pale.emperor

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Posts by pale.emperor

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  28

  Elders Advice Backfired And Now Im The Happiest I've Ever Been

  by pale.emperor in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  just wanted to update you guys of the amazing couple of weeks i've had in recovering from the cult.. i was attending the meetings still just so i could see my daughter in the kingdom hall and have her sit we me half the time.

  i had no intention of ever becoming a jw again but was hoping to be re-instated and just not turn up ever again so i could at least see my family.

  but then an elder said something to me that changed all that.

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  pale.emperor

  I spent my Sunday in hers

  Ermmm....you spent your Sunday in her what, exactly?
  

  Hahaha Nooooooo i didn't mean that.
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  28

  Why the story of Noah's ark is scientifically impossible: Minimum Viable Population

  by ILoveTTATT2 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i didn't know this but there is a way to calculate the minimum population required for a certain species to survive over the next 100 to 1000 years.

  this is called the "minimum viable population".. genesis states that 2 (or 7) of each "kind" went into the ark.

  supposing that each "kind" means each "species", and they all could fit in the ark, and they came out safely, most of the species would have died, because it is impossible to survive, long-term, with a starting population of 2.this is interesting:"an mvp of 500 to 1,000 has often been given as an average for terrestrial vertebrates when inbreeding or genetic variability is ignored.

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  pale.emperor

  Not to mention those poor animals having to survive in little cages or pens on their feets all the time in the ark.

  PETA would have a field day.
  
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  17

  Explaining JW Beleifs To Non JW's

  by pale.emperor in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  my new girlfriend asked me over dinner last night what jw's believe.

  as i sat there explaining it i realized how ridiculous it sounds and was slightly embarrassed that i used to believe this crap for 31 years.. try and read this and imagine hearing it for the first time.... me: well... jw believe that god's name is jehovah and that his son is jesus christ.

  they believe that jesus died on a stake and not a cross and that in the year 1914 he personally chosen the jw's as his one true religion.

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  pale.emperor

  My new girlfriend asked me over dinner last night what JW's believe. As i sat there explaining it i realized how ridiculous it sounds and was slightly embarrassed that i used to believe this crap for 31 years.

  Try and read this and imagine hearing it for the first time...
  

  Me: Well... JW believe that God's name is Jehovah and that his son is Jesus Christ. They believe that Jesus died on a stake and not a cross and that in the year 1914 he personally chosen the JW's as his one true religion. This was his 2nd coming which they think really happened but they couldn't see it because it was invisible. They believe that there's 6 men in New York that Jesus chosen to be his mouthpiece on earth and they make all of the decisions as to what we're supposed to believe. They believe that Jesus isn't the mediator for you and me, he's the mediator for those 6 men in New York, and that OUR mediator is the 6 men in New York so we better do as they say without question. They have no doctorates or degrees from any university or theological establishment. They believe that at some point in the future Jesus will come to the earth and slaughter all the men, women and children who didn't become JW's.

  If you're a good JW you might... might... survive this cataclysm. But you can get kicked out for committing sins such as celebrating a birthday, Christmas, defending someone's right to have a same sex relationship, allowing yourself or your family to have a blood transfusion, me sitting here in your home having dinner (they'd assume we had sex), and... oh yeah, disagreeing with what they print in their magazines and books.

  Her: .................................................what?

  Me: Yes. (embarrassed)

  Her: What book do they use?

  Me: The bible.

  Her: And all this is in the bible?

  Me: No, it's in their magazines.

  Her: So what about me? I've never hurt anybody.

  Me: You'd be destroyed in Armageddon because you didn't become a JW.

  Her: And what about you?

  Me: Im an apostate. I've committed the unforgivable sin. So even the blood of Jesus wouldn't save me.

  Her: Thats messed up... cake?

  Me: I'd love some, thanks babe.
  
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  30

  Incredible cover of book published in 1932

  by Truthexplorer in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  ok, i am reading through the book the watchtower and the masons by fritz spring meier which i am finding a fascinating read; and discovered that judge rutherford published the book 'cause of death'.

  what is incredible is the book cover.

  the book was published in 1932 which would have been a little bit more eye catching back then.

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  pale.emperor

  Love the way they painted a blonde haired, white skinned Aryan maiden there. Herr Goebbels would be proud.

  Go on WT, paint a middle eastern Adam and Eve for us. Or even a black Adam and a white eve!

  God: You can have all the tree's you want. But dont eat from this one, this is MY tree ok?

  Adam: Well why put it there?

  God: No, i have to put it here so you can be tempted.

  Adam: So you're the tempter?

  God: No, the serpent is the tempter.

