I was always good at refuting the trinity as a JW, but I've never seen this before in the reference bible. And after researching... I have no explanation.
Good find.
Anyone care to assist?
pale.emperor
JoinedPosts by pale.emperor
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Jesus is Lord...as in Jehovah god...in Reference NWT
by NikL ini wish i could say i found this but i saw it in a vid from watchtower examination.... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vk7ertncbsk.
in it he points out that in the reference bible used by jws they admit that jesus and jehovah are the same thing.. so i looked it up online on jw.org.
yep it's there.. 1 peter 3:15. but sanctify the christ as lord* in your hearts,+ always ready to make a defense+ before everyone that demands of you a reason for the hope in you, but doing so together with a mild temper+ and deep respect.*.
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pale.emperor
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Young People Ask: I’m Attracted to the Same Sex—Does That Mean I’m Gay?
by pale.emperor ineurgh!
more patronizing and uninformed reasoning from the "experts" at bethel.
this time tackling the sensitive subject of those attracted the the same sex.
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pale.emperor
Eurgh! More patronizing and uninformed reasoning from the "experts" at Bethel. This time tackling the sensitive subject of those attracted the the same sex. But fear not! Apparently all you have to do is snap out of it - it's just a phase!
My comments will be in yellow.
Not at all!
Fact: In many cases, same-sex attraction is nothing more than a passing phase.
Fact? Wow, thats a big statement. A fact? Ok then, care to cite your sources please?
That’s what Lisette, 16, who was at one time attracted to a girl, found. She says: “Through my biology classes in school, I learned that during the adolescent years, hormone levels can fluctuate greatly. I truly think that if more youths knew more about their bodies, they would understand that same-sex attraction can be temporary and they wouldn’t feel the pressure to be gay.”
Well Lisette, that's true. But being a homosexual is a lot more complicated than just fluctuating adolescent hormones. And i doubt very much that any gay person felt pressured to be gay. Just as i dont feel pressured to be heterosexual.
All youths face a choice—either to adopt the world’s degraded view of sexuality or to follow the high moral path set forth in God’s Word.
All youths face a choice—either to adopt the world’s degraded view of sexuality or to follow the high moral path set forth in God’s Word. Sneaking in their own adjective again. This seems to be a running trend for this book. Those people who set those "high moral" standard were desert dwelling people with no knowledge of psychology or medicine and thought it absolutely fine to stone someone to death for, i dont know, picking up sticks on a Saturday.
But what if your attraction to the same sex seems to be more than a passing phase? Is it cruel of God to tell someone who is attracted to the same sex to avoid homosexuality?
Yes!
If you answered yes to that last question, you should know that such reasoning is based on the flawed notion that humans must act on their sexual impulses. The Bible dignifies humans by assuring them that they can choose not to act on their improper sexual urges.—Colossians 3:5.
We didn't need the bible to tell us that Mr Watchtower. The point is, we have the right to love whoever we want without permission from J.Hoover.
The Bible’s stand is not unreasonable. It simply directs those with homosexual urges to do the same thing that is required of those with an opposite-sex attraction—to “flee from fornication.” (1 Corinthians 6:18) The fact is, millions of heterosexuals who wish to conform to the Bible’s standards employ self-control despite any temptations they might face. Those with homosexual inclinations can do the same if they truly want to please God.—Deuteronomy 30:19.
Ohhhh, i see, so you're retracting what you said in the Your Youth book when you said that homosexuals are not born that way but that their behavior is learned through masturbation? Hmm. So when you had that thought it wasn't Gods thought at all then? It was from someone's own head?
I think articles like this are a sign that more and more young ones are becoming aware of how normal being gay is and how the real world is a lot more accepting of them than their supposed all loving god.
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Sisters as Ministerial Servants?
by Spoletta inmy wife has been trying to convince me that the organization is hinting at the possibility of making some older sisters ministerial servants.
she is awake to a lot of the false doctrines, but is still clinging to the hope that the org may become more progressive in the future.
anyone else pick up on this?
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pale.emperor
Pale.emporer Why the tea towel??She wasn't teaching. Sometimes I think witness women get a kick out of this submission shit. A bit like young, modern completely liberated girls in the west wearing the Burkha or scarves when no one in their family does. Is it a sexual kick. Who knows.
