Posts by pale.emperor

63

I've had enough..

by raven in

so last night, after thinking "wow those pesky elders have finally left me alone, maybe since i skipped out on their jc invitation back on august 1st they've given up" wrong.. i go to check the mail and there's an envelope at my front door- lo and behold, another letter from from these elders.. why won't they leave me alone already?

i'll attach a picture of the letter.. again, same letter as the first one inviting me to a judicial committee on august 15th - and signed by all three elders.. should i just continue to ignore?

quite frankly i don't give a rats arse i've been enjoying life free from the mind control of the organization, and i just wish they would drop it and let me live life.. like i mentioned before, i am moving to a new home next week, the only reason these elders have my current address ( which happens to be over 100 miles away from the cong ) is because my mother gave it to them, after i gave it to her in confidence to forward me my mail.. so lets just say she won't be getting my new address... i don't have any contact with ones from this congregation (i'm an ex pioneer, so i'm sure if they've gotten word on what i'm doing, i must be satan himself!

pale.emperor

Here's what you do: pop the letter back into the envelope and write RETURN TO SENDER, NO LONGER AT THIS ADDRESS. You never received it.

Also, whoever the elder in the middle is his signature is rather flamboyant. Speaks volumes of his personality.

16

Weekend visit from JWs.

by redvip2000 in

had a visit from the jws this week.

i've lived in this house since 2012 and this is the first time, they have reached me at home - quite the urgent work.. anyway, i was home on saturday morning and around 10am, there was a knock.

i had a feeling it would be them.

pale.emperor

From my experience as a born in JW, raised, baptized at 19yo and woke up at 31yo - i did love a good bible discussion. But the one thing that would knock me is people USING the bible to prove me wrong.

When they come to knock on my door i have 2 approaches to use:

1. Show me in the bible (no WT magazines allowed) the 1914 teaching and the overlapping generation.

2. Show enthusiasm then ask "if i join can i preach to my family and hope to being them in to? I can?! But then what if years later i dont believe in it anymore? Can i leave? And still talk to my family? How about my daughter, if she gets baptized at 14 and stops believing when she's say 19 can i still talk to her? No? Bye!

8

A Womans Role In The bOrg

by pale.emperor in

i just read a thread somewhere on here that someone has been accepted to bethel service along with his wife.

his wife has, of course, been assigned to work in the laundry room.

which compels me to write this little post.. now, i dont consider myself a "feminist" as such, but i definitely believe in equality.

pale.emperor

I just read a thread somewhere on here that someone has been accepted to Bethel service along with his wife. His wife has, of course, been assigned to work in the laundry room. Which compels me to write this little post.

Now, i dont consider myself a "feminist" as such, but i definitely believe in equality. Growing up in this organization in which women are not permitted to give talks, say open prayers in the presence of a man without covering her head, conduct a family study in the presence of her husband and other things makes me wonder the how many talented women who could have been really effective teachers and speakers have they missed out on simply because they're female? When it comes to giving talks, a different perspective in priceless. A woman's perspective is never heard from the platform, and that's a shame.

Even in the bible there were female prophets. Surely if there is a God he'd still use women today wouldn't he?

They've placed this woman in the laundry dept. She could just have easily been assigned to drive the delivery truck, work in the printing factory, writing dept, art dept anything really.

If there is a God, i really, REALLY hope it's female. I'd love people to float up to Her presence and go "...oh..............."

5

BITE Model - Sound Familiar?

by pale.emperor in

researching cult mind control brought me to this site: https://www.freedomofmind.com/info/bite/bitemodel.php.

it's like reading a gb mind control manual.

it was my intention to make bold only the ones that the borg do... but they do 98% of them!!!.

pale.emperor

If i wasn't born in i could see myself winding up a Mormon or something. I always had a fascination for different religions and beliefs (of course i was discouraged by my JW family to research all of them).

