early morning.

by liam in

usa politicians in charge of the economy for the past 50 years were too stupid to understand how the economy works.

this just proves my theory, that an education on the top tier universities just sucks and means nothing in the real world, unless its in the stem education.

for 50 years usa had zero tariffs on other countries.

peacefulpete

Joey..The national debt is caused by government outspending revenues. It not due to trade deficits. The solution is a reduction in spending when possible, without creating an environment of austerity, (which triggers further loss of revenue), OR raising revenue. Again, that needs to be done so as to not trigger a drop in spending. Tax rates returned to the Kennedy/Nixon era would resolve the issue gradually, but neither party has the balls to do it.

Returning to top tax rates that existed when "America was great", letting the Trump "Tax Cuts and Jobs Act" expire, including restoring the Alternative Minimum Tax thresholds could raise an additional trillion dollars in revenue without low to middle income Americans being negatively affected.

Raising the SS tax rate by .2% or changing the earnings cap from $160K to $1 million dollars/ year would address the projected shortfall. Either are estimated to result in about a trillion dollars over 10 years. Presently Elon Musk pays all his SS taxes within minutes of every new year. I think he could afford to pay for an hour or so.

106

Trump Tariffs started today, Some Countries Caved in early morning.

by liam in

usa politicians in charge of the economy for the past 50 years were too stupid to understand how the economy works.

this just proves my theory, that an education on the top tier universities just sucks and means nothing in the real world, unless its in the stem education.

for 50 years usa had zero tariffs on other countries.

peacefulpete

I didn't read all that went before on this thread but even before the election there were efforts to educate people about what 'trade deficits' are and what they are not.

Before I go to the hardware store and buy a new saw, I compare prices, convenience and quality with other stores. I might even factor in my liking the owner or desire to buy local. When I decide where to buy, it is not done with the expectation that that store reciprocate and buy something from me. I make sauerkraut. It's probably not something they want, and even if they did, I might not be the best option to buy from.

I now have a trade deficit with the hardware store. Did the store rip me off or take advantage of me? No.

A wealthy man buys more goods than I do. He may not make anything but earns his living as a doctor. has he been taken more advantage of or ripped off more because of his buying what he wants from the best supplier? No.

In simplest terms, when a wealthy nation has a trade deficit, it is evidence of a mature prospering postindustrial economy, not a crime.

When America buys luxury vanilla extract from the poor nation of Madagascar, they are not expected to match that purchase in computer tech or soybeans they don't need. They are already competing with Mexico and a dozen other suppliers and working on small margins. Because Madagascar sells us more that the poor country can buy from us, they have been hit with a 47% tariff on their goods. Your vanilla just became even more a luxury and imports from the island are almost certain to fall off dramatically, impoverishing their economy further when their crime was having a less diversified economy and being poor.

The richest nations of the world all have trade deficits with certain nations and that is normal and healthy free market economics.

Every nation makes their own policy, some are better than others. Some are based upon ignorance. Usually the damage is limited, but when the largest economy in the world makes dumb policy, the damage can be global.

213

The point of existence and how it refutes the Trinity

by slimboyfat in

rowan williams, the former archbishop of canterbury gave an interesting answer to the somewhat stark question, what’s the point of us existing?

as a christian, my starting point is that we exist because the most fundamental form of activity, energy, call it what you like, that is there, is love.

that is, it’s a willingness that the other should be.

peacefulpete

Duran...what is the Lamb’s name, and what is the Father’s name?

The 'Lamb' has many names, the Father as well. The writer of Revelation, for quick example, tells his readers that the Rider of the white horse has a number of names, including a secret one.

11 I saw heaven standing open and there before me was a white horse, whose rider is called Faithful and True. With justice he judges and wages war. 12 His eyes are like blazing fire, and on his head are many crowns. He has a name written on him that no one knows but he himself. 13 He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and his name is the Word of God. 14 The armies of heaven were following him, riding on white horses and dressed in fine linen, white and clean. 15 Coming out of his mouth is a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations. “He will rule them with an iron scepter.”[a] He treads the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God Almighty. 16 On his robe and on his thigh he has a name written: King of Kings and Lord of Lords.

213

The point of existence and how it refutes the Trinity

by slimboyfat in

rowan williams, the former archbishop of canterbury gave an interesting answer to the somewhat stark question, what’s the point of us existing?

as a christian, my starting point is that we exist because the most fundamental form of activity, energy, call it what you like, that is there, is love.

that is, it’s a willingness that the other should be.

peacefulpete

Slim...The JW Christology denies the divinity of Christ/Logos. The Logos was God, it/he/she was a semiautonomous aspect of God. This was also so for angels; while they started as transformed sons/gods in El's council, they were in later fully monotheistic Hellenized Judaism, projections of God himself. Think Dr. Manhattan if you were into comics.

Bing Videos 5 min