It came from some elders not knowing their arse from their elbow and not being sure whether it constitutes a mere woman being above a man in some capacity. The very old elders thought she should cover her head, the younger ones thought no head covering. So just to be safe and not to upset the toddler in the sky that gets very upset for no big reason she had to cover her head. Except we live in the 21st century and western women dont tend to carry head coverings nowadays. So it was either a tea towel from the KH kitchen or a cushion. She opted for the tea towel.
It was only for about 30mins though, as soon as my talk was over i was lead to the sound desk prompty by a spotty MS who is fresh out of high school yet cant fathom how to work a simple sound desk (its only a laptop with mp3s on connected to volume knobs for crying out loud - have a go!)
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Young People Ask... When Can I Start Dating?
by pale.emperor inquite possibly the most annoying and patronizing thing i've read in years.
comments of mine are in yellow.. .
she doesn't trust herself to make her own decisions and she's going to wait years even after she thinks she's ready.
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pale.emperor
I don't mean to play devil's advocate here, and I also do not agree that the only appropriate setting for a sexual relationship is marriage. But I do feel like there are good general standards that can be followed.
One must keep in mind that even practing safe sex leaves the possibility of the girl getting pregnant, which if both parties are not at least nominally prepared for it will cause a lot of problems. Either the burden of a child before one is ready or the emotional baggage of having aborted one's child, a decision which can haunt one decades later. So I would say the first standard to keep in mind is maturity.
Secondly I recommend that love be found amongst the couple, for one never knows which partner one may have to raise a child with.
These are personal standards however not ones I would push on anyone else. It is entirely possible that by advocating its strict stance on such matters the WTBTS is merely trying to avoid any lapses at all, however no matter what their intention no number of rules and guidelines can fully counter human nature, and in the end it seems more likely to cause one to have an unhealthy focus on sex and then have feelings of guilt over it.
I know what you're saying, and that's fine because it's your decision. It's when it becomes dictated to young ones by 6 old men who have no idea, with written rules with sanctions and gossip if you deviate from this article that's the problem. Some non JW's will have their own morals that are stricter than the WT's but as long as it's their decision thats fine.
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pale.emperor
"hey now all you thirsty ones... come and drink lifes water free, yes come drink you thirsty ones... Gods loving kindness see"
I always HATED the childlike way the bOrg tried to get a rhyme in. Mixing up word order like a bitch.
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2.16.2017 NJ Star-Ledger Ad: "Were you sexually abused by the Jehovahs Witnesses?"
by breakfast of champions inmy wife found this 1/4 page ad on page 2 of yesterday's nj star-ledger, probably the biggest newspaper in nj.
pretty telling.. .
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pale.emperor
If only we were seeing such ads here in the UK.
Wonder how the bOrg will deal with this one, because isnt the "persecution" supposed to be because religion is being banned and they're the only ones still preaching?
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Leaving story
by leavingeverythingbehind ini've been following this forum for a couple of years now, but it's only just now that i've decided to register.
it's been quite a long and strenous process leaving the org, having been borned and raised in and spent so much time in.
i'm so gratefull there's the internet these days which helps new people find their way out of this and other religions.
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pale.emperor
Welcome and congratulations. I'm 7 months out and haven't regretted a single day since.
I too love reading the waking up stories.
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Sisters as Ministerial Servants?
by Spoletta inmy wife has been trying to convince me that the organization is hinting at the possibility of making some older sisters ministerial servants.
she is awake to a lot of the false doctrines, but is still clinging to the hope that the org may become more progressive in the future.
anyone else pick up on this?
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pale.emperor
You never know though, more people are waking up and few young ones are joining. In my last cong my wife stood in for sound desk because non of the brothers present knew how to use it. She sat there with a tea towel on her head like a f***ing idiot. How degrading. Meanwhile I was giving a talk trying not to laugh.
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Young People Ask... When Can I Start Dating?
by pale.emperor inquite possibly the most annoying and patronizing thing i've read in years.
comments of mine are in yellow.. .
she doesn't trust herself to make her own decisions and she's going to wait years even after she thinks she's ready.
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pale.emperor
Dear Pale Emperor, sorry, didn't mean to highjack your thread, my apologies again, carla
No worries Carla, that's for commenting.
In hindsight, i think if i were sexually active prior to getting married i would have been a lot more self aware and the girls i dated and i could have had a great time. Man, i remember dating a hot sister for like 3 years. All without hanky-panky. What dolts we were!