  Adam: So it's the serpents tree?

  God: No it's MY tree.

  Adam: What is this, an Abbot and Costello routine?

  Eve: (munch, munch, munch)

  Adam: Aw shit

  God: !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  Adam: Something tells me this is gonna get out of hand.
  
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  28

  Elders Advice Backfired And Now Im The Happiest I've Ever Been

  by pale.emperor in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  just wanted to update you guys of the amazing couple of weeks i've had in recovering from the cult.. i was attending the meetings still just so i could see my daughter in the kingdom hall and have her sit we me half the time.

  i had no intention of ever becoming a jw again but was hoping to be re-instated and just not turn up ever again so i could at least see my family.

  but then an elder said something to me that changed all that.

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  pale.emperor

  Just wanted to update you guys of the amazing couple of weeks i've had in recovering from the cult.

  I was attending the meetings still just so i could see my daughter in the Kingdom Hall and have her sit we me half the time. I had no intention of ever becoming a JW again but was hoping to be re-instated and just not turn up ever again so i could at least see my family. But then an elder said something to me that changed all that. He was trying to be hard-ball with me with the idea that it'd make me "man up" and return to Jehovah - little did he know he actually helped speed up my recovery from the bOrg more than anything.

  At convention time a few weeks ago my ex-wife went with her family and of course our 2yo daughter. On the Sunday our daughter suddenly became very ill and was vomiting constantly and becoming distressed. The "first aid" people didn't know what to do (why would they? non of them have been to college have they?) so my daughter was sent to hospital to be examined. Turns out she'd found a bottle of day old milk that has been festering in a plastic bag and drank it. (Im not gonna go into how irresponsible her mother was for not watching her closely enough).

  Anyway. This happened on the Sunday - i wasn't told about it until TUESDAY. So annoyed i rang an elder in my old congregation who took my wife and daughter to the hospital asking why i wasnt informed. His reply: "We were concerned that you would turn up to the convention arena and in trying to help you would talk to JW's".
  

  Anyway. After a long discussion about what Jehovah wants and what selfish Pale.Emperor wants we ended the discussion. He finished by saying "As JW's we have a loving family-like relationship which you're no longer a part of. Dont you wish you could come back into this loving family?"

  And my answer was so easy... no.

  No i dont wish to be part of some wierd family relationship where we all have to agree on the same thing in order to be part of that family. To be loved on the basis that i have the same religion and the same opinions as everyone else. Hell, i'd rather my family and friends have different thoughts and interpretations - that way we can have some great insightful and reflective conversations over dinner, around a fire or on walks and at the end of it all still be friends.
  

  The support off you guys on here has been phenomenal. John Cedars YouTube videos have been informative and highly entertaining at time too.

  So... i stopped attending meetings and spent my Thursdays and Sundays doing something more worthwhile. I've met a wonderful woman who likes me just the way i am and hasn't made me feel like i should be doing more, reaching out for some sort of "privilege", nor do we ask someone elses permission before we make decisions. It was so nice to get with someone without religion being the reason you get together. I spent my Sunday in hers chilling out and laughing.

  I'm the happiest I've ever been. I'm 100% out of the WT society and i'll never look back. Sure, i have no family but i accept that the way it is and im determined to be a good guy and deal with whatever life throws at me without relying on a future cataclysm to come and wipe out people who disagree with me.
  
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  63

  I've had enough..

  by raven in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  so last night, after thinking "wow those pesky elders have finally left me alone, maybe since i skipped out on their jc invitation back on august 1st they've given up" wrong.. i go to check the mail and there's an envelope at my front door- lo and behold, another letter from from these elders.. why won't they leave me alone already?

  i'll attach a picture of the letter.. again, same letter as the first one inviting me to a judicial committee on august 15th - and signed by all three elders.. should i just continue to ignore?

  quite frankly i don't give a rats arse i've been enjoying life free from the mind control of the organization, and i just wish they would drop it and let me live life.. like i mentioned before, i am moving to a new home next week, the only reason these elders have my current address ( which happens to be over 100 miles away from the cong ) is because my mother gave it to them, after i gave it to her in confidence to forward me my mail.. so lets just say she won't be getting my new address... i don't have any contact with ones from this congregation (i'm an ex pioneer, so i'm sure if they've gotten word on what i'm doing, i must be satan himself!

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  pale.emperor

  Here's what you do: pop the letter back into the envelope and write RETURN TO SENDER, NO LONGER AT THIS ADDRESS. You never received it.

  Also, whoever the elder in the middle is his signature is rather flamboyant. Speaks volumes of his personality.
  