At the time, being a JW you have a special glow inside thinking that you know something the rest of the world doesn't, because they dont understand it, and "that makes us special." Mormonism is the same. I'd like to believe that there's a god that loves us very much, that has honest representatives on earth, that will being about a real change and we'll see our dead relatives again - and because we want to believe those things we do. We find reasons to.

5

BITE Model - Sound Familiar?

by pale.emperor in

researching cult mind control brought me to this site: https://www.freedomofmind.com/info/bite/bitemodel.php.

it's like reading a gb mind control manual.

it was my intention to make bold only the ones that the borg do... but they do 98% of them!!!.

pale.emperor

Researching cult mind control brought me to this site: https://www.freedomofmind.com/Info/BITE/bitemodel.php

It's like reading a GB mind control manual. It was my intention to make bold only the ones that the bOrg do... but they do 98% of them!!!

As employed by the most destructive cults, mind control seeks nothing less than to disrupt an individual’s authentic identity and reconstruct it in the image of the cult leader. I developed the BITE model to help people determine whether or not a group is practicing destructive mind control. The BITE model helps people understand how cults suppress individual member's uniqueness and creativity. BITE stands for the cult's control of an individual's Behavior, Intellect, Thoughts, and Emotions.
It is important to understand that destructive mind control can be determined when the overall effect of these four components promotes dependency and obedience to some leader or cause. It is not necessary for every single item on the list to be present. Mindcontrolled cult members can live in their own apartments, have nine-to-five jobs, be married with children, and still be unable to think for themselves and act independently.

Destructive mind control is not just used by cults. Learn about the Human Trafficking BITE Model and the Terrorism BITE Model
The BITE Model

I. Behavior Control

II. Information Control

III. Thought Control

IV. Emotional Control

Behavior Control

1. Regulate individual’s physical reality
2. Dictate where, how, and with whom the member lives and associates or isolates
3. When, how and with whom the member has sex
4. Control types of clothing and hairstyles
5. Regulate diet - food and drink, hunger and/or fasting
6. Manipulation and deprivation of sleep
7. Financial exploitation, manipulation or dependence
8. Restrict leisure, entertainment, vacation time
9. Major time spent with group indoctrination and rituals and/or self indoctrination including the Internet
10. Permission required for major decisions
11. Thoughts, feelings, and activities (of self and others) reported to superiors
12. Rewards and punishments used to modify behaviors, both positive and negative
13. Discourage individualism, encourage group-think
14. Impose rigid rules and regulations
15. Instill dependency and obedience

