joanadandy A fairly good new book that disusses the origin of various Bible stories and jewish theology is by Tim Callahan of the Skeptic Society. It's entitled :Secret Origins of the Bible. It's available it you go to the Skeptic Society web page. Which is a great organization for people tired of being duped. I hope though you did not interpret my comment as saying that snakes actually had wings, as they are in the fossil record millions of years ago, they undoubted evolved from lizards, some even today having vestigial hind leg bones.
peacefulpete
JoinedPosts by peacefulpete
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64
Is God just teasing us?
by joannadandy inok yesterday i was talking to my dad (moe's thread reminded me) he said something about how bad satan was...and said, yeah but "wasn't it eve and adam's fault?
i mean yeah satan laid out the sales pitch but they could have said no.
you know gone home, talked it over with god, it wasn't even that high pressured a sales pitch.
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Jehovah or God is blood thirsty
by MrMoe insecond kings, we learn that menahem, leader of the israelites, smote all the people who refused to follow him and all the women therein that were with child he ripped up (2 kings 15:16).
later, in hosea, we learn that because the land of samaria rejected god, samaria shall become desolate; for she hath rebelled against her god: they shall fall by the sword: their infants shall be dashed in pieces, and their women with child shall be ripped up (hosea 13:16).
hosea decided to carry out gods vengeance on the people by killing the unborn babies carried by the heathen women.
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peacefulpete
mrmoe Professor Frank Moore Cross wrote a ground breaking work back in 1972 entitled :Canaanite Myth and Hebrew Epic which is still in print and considered a most authoritative overview of the evolution of Yahwah frm a minor deity to the patron god of the jews. Thomas L. Thompson wrote a very readable review of the very newest archaeology has revealed abut the Historical Isreal entitled :The Mythic Past (1999) Other books on this subject I have specialize too much for my needs.
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64
Is God just teasing us?
by joannadandy inok yesterday i was talking to my dad (moe's thread reminded me) he said something about how bad satan was...and said, yeah but "wasn't it eve and adam's fault?
i mean yeah satan laid out the sales pitch but they could have said no.
you know gone home, talked it over with god, it wasn't even that high pressured a sales pitch.
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peacefulpete
Lets back up. We must first look carefully at the Genesis story. The imagery of trees of enlightenent and nakedness representing innocence are very ancient. So is the serpent but what is interesting is that here it represents evil whereas in other Indu-Asian mythologies the serpent is often men's advocate. The god's of healing and wisdom usually utilized the serpent motif. Aesculapius was represented by a pole with a winged serpent wrapped around it and this greek symbol still is used by our medical profession. So who cares right? The kicker is that the story as written in our bibles bares evidence of scribal editing. The Gnostics held that the serpent was originally the good guy encouraging men to pursue wisdom of the gods and better themselves, whereas the other god was concerned about losing control of humans if they got wise to them.( The Testimony of Truth) Other ancient jewish sourses seem to confirm their position. It is possible that when the jews aquired this ancient story they immediately altered the roles so as not to blaspheme their god. Or this may reflect a very early tradition that was later amended. I favor the latter as it explains the incomplete editing. What I mean by this is that the story retains elements that appear bizarre from a monotheistic perspective and this usually is evidence that the text was already part of a tradition when it was retouched, the editor would be more timid about discarding text but rather would seek to harmonize the old with the new. For instance ,Who were the "like one of us" that Yahwah was addressing? This has been explained as jesus, but it compromises god's uniqueness and complicates issues of free will.A simpler explanation is that this reflects a polytheistic tradition.The plural Elohim (gods) is used with he plural form of the verb and while not proof of polytheism it is consistent with it. Also ,why the cryptic curse to the serpent that it will crawl upon its belly? It makes perfect sense if in the myth it originally had wings. The bible's Seraphim (Seraph means firey or flying snake) were originally depicted as winged serpents.Abundant ancient artwork depict these seraphim in this way. The point is that this story has phlosophical problems because the whole tale has been reworked by a well meaning but unsophisticated editors who thought the story could be utilized if doctored up a bit. So all the debate about foreknowledge and free will based upon this story is bound to be frustrating.
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64
Is God just teasing us?
by joannadandy inok yesterday i was talking to my dad (moe's thread reminded me) he said something about how bad satan was...and said, yeah but "wasn't it eve and adam's fault?
i mean yeah satan laid out the sales pitch but they could have said no.
you know gone home, talked it over with god, it wasn't even that high pressured a sales pitch.
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peacefulpete
test
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36
Jehovah or God is blood thirsty
by MrMoe insecond kings, we learn that menahem, leader of the israelites, smote all the people who refused to follow him and all the women therein that were with child he ripped up (2 kings 15:16).
later, in hosea, we learn that because the land of samaria rejected god, samaria shall become desolate; for she hath rebelled against her god: they shall fall by the sword: their infants shall be dashed in pieces, and their women with child shall be ripped up (hosea 13:16).
hosea decided to carry out gods vengeance on the people by killing the unborn babies carried by the heathen women.
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peacefulpete
Yaweh (Jehovah) was a member of the Ugarit (indiginous palestinians) panthon of gods. He was worshipped by a number of tribes before the Hebrews adopted him as their patron god. They elevated him to chief god above the assembly of gods in heaven. The bloodlust refferred to in the accounts you guys have mentioned reflects the typical tribal/clan violence that plagued this part of the world for centuries.Come to think of it it is still the norm. Fortunately the scope and scale of the Bible stories are greatly exagerated. There is ample evidence to state that there never was an Israel powerful enough to accomplish what these legends assert (ie. 2 chron 14:8,9...1,000,000 Ethiopians defeated) Most of these stories served as proaganda to embolden the frequent Jewish revolts.