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Young People Ask... When Can I Start Dating?
by pale.emperor inquite possibly the most annoying and patronizing thing i've read in years.
comments of mine are in yellow.. .
she doesn't trust herself to make her own decisions and she's going to wait years even after she thinks she's ready.
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pale.emperor
Quite possibly the most annoying and patronizing thing I've read in years. Comments of mine are in yellow.
Young People Ask . . . When Can I Start Dating?
What Is “Dating”?▪ You regularly go out with a certain member of the opposite sex.
Are you dating? □ Yes □ No
▪ Several times a day, you text-message or talk on the phone with one particular friend of the opposite sex.
Are you dating? □ Yes □ No
▪ You and a member of the opposite sex have a secret friendship. Your parents don’t know. You haven’t told them because you know they’ll disapprove.
Are you dating? □ Yes □ No
▪ Every time you get together with your friends, you pair off with the same person of the opposite sex.
Are you dating? □ Yes □ No
Likely, you had no problem answering the first question, but you may have paused before responding to the others. What exactly is dating? In this discussion we will define it as any social activity in which your romantic interest is focused on one particular person and that person’s romantic interest is focused on you. Whether in a group or in private, whether on the phone or in person, whether in the open or in secret, if you and a friend of the opposite sex have a special romantic understanding, it’s dating.
No it isn't. A telephone conversation is not a date. Any normal person would know this.
But are you ready to go down that road? A consideration of three questions will help you to find out.
What Are Your Intentions?
In many cultures dating is regarded as a legitimate way for two people to become better acquainted. But dating should have a noble purpose—to help a young man and woman determine if they would be suitable marriage partners for each other. Why?
The Bible uses the phrase “bloom of youth” to describe the time of life when sexual feelings and romantic emotions become strong. (1 Corinthians 7:36) To maintain close association with one particular member of the opposite sex while you are still in “the bloom of youth” can fan the flames of desire and cause you to learn the hard way the wisdom of Galatians 6:7: “Whatever a man is sowing, this he will also reap.”
And mother nature calls this a perfectly natural stage in human development which can be explored with great fun for all involved.
Granted, some of your peers might date without any intention of marriage. They may view their opposite-sex friend as nothing more than a trophy or an accessory to be seen with in public to boost their own self-esteem. Playing with someone’s affections in that way is cruel, and it comes as no surprise that such relationships are often short-lived. “Many young ones who date break up with each other a week or two later,” says a youth named Heather. “They come to view relationships as transitory—which in a sense prepares them for divorce rather than for marriage.”
Then again, between two consenting adults it could be a healthy physical relationship to fulfill a natural need.
Recreational or casual dating—pairing off merely for fun or for the sake of having a boyfriend or a girlfriend—can easily lead to hurt feelings. Consider Eric, who at age 18 was innocently enjoying what he thought was just a close friendship with a girl. Then he became aware that for her the friendship meant something more. “Wow! Was I surprised at how fast she got serious,” Eric says. “I really thought we were just friends!”
Sounds like Eric had a close shave there. The girl needs to have a word with herself she's the kind of person that thinks she's going to marry some guy because they went on a date. In which case she's creepy and needy if you ask me. Or maybe she's in a cult. Such girls are not the common the real world but about 50/50 in JW land.
Of course, it’s not wrong to mix with members of the opposite sex in properly supervised group settings. When it comes to dating, though, it is best to wait until you are past the bloom of youth and in a position to contemplate marriage seriously. That is what a youth named Chelsea came to appreciate. “Part of me wants to say that dating should be just for fun,” she admits, “but it’s no fun when one person is taking it seriously and the other isn’t.”
You’re How Old?
▪ At what age do you think it is appropriate for a youth to start dating? ․․․․․
▪ Now ask one or both of your parents the same question, and fill in their answer. ․․․․․
Chances are, the first number you wrote down is lower than the second. Or maybe not! You might be among the many youths who are wisely putting off dating until they’re old enough to know themselves better. That is what a young Christian named Sondra has decided to do, even though she is already of legal age to marry. Sondra reasons: “In the dating process you want someone else to get to know you. But if you don’t know yourself, how can you expect someone else to figure you out?”