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  16

  Weekend visit from JWs.

  by redvip2000 in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  had a visit from the jws this week.

  i've lived in this house since 2012 and this is the first time, they have reached me at home - quite the urgent work.. anyway, i was home on saturday morning and around 10am, there was a knock.

  i had a feeling it would be them.

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  pale.emperor

  From my experience as a born in JW, raised, baptized at 19yo and woke up at 31yo - i did love a good bible discussion. But the one thing that would knock me is people USING the bible to prove me wrong.

  When they come to knock on my door i have 2 approaches to use:

  1. Show me in the bible (no WT magazines allowed) the 1914 teaching and the overlapping generation.

  2. Show enthusiasm then ask "if i join can i preach to my family and hope to being them in to? I can?! But then what if years later i dont believe in it anymore? Can i leave? And still talk to my family? How about my daughter, if she gets baptized at 14 and stops believing when she's say 19 can i still talk to her? No? Bye!
  
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  8

  A Womans Role In The bOrg

  by pale.emperor in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i just read a thread somewhere on here that someone has been accepted to bethel service along with his wife.

  his wife has, of course, been assigned to work in the laundry room.

  which compels me to write this little post.. now, i dont consider myself a "feminist" as such, but i definitely believe in equality.

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  pale.emperor

  I just read a thread somewhere on here that someone has been accepted to Bethel service along with his wife. His wife has, of course, been assigned to work in the laundry room. Which compels me to write this little post.

  Now, i dont consider myself a "feminist" as such, but i definitely believe in equality. Growing up in this organization in which women are not permitted to give talks, say open prayers in the presence of a man without covering her head, conduct a family study in the presence of her husband and other things makes me wonder the how many talented women who could have been really effective teachers and speakers have they missed out on simply because they're female? When it comes to giving talks, a different perspective in priceless. A woman's perspective is never heard from the platform, and that's a shame.

  Even in the bible there were female prophets. Surely if there is a God he'd still use women today wouldn't he?

  They've placed this woman in the laundry dept. She could just have easily been assigned to drive the delivery truck, work in the printing factory, writing dept, art dept anything really.
  

  If there is a God, i really, REALLY hope it's female. I'd love people to float up to Her presence and go "...oh..............."

  
  
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  5

  BITE Model - Sound Familiar?

  by pale.emperor in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  researching cult mind control brought me to this site: https://www.freedomofmind.com/info/bite/bitemodel.php.

  it's like reading a gb mind control manual.

  it was my intention to make bold only the ones that the borg do... but they do 98% of them!!!.

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  pale.emperor

  If i wasn't born in i could see myself winding up a Mormon or something. I always had a fascination for different religions and beliefs (of course i was discouraged by my JW family to research all of them).

  At the time, being a JW you have a special glow inside thinking that you know something the rest of the world doesn't, because they dont understand it, and "that makes us special." Mormonism is the same. I'd like to believe that there's a god that loves us very much, that has honest representatives on earth, that will being about a real change and we'll see our dead relatives again - and because we want to believe those things we do. We find reasons to.
  
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  5

  BITE Model - Sound Familiar?

  by pale.emperor in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  researching cult mind control brought me to this site: https://www.freedomofmind.com/info/bite/bitemodel.php.

  it's like reading a gb mind control manual.

  it was my intention to make bold only the ones that the borg do... but they do 98% of them!!!.

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  pale.emperor

  Researching cult mind control brought me to this site: https://www.freedomofmind.com/Info/BITE/bitemodel.php
  

  It's like reading a GB mind control manual. It was my intention to make bold only the ones that the bOrg do... but they do 98% of them!!!
  

  As employed by the most destructive cults, mind control seeks nothing less than to disrupt an individual’s authentic identity and reconstruct it in the image of the cult leader. I developed the BITE model to help people determine whether or not a group is practicing destructive mind control. The BITE model helps people understand how cults suppress individual member's uniqueness and creativity. BITE stands for the cult's control of an individual's Behavior, Intellect, Thoughts, and Emotions.

  It is important to understand that destructive mind control can be determined when the overall effect of these four components promotes dependency and obedience to some leader or cause. It is not necessary for every single item on the list to be present. Mindcontrolled cult members can live in their own apartments, have nine-to-five jobs, be married with children, and still be unable to think for themselves and act independently.