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What did Jesus REALLY look like?
by RubyTuesday inwhat jesus looked like doesn't really matter to me... in a faith that is moved by his teachings and not his looks, however it doesn't stop to amaze me why organized religion has gone out of its way to make us think he was gorgeous.
the following scriptures plainly states that he was'nt even just "average" looking but maybe even deformed.maybe it is important what he looked like....important enough to put in the bible and important enough for man to twist it...no twist isn't the word...lie!
visage =the face, countenance, or look of a person or an animal; -- chiefly applied to the human face.
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peacefulpete
The lasting power of Christianity has in part been due to it's continued reinterpretation. Each culture that has adopted some form of the cult reinvents this teacher sage in it's own image. Prevailing standards of piety are superimposed upon th story. The believers mind is often quite unaware of how much selective perception he is guilty of. The militant emphasize the violent. The socialy conscious to his humanitarian episodes.The politically minded interpret so as to justify domination of others. This same mental game is played when visualizing a face. The WT depicts him as 6ft+ and hunky, this is no doubt because of America's obsession with image and beauty. Some have long pictured him black. Others painted him effeminate due to the sexually repressed state of Europe in the Middle Ages.
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sacred secret
by peacefulpete inhello all, it has been a while and much has happend.i have been reunited with my wife who has left the witnesses as a result of pursuing research on the origins of the christian theology.it is very hard on her now and i hope i can be enough support to get her through this.
the point of this post is to make plain what was once secret.
most all of us recognize dec 25 as a date once reserved for celebrating the winter solstice by honoring various sun gods or god's associated with light.
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peacefulpete
Navigator,
Which Jesus is in your heart? The fabled miracle worker cast in the image of pagan deities, or the historical Jewish troublemaker who was killed likely for sedition? The beauty of Christianity or any other religion reflects an innate human beauty. We have the potential for generosity,compassion,justice etc within ourselves.These elements of human nature have served to prosper us as a species.As modern people we should look through the lens of science and history and realize that we no longer need to literalize mythology to feel compelled to be the best we can. Animals "feel" as we "feel" but only humans can apply logic to abstract concepts.The better we get at being human the better the world will be.
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sacred secret
by peacefulpete inhello all, it has been a while and much has happend.i have been reunited with my wife who has left the witnesses as a result of pursuing research on the origins of the christian theology.it is very hard on her now and i hope i can be enough support to get her through this.
the point of this post is to make plain what was once secret.
most all of us recognize dec 25 as a date once reserved for celebrating the winter solstice by honoring various sun gods or god's associated with light.
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peacefulpete
the full posting appears below when replies are made, why is it not on the first page?
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sacred secret
by peacefulpete inhello all, it has been a while and much has happend.i have been reunited with my wife who has left the witnesses as a result of pursuing research on the origins of the christian theology.it is very hard on her now and i hope i can be enough support to get her through this.
the point of this post is to make plain what was once secret.
most all of us recognize dec 25 as a date once reserved for celebrating the winter solstice by honoring various sun gods or god's associated with light.
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peacefulpete
I wrote a full page but only 2 lines were posted. why? what did I do?
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sacred secret
by peacefulpete inhello all, it has been a while and much has happend.i have been reunited with my wife who has left the witnesses as a result of pursuing research on the origins of the christian theology.it is very hard on her now and i hope i can be enough support to get her through this.
the point of this post is to make plain what was once secret.
most all of us recognize dec 25 as a date once reserved for celebrating the winter solstice by honoring various sun gods or god's associated with light.
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peacefulpete
hello all, it has been a while and much has happend.I have been reunited with my wife who has left the witnesses as a result of pursuing research on the origins of the Christian theology.It is very hard on her now and I hope I can be enough support to get her through this. the point of this post is to make plain what was once secret. Most all of us recognize Dec 25 as a date once reserved for celebrating the winter solstice by honoring various sun gods or god's associated with light. Yet it apears to have become established by 200ce as a "christian holiday celebrating the birth of it's light bearing savior. How could this happen? why accepted so readily? The answer becomes clear when we learn just how many christian teachings and legends mirror more ancient "pagan" mythologies.The word mythology is of course inflammatory as all religions when out of favor are mythologies. Palestine was a melting pot of Indian,Persian,Babylonian,Egyptian and Greek cultures. Familiar recurring motifs included the dying and raising god/man/son of god story, they all had at least one.Some of the details surrounding the birth of these saviors are very familiar to us. for example: Immaculate conception/virgin birth/divine father Buddha, Horis Attis,Mithra,Krishna and scores of others. Mother's name Mary or local variants Buddha,Hermes,Bacchus,at least 10 others Born in a manger /stable Krishna,Horus,others Star indicating place of birth and gifts given the child was part of the Buddha and Krishna tradition also, gold frankincense and myrrh given to Kishna. Evil King killing children fearing rival. Horus and Krishna,others Heavenly singing accompanies most births narratives even that of Confucius Parents traveling while pregnant to pay taxes was part of the Krishna story. Divine/angelic announcement of conception and child's destiny:Osirus,Buddha,others 12 years old and teaching in temple:Buddha . Trained as carpenter:Buddha,Salivahana(9th incarnation of Indra) It can be strongly argued that every element of Chritianity was borrowed from or at least inspired by the religious environment in which it sprouted. No wonder in all this confusion, no qualms were made when a few new pagan elements were encorporated, such as Dec 25 being Jesus birthdate.It was already being celebrated as the birthday of Mithras,Saturnus,Attis,Buddha,Dionysus and other savior god/men teachers. Old myths die hard.
Edited by - peacefulpete on 18 December 2002 16:32:57