Information Control
1. Deception:
a. Deliberately withhold information
b. Distort information to make it more acceptable
c. Systematically lie to the cult member
2. Minimize or discourage access to non-cult sources of information, including:
a. Internet, TV, radio, books, articles, newspapers, magazines, other media
b.Critical information
c. Former members
d. Keep members busy so they don’t have time to think and investigate
e. Control through cell phone with texting, calls, internet tracking
3. Compartmentalize information into Outsider vs. Insider doctrines
a. Ensure that information is not freely accessible
b.Control information at different levels and missions within group
c. Allow only leadership to decide who needs to know what and when
4. Encourage spying on other members
a. Impose a buddy system to monitor and control member
b.Report deviant thoughts, feelings and actions to leadership
c. Ensure that individual behavior is monitored by group
5. Extensive use of cult-generated information and propaganda, including:
a. Newsletters, magazines, journals, audiotapes, videotapes, YouTube, movies and other media
b.Misquoting statements or using them out of context from non-cult sources
6. Unethical use of confession
a. Information about sins used to disrupt and/or dissolve identity boundaries
b. Withholding forgiveness or absolution
c. Manipulation of memory, possible false memories
Thought Control
1. Require members to internalize the group’s doctrine as truth
a. Adopting the group's ‘map of reality’ as reality
b. Instill black and white thinking
c. Decide between good vs. evil
d. Organize people into us vs. them (insiders vs. outsiders)
2.Change person’s name and identity
3. Use of loaded language and clichés which constrict knowledge, stop critical thoughts and reduce complexities into platitudinous buzz words
4. Encourage only ‘good and proper’ thoughts
5. Hypnotic techniques are used to alter mental states, undermine critical thinking and even to age regress the member
6. Memories are manipulated and false memories are created
7. Teaching thought-stopping techniques which shut down reality testing by stopping negative thoughts and allowing only positive thoughts, including:
a. Denial, rationalization, justification, wishful thinking
b. Chanting
c. Meditating
d. Praying
e. Speaking in tongues
f. Singing or humming
8. Rejection of rational analysis, critical thinking, constructive criticism
9. Forbid critical questions about leader, doctrine, or policy allowed
10. Labeling alternative belief systems as illegitimate, evil, or not useful
Emotional Control
1. Manipulate and narrow the range of feelings – some emotions and/or needs are deemed as evil, wrong or selfish
2. Teach emotion-stopping techniques to block feelings of homesickness, anger, doubt
3. Make the person feel that problems are always their own fault, never the leader’s or the group’s fault
4. Promote feelings of guilt or unworthiness, such as
a. Identity guilt
b. You are not living up to your potential
c. Your family is deficient
d. Your past is suspect
e. Your affiliations are unwise
f. Your thoughts, feelings, actions are irrelevant or selfish
g. Social guilt
h. Historical guilt
5. Instill fear, such as fear of:
a. Thinking independently
b. The outside world
c. Enemies
d. Losing one’s salvation
e. Leaving or being shunned by the group
f. Other’s disapproval
6. Extremes of emotional highs and lows – love bombing and praise one moment and then declaring you are horrible sinner
7. Ritualistic and sometimes public confession of sins
8. Phobia indoctrination: inculcating irrational fears about leaving the group or questioning the leader’s authority
a. No happiness or fulfillment possible outside of the group
b. Terrible consequences if you leave: hell, demon possession, incurable diseases, accidents, suicide, insanity, 10,000 reincarnations, etc.
c. Shunning of those who leave; fear of being rejected by friends, peers, and family
d. Never a legitimate reason to leave; those who leave are weak, undisciplined, unspiritual, worldly, brainwashed by family or counselor, or seduced by money, sex, or rock and roll
e. Threats of harm to ex-member and family

13

What is it going to take for her to wake up? 2016 convention was the biggest display of B.I.T.E

by goingthruthemotions in

so i went to the convention this past weekend.

not, because i wanted to....but, because i had no choice.. i took myself and our son's out walking every chance i had, i made it so we missed the bunker video, the drama, the stupid dream squashing video with the violin.. but, while in there sitting.

one of the speakers said this:.

pale.emperor

Im going this weekend. Im only going because my ex-wife is taking my 2yo daughter and i want to see her as much as i can. Already seen all the videos thats to Cedars on YouTube with his great commentary.

Hope the wifi is working. I do some of my best apostate studys on apostate sites using JW wifi.

78

How to argue with a JW who says the org never said the end in 75

by dogon in

i have argued with several jws who are now being trained to deny the org ever said the end in 75, what is your approach?.

pale.emperor

1:50 "So at times the Faithful Slave maybe's been like that smoke alarm, although they've learned from their mistakes that you really can't be specific about Jehovah's day."

And like an overly sensitive smoke alarm, it's a sign that the batteries are running out and need replacing. Or better still, replace the whole smoke alarm.

67

Recent mistakes of the Governing Body contributing to the decline of JWs

by slimboyfat in

they have made so many strategical mistakes it's hard to keep track.

some changes within the last decade or so that are contributing to declining numbers of jws:.

1. elimination of book study groups, the most informal, enjoyable and sociable of the jw meetings, contributed to loss of sense of community among jws.. 2. policy of consolidating kingdom halls.

pale.emperor

My dad died in 2003, at that time he, nor anyone else in my family knew who the GB where, what they looked like and what their background was.