Notice how Watchtower insert their own adjectives here that sneakily influence the reader to keep away from dating, even though they're making out it's a personal choice. "You might be among the many youths who are wisely putting off dating until they’re old enough to know themselves better." If they removed the word wisely, the sentence would have been acceptable in any publication outside JW land.
Danielle, 17, feels similarly. She says: “Thinking back to two years ago, what I would have looked for in a potential mate was so different from what I would look for now. Basically, even at this point I don’t trust myself to make such a decision. When I feel that my personality has been stable for a couple of years, then I’ll think about dating.”
"Basically, even at this point I don’t trust myself to make such a decision. When I feel that my personality has been stable for a couple of years, then I’ll think about dating.” Oh dear. She doesn't trust herself to make her own decisions and she's going to wait years even after she thinks she's ready. By which time all the "cute guys" will be married already. Leaving poor Danielle married to some much older MS or widowed/divorced elder.
Are You Ready to Get Married?
Since dating is a stepping-stone to marriage, you would do well to ask yourself if you can tackle the responsibility that comes with being a husband or a wife—or even a father or a mother. How do you know if you’re ready for that? Consider the following.
Woah! Slow down. We're talking about dating here. No ones rushing to the altar just yet. And what's with all this talk about having children already? Lots of JW's are married for many years before feeling ready to have kids.
▪ Relationships How do you treat your parents and siblings? Do you often lose your self-control with them, perhaps using harsh or sarcastic language to make a point? What would they say about you in this regard? How you deal with family members indicates how you will treat a mate.—Ephesians 4:31, 32.
▪ Finances How well do you handle money? Are you always in debt? Can you hold down a job? If not, why not? Is it because of the job? the employer? Or is it because of some undesirable trait on your part? If you cannot responsibly handle your own finances, how will you do so for a family?—1 Timothy 5:8.
Oh i dont know, maybe it's because i didn't go to university so i work in a lower paid job, or im pioneering so have very little income.
▪ Spirituality If you are one of Jehovah’s Witnesses, what are your spiritual attributes? Do you take the initiative to read God’s Word, to engage in the ministry, and to participate at Christian meetings? If you are not maintaining your own spirituality, how will you encourage a mate to do so?—2 Corinthians 13:5.
These are just a few things you need to consider if you are thinking about dating and marriage. In the meantime, you may interact with members of the opposite sex in appropriate group settings. Later, if you choose to date, you will have a better idea of who you are and of what you need in a lifelong partner.
"In the meantime, you may interact with members of the opposite sex in appropriate group settings." Oh thank you for giving me permission.
The Secret of Family Happiness
More information can be found on pages 13-26 of this book, published by Jehovah’s Witnesses.
Suspiciously, the link to The Secret of Family Happiness was greyed out. Almost as if the book contains outdated information that they're embarrassed about such as "its ok to spank your kids" and "make your child leave home if he/she gets disfellowshipped".
More articles from the “Young People Ask . . .” series can be found at the Web site www.watchtower.org/ype
TO THINK ABOUT
▪ In what appropriate settings can you mix with members of the opposite sex?
Seriously? We need an approved list of appropriate settings from you instead of just deciding for ourselves?
▪ What quality do you most need to work on in order to have potential as a marriage mate?
Indicating that whoever you are you're not ready yet.
[Box/Pictures on page 28]
What Some of Your Peers Say
“I sometimes feel jealous of dating couples—even married couples. But dating is not just for fun. If it is, you are playing with someone’s heart. I think that dating is to find out if this other person is really the person you want to marry.”—Blaine, 17.
“I don’t think that you should date boys just as a ‘rehearsal’ for when someone you really like comes along. That would just lead to hurt feelings.”—Chelsea, 17.
“I really think that you should be old enough to get married before you begin dating. Otherwise, it would be like going to an interview for a full-time job when you’re still in school and really have no intention of accepting the job.”—Sondra, 21.
[Picture on page 29]It's a pity Watchtower dont use the same reasoning when they ask Am I Ready To Get Baptized? The latest yearbook champions 8yo boys and girls getting baptized.
Mixing with members of the opposite sex in appropriate group settings can be wholesome and beneficial
Im gonna take a wild guess here imagine the picture was young people sitting in a spartan living room with glasses or orange juice while one of the boys in an orange polo tshirt and chinos plays guitar for the others who are singing kingdom songs right out of the book.