  Destructive mind control is not just used by cults. Learn about the Human Trafficking BITE Model and the Terrorism BITE Model

  The BITE Model

  I.	Behavior Control
  II.	Information Control
  III.	Thought Control
  IV.	Emotional Control

  Behavior Control

  
  1. Regulate individual’s physical reality
  2. Dictate where, how, and with whom the member lives and associates or isolates
  3. When, how and with whom the member has sex
  4. Control types of clothing and hairstyles
  5. Regulate diet - food and drink, hunger and/or fasting
  6. Manipulation and deprivation of sleep
  7. Financial exploitation, manipulation or dependence
  8. Restrict leisure, entertainment, vacation time
  9. Major time spent with group indoctrination and rituals and/or self indoctrination including the Internet
  10. Permission required for major decisions
  11. Thoughts, feelings, and activities (of self and others) reported to superiors
  12. Rewards and punishments used to modify behaviors, both positive and negative
  13. Discourage individualism, encourage group-think
  14. Impose rigid rules and regulations
  15. Instill dependency and obedience
  

  Information Control

  1. Deception:
  a. Deliberately withhold information
  b. Distort information to make it more acceptable
  c. Systematically lie to the cult member
  2. Minimize or discourage access to non-cult sources of information, including:
  a. Internet, TV, radio, books, articles, newspapers, magazines, other media
  b.Critical information
  c. Former members
  d. Keep members busy so they don’t have time to think and investigate
  e. Control through cell phone with texting, calls, internet tracking
  3. Compartmentalize information into Outsider vs. Insider doctrines
  a. Ensure that information is not freely accessible
  b.Control information at different levels and missions within group
  c. Allow only leadership to decide who needs to know what and when
  4. Encourage spying on other members
  a. Impose a buddy system to monitor and control member
  b.Report deviant thoughts, feelings and actions to leadership
  c. Ensure that individual behavior is monitored by group
  5. Extensive use of cult-generated information and propaganda, including:
  a. Newsletters, magazines, journals, audiotapes, videotapes, YouTube, movies and other media
  b.Misquoting statements or using them out of context from non-cult sources
  6. Unethical use of confession
  a. Information about sins used to disrupt and/or dissolve identity boundaries
  b. Withholding forgiveness or absolution
  c. Manipulation of memory, possible false memories

  Thought Control

  1. Require members to internalize the group’s doctrine as truth
  a. Adopting the group's ‘map of reality’ as reality
  b. Instill black and white thinking
  c. Decide between good vs. evil
  d. Organize people into us vs. them (insiders vs. outsiders)
  2.Change person’s name and identity
  3. Use of loaded language and clichés which constrict knowledge, stop critical thoughts and reduce complexities into platitudinous buzz words
  4. Encourage only ‘good and proper’ thoughts
  5. Hypnotic techniques are used to alter mental states, undermine critical thinking and even to age regress the member
  6. Memories are manipulated and false memories are created
  7. Teaching thought-stopping techniques which shut down reality testing by stopping negative thoughts and allowing only positive thoughts, including:
  a. Denial, rationalization, justification, wishful thinking
  b. Chanting
  c. Meditating
  d. Praying
  e. Speaking in tongues
  f. Singing or humming
  8. Rejection of rational analysis, critical thinking, constructive criticism
  9. Forbid critical questions about leader, doctrine, or policy allowed
  10. Labeling alternative belief systems as illegitimate, evil, or not useful

  Emotional Control

  1. Manipulate and narrow the range of feelings – some emotions and/or needs are deemed as evil, wrong or selfish
  2. Teach emotion-stopping techniques to block feelings of homesickness, anger, doubt
  3. Make the person feel that problems are always their own fault, never the leader’s or the group’s fault
  4. Promote feelings of guilt or unworthiness, such as
  a. Identity guilt
  b. You are not living up to your potential
  c. Your family is deficient
  d. Your past is suspect
  e. Your affiliations are unwise
  f. Your thoughts, feelings, actions are irrelevant or selfish
  g. Social guilt
  h. Historical guilt
  5. Instill fear, such as fear of:
  a. Thinking independently
  b. The outside world
  c. Enemies
  d. Losing one’s salvation
  e. Leaving or being shunned by the group
  f. Other’s disapproval
  6. Extremes of emotional highs and lows – love bombing and praise one moment and then declaring you are horrible sinner
  7. Ritualistic and sometimes public confession of sins
  8. Phobia indoctrination: inculcating irrational fears about leaving the group or questioning the leader’s authority
  a. No happiness or fulfillment possible outside of the group
  b. Terrible consequences if you leave: hell, demon possession, incurable diseases, accidents, suicide, insanity, 10,000 reincarnations, etc.
  c. Shunning of those who leave; fear of being rejected by friends, peers, and family
  d. Never a legitimate reason to leave; those who leave are weak, undisciplined, unspiritual, worldly, brainwashed by family or counselor, or seduced by money, sex, or rock and roll
  e. Threats of harm to ex-member and family