I can only imagine what his reaction would be watching Stephen Lett give a talk. Comedy hand gestures, 3 facial expressions and talking like he's had a stroke.

A previous poster on another thread said it best "if this man came up to you in the street and said "hey, i talk to God - and he talks to me back. One day im going to live with Jesus in heaven and be a King and Preist and rule over the earth".

You'd quite rightly call him either a conman, deluded or mentally ill.

19

My wonderful son

by KateWild in

hey everyone,.

for those of you who don't know my story.

i had a messy divorce i lost custody of my son in 2011 age 9yrs after four years of court battles to get him back i couldn't do anymore.. yesterday my wonderful son had an upsetting day as our contact was cancelled.

pale.emperor

Kate, im sorry to hear all this - but i dont understand, how come visits need to be supervised? Cant you just turn up and see him whenever you want?

17

Low Day For Me Today

by pale.emperor in

hi guys.

it's been about 4 or 5 weeks since i was disfellowshipped.

so far it's been easy, i enjoyed being left alone, no one bothering me, no one telling me i need to do more, need to reach out, questioning why i didnt go on the ministry, and the fact that my ex-wifes family cant talk to me even if they wanted to.

pale.emperor

Hi guys. It's been about 4 or 5 weeks since i was disfellowshipped. So far it's been easy, i enjoyed being left alone, no one bothering me, no one telling me i need to do more, need to reach out, questioning why i didnt go on the ministry, and the fact that my ex-wifes family cant talk to me even if they wanted to. It was easy, until today.

I dont know why, but today has hit me pretty hard. Yesterday i took my little girl out for the day. She's 2yo and loves the merry go round horses and kiddie cards on a track. So i took her. We had a really nice day. Later in the evening i passed her to her mum (my ex-wife, still 100% dub). Things were amicable.

Today is Sunday, i went to the meeting (i intend to get reinstated so my siblings will talk to me again). In the meetings i try to sit a row or two near my daughter and she sits with me for half of the meeting and her mother for the other half. I'd had her for the first half already. During the WT study she was crying. She was sat 2 rows behind with her mum and my ex's parents. She was crying for about 2 mins and i wondered why no one was seeing to her. So i got up, went into their row, and there she was on the floor face down crying. So i picked her up and carried her out into the back room. My ex rushed after me - along with her parents. In the back room i was comforting my daughter when my wife snatched her off me again, and her dad shaking his head at me and walked out again. As she was being carried away she was crying "daddy! daddy" and reaching for me. My ex took her into the baby change room with her mother.

I waited outside the baby change door with my arms folded watching the WT speaker. My ex's father (he's an elder) was crouching down in the hall whispering to another elder. The elder turned and looked at me. I looked at him back. Then back to the speaker.

My ex came out of the baby change and we had a small argument - she beleived i was undermining her by taking our daughter from the row. That the entire congregation saw me do it and what does that look like? That our daughter is probably playing us off eachother etc. I explained that i could hear her crying for a good while and i cant stand her being upset so i was only seeing to her. I didnt know what was going on and why she wasnt picking her up and cuddling her.

After the meeting we talked and things are amicable again. But when i got home i had a sad realisation...

If i were to slip and bang my head and die right now, or if i were to accidentally electrocute myself - no one would even know. I have no friends yet. My family dont talk to me. My non witness family, i dont know who/where they are because they were "bad association" and cut off since i was born. In fact, if i were to die right now in my apartment, it would be about a month and a half before anyone would call to my house to see if im ok. If i dont go to the kingdom hall they'd just assume i dont want to go.

This social isolation is really hitting me hard. I keep reminding myself that it's cult control tactic, and it's working. Hell, i'd joing any crack-pot group just to have someone to talk to.

I.	Behavior Control
II.	Information Control
III.	Thought Control
IV.	Emotional Control