Posts by pale.emperor

106

So what caused you to have doubts in the first place?

by nicolaou in

jw
friends

i had no doubts at all about the 'truth' untill a friend of mine in the cong' began falling away.

in trying to help him i had to ask questions and do research and that of course cracked the doors of my mind open for the first time in over thirty years.. years ago, when jwd allowed members to have signatures, i used the following quote from voltaire as mine.

i still love it.. doubt is uncomfortable, certainty is ridiculous..

pale.emperor

My daughter being born. For 5 seconds there was no sound from her tiny body. Then suddenly a cry. I sighed in relief that she was breathing and therefore alive. In those 5 seconds i'd have done anything to make her live and keep living. That's when it hit me, i'd gladly allow her to have a blood transfusion if that's what it took. What would it cost me? Losing out on eternal life? Fine. I'd gladly lose out on living forever to have just one day with my little girl.

From then on i started noticing things. 80% of my congregation not being happy but going along to the meetings because it's less trouble for you if you do. Why am i getting up early every weekend to go out on the ministry when i dont really want to? Surely Jehovah wouldn't accept that sacrifice. Then being told not to learn ancient Hebrew or Greek and not to research outside the WT. Then read Crises Of Conscience so how could i go back after all that evidence?

16

Interesting comment at circuit assembly demo homosexuality

by poopie in

jw
friends

demo talking about view of girls comeing out as lesbian.

comment was we respect lesbians.

but i was thinking some do not respect a person enough to speak to them at kh if there df wow..

pale.emperor

All i can say is, i remember the KH of the 1980s and 90s. There were many older ones in the congregation that were repulsed by even the mention of homosexuals. My mother, to this day, says "eurghhh!" if you mention a gay person you know.

One elder wouldn't even let you use the word "gay". He said "because it's a word they like". Instead he'd have you use a word they didn't like (not from the platform though, this was one-and-one). I remember him answering up in a Watchtower discussion back in the early 90s and saying "in Moses day, we wouldn't show tolerance... we'd stone them" and no one batted an eye.

Demo's like this are a huge sign that this religion is trying to give a squeaky clean image and hide their homophobic past literature.

37

I will only believe in demons if...

by deegee in

jws are known to have an obsession and preoccupation with demons.. this obsession and preoccupation is not without merit given that jesus, his disciples/apostles, and the general public of 1st century ce judea and galilee are reported as believing in the existence of demonic spirits and in the possibility of demon possession of an individual.. exorcism formed a large part of jesus' ministry on earth.

the gospels and the book of acts describe many exorcisms where jesus and his disciples release people from demonic possession.. ___ .

but how do demons get inside a person's brain or body?

pale.emperor

I used to believe in demons etc, my father in particular had many stories about before he was a JW and his family were into mediumship, tarot cards etc. He told us stories about some freaky goings on his one of the houses he grew up in such as him mum bought a picture frame from a 2nd hand shop. The next day the frame was on the floor with the photo next to it but the back of the frame was still tapes shut (oooo! spooky!).

He also said there's been one happening that he'll never tell anyone because it's so scary.

My older brother is not a witness (yet) and he used to dabble with Buddhism and had a dreamcatcher in his room. He claimed paranormal things would happen to him all the time.

My sister claimed she saw a demon with her own eyes.

I was also told by my father that the demons have different ranks and powers. Some like to move things and play cruel tricks, some like to invade dreams, some are more powerful and show themselves. Where he got this information i never did learn because i tried to research all this on WT Library CD Rom in the early 2000s.

Now... i dont believe any of that crap. Know why? Well for one thing my brother has since been diagnosed as a paranoid schizophrenic, my sister is known for telling tall tales and my father never actually researched the other possibilities to strange goings on (practical joker in the house maybe?).

But the final thing that made me stop believing in the supernatural was this: If YOU were an evil spirit, alive for millennia, with all that power and knowledge, would you spend your time opening and closing doors or making photo's disappear from frames? No. I wouldn't either. If i were evil and powerful I'd be doing some really messed up s^it.

50

If "the Truth" is the truth, why are witnesses so scared of research?

by stuckinarut2 in

it is an often asked question i know, but it perplexes me.. if witnesses are so convinced that they have "the truth", why is the act of researching information from external sources so taboo?

didn't the bible itself tell people to "use their powers of reason" and also praised ones like the boreans for researching things they were told??.

seriously, if there is no doubt about the organization being "god's channel" on earth, and it alone having the "truth", surely researching would only enhance such 'facts'?.

pale.emperor

I was thinking about this today. Remember the illustration in the Bible Teach book that shown a teacher at a blackboard with a student claiming to know better than the teacher? WT reasoned that when Satan challenged Jehovah by claiming to be able rule man better, Jehovah let Satan have a go to prove that he would fail.

The same argument could be used here, WT claims to have the truth. Some apostates come along and claim to have information that proves them false. What does WT do? Allow them to present their reasoning and evidence? Nope! Tell their member to instead Ignore, silence and stick their fingers in their ears and la-la-la it.

22

Being a Rude Jerk, It's Awesome!

by Simon in

maybe it's a british thing, but we tend to be polite.

too polite.. even if someone is inconsiderate, we apologize as though we did something wrong.. prime offenders?

people in supermarkets, specifically costco.. they have nice wide isles and yet somehow, for some reason, some idiot will find a way to put their trolley sideways and keep a hand on it while reaching for something, thus blocking the entire isle.. or another favorite ... you're going through the entrance and someone just stops, maybe to answer their phone.. how about you wait in a queue at a checkout for ages and when it's their turn, then they start looking for their purse.. how many times have you thought "idiot" or muttered under your breath?.

pale.emperor

I scream "MOVE!!" but inside my head.

A Spanish friend of mine said in Spain there's a way of testing if someone is British. She said you push your shopping trolley right into them and into the back of their legs. If THEY apologise, they're British.

20

How can the WTS call themselves Christians when they have no Christian church?

by TTWSYF in

so was jesus a fool or a liar?

he said that his church would last all ages, didn't he?.

math 16:8and i say to thee: that thou art peter; and upon this rock i will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

pale.emperor

Jesus was, in effect, an apostate Jew. Wether he was a great man, a con man or a cult leader, at the very least what he was teaching according to Judaism was apostasy.

48

Are baptized Witnesses that are no longer in the "truth", but were NEVER DF'D, now to be shunned and treated like disfellowshipped ones?

by Dunedain in

a relative of mine was telling me, that in his, and a few neighboring congregations, there is a little confusion amongst some of the jw's about this "issue".

some families are having a hard time about whether certain relatives will be attending certain family functions, because some family members that are no longer in the "truth", might be invited to these functions.

mind you, these persons were never disfellowshipped.

pale.emperor

I wish there was something in print about this. I watched the Worst Convention Ever series and heard the speaker in America say it. But my family here in the UK are denying it. And even if they do hear it get announced there'd be A LOT of family members being shunned. It'd cause a big shake up i think.

3

Faithful slave, new teaching

by inbetween in

most of us agree, that jw doctrine, even if you accept the bible as gods word, doenst add up.. just one detail:.

the new teaching about the fds is, that it was established, not in 1st century, but in 1914 (1919?

), and that jesus looked down on earth after his installment as king 1914 and choose the bible students as his organisation.. however, the new kingdom book mentioned in this weeks study, when russel and co startd to publish in newspapers from 1903 on, that jesus manouvered matters, in order to make it successful.. hm, he didnt even choose them yet as his people, but he already supported them ?.

pale.emperor

This is the funny thing with "new thought". Are we supposed to accept it? It's only a thought after all...

Supposedly, Jesus chose the Watchtower in 1919 as his sole channel and declared it clean, which i believed for 31 years as a witness. This supposedly clean organization used to celebrate Christmas and Birthdays, used the cross in worship, worshiped Jesus as well as Jehovah and could join the military as long as they didn't kill anyone etc. (there were stories of men in the army shooting their gun into the air in the middle of battle instead of at people).

If Jesus says Christmas and Birthdays are "clean" what mere man has the right to change that? And if Jesus didn't declare the clean, why did they say he did? If they didn't get it from Jesus but thought they did then why should we believe anything they say?

49

Sisters as Ministerial Servants?

by Spoletta in

my wife has been trying to convince me that the organization is hinting at the possibility of making some older sisters ministerial servants.

she is awake to a lot of the false doctrines, but is still clinging to the hope that the org may become more progressive in the future.

anyone else pick up on this?

pale.emperor

There have been some really well read, clever and personable sisters in kingdom halls when i was growing up. 2 immediately spring to mind as i write this who would have been a credit to "the society" (eurgh, cant believe im saying that) if they were given some sort of role.

Maybe they'll give them another "privilege" but not in an authoritative sense. Like if a sister is called to a JC or elders grilling they may have designated women there for "support" so as to pacify the courts when they read of the crazy JC rule of asking rape victims to sit in a room with 3 men sat facing her asking personal intimate questions about her body.

8

Jesus is Lord...as in Jehovah god...in Reference NWT

by NikL in

i wish i could say i found this but i saw it in a vid from watchtower examination.... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vk7ertncbsk.

in it he points out that in the reference bible used by jws they admit that jesus and jehovah are the same thing.. so i looked it up online on jw.org.

yep it's there.. 1 peter 3:15. but sanctify the christ as lord* in your hearts,+ always ready to make a defense+ before everyone that demands of you a reason for the hope in you, but doing so together with a mild temper+ and deep respect.*.

pale.emperor

I was always good at refuting the trinity as a JW, but I've never seen this before in the reference bible. And after researching... I have no explanation.

Good find.

Anyone care to assist?