Perry

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Posts by Perry

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  10

  Jehovah's Witnesses (Watchtower Trained) Vs Christians From 36A.D. to 300 A.D.

  by ÁrbolesdeArabia in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  how do jws compare to the ancient churches of the first few centuries?

  almost every jw claim's "organized preaching" is the mark of true christians, this is not backed by the bible.

  how are jws like the first century through fourth century christians?.

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  Perry

  JUde referred to the book of enoch?

  You bet your bippy. And the book of Jasher is referred to three times favorably in the bible. It's not inspired....just an ancient history book.
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  18

  "Further clarification..."

  by Dagney in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  a few minutes ago, a jw, (elder's wife who for some reason still calls me 1-2 times a day to tell me about her new purse/dr's appt/what she's making for dinner/etc.

  ) called to tell me she saw sherri sheppard on tv talking about her new diet book.

  i say, "you know she was raised a jw.

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  Perry

  I speak as my parrot instructs me to. But, only for further clarifications of course.

  Me: (yes) something something about the remnant being caught away before the GT begins.

  Is that what this WT really says?
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  42

  Pure Christianity Straight from the Apostle John

  by Perry in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  me whom they have pierced .

  blood flowed from our saviors' side when he was pierced:.

  "but one of the soldiers pierced his side with a spear, and immediately blood and water came out...for these things were done that the scripture should be fulfilled...and again another scripture says, 'they shall look on him whom they pierced.

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  Perry

  Zechariah 12:10

  The King James Version and the Tanakh both say in Zechariah 12:10, "and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced." When John is writing in John 19:37 and quotes Zechariah 12:10, he has changed it to say, "They shall look on him (instead of me) whom they pierced."
  
  
  John understands Zechariah 12:10 to be a Literal Prophecy plus Literal Fulfillment.

  John is convinced that Jesus is God Himself appearing and living among Israel as a man, as the Messianic person. John then communicates his understanding of the scene he witnessed when Jesus was pierced by the Roman spear. He knew that the Messianic person had to be pierced according the Zechariah 12:10. He believes that Jesus is the Messianic person. When he sees Jesus pierced by the Roman soldier, he understands that moment to be a literal fulfillment of what was predicted in Zechariah 12:10......

  John is not alone in his understanding that the Messianic person is being referred to here. Ancient Jewish sages carried the same understanding. Here are a few quotes found in rabbinic literature:

  Babylonian Talmud Sukkah 52a:

  It's well according to him who explains that the cause (of the mourning) is the slaying of the Messiah the son of Joseph, since that well agrees with the Scripture verse: 'And they shall look upon me, whom they have pierced; and shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son'. 1
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  42

  Pure Christianity Straight from the Apostle John

  by Perry in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  me whom they have pierced .

  blood flowed from our saviors' side when he was pierced:.

  "but one of the soldiers pierced his side with a spear, and immediately blood and water came out...for these things were done that the scripture should be fulfilled...and again another scripture says, 'they shall look on him whom they pierced.

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  Perry

  But designs, this thread is directed to Jehovah's Witnesses (and EX) who consider themselves Christian, and haven't yet accepted the diety of Christ. As a Christian, how can the scriptures in my opening post leave room for any conclusion other than... John considered Jesus to also posesses the substative essence of Jehovah; and is in fact arguing that point by quoting OT scripture.
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  42

  Pure Christianity Straight from the Apostle John

  by Perry in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  me whom they have pierced .

  blood flowed from our saviors' side when he was pierced:.

  "but one of the soldiers pierced his side with a spear, and immediately blood and water came out...for these things were done that the scripture should be fulfilled...and again another scripture says, 'they shall look on him whom they pierced.

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  Perry

  Designs,

  This is a presentation of what appears to be an Ironclad PROOF SCRIPTURE for the diety of Christ. My point is that in all my trinity discussions, I never had ANY Christian bring this to my attention while I was out in service. I wonder if anyone else did. That's all.
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  42

  Pure Christianity Straight from the Apostle John

  by Perry in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  me whom they have pierced .

  blood flowed from our saviors' side when he was pierced:.

  "but one of the soldiers pierced his side with a spear, and immediately blood and water came out...for these things were done that the scripture should be fulfilled...and again another scripture says, 'they shall look on him whom they pierced.

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  Perry

  And Zechariah too?

  When I was a Regular Pioneer I really enjoyed going toe to toe with Christians. But, I never had this connection brought to my attention. Anybody else run up against this out witnessing? If so, how did you handle this as a good JW?
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  42

  Pure Christianity Straight from the Apostle John

  by Perry in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  me whom they have pierced .

  blood flowed from our saviors' side when he was pierced:.

  "but one of the soldiers pierced his side with a spear, and immediately blood and water came out...for these things were done that the scripture should be fulfilled...and again another scripture says, 'they shall look on him whom they pierced.

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• 

  Perry

  Me Whom they have Pierced

  Blood flowed from our Saviors' side when He was pierced:

  "But one of the soldiers pierced His side with a spear, and immediately blood and water came out...For these things were done that the Scripture should be fulfilled...And again another Scripture says, 'They shall look on Him whom they pierced.'" (John 19:34-37).

  And who is the One whom they pierced? The LORD!:

  "The burden of the word of the LORD against Israel. Thus says the LORD, who stretches out the heavens, lays the foundation of the earth, and forms the spirit of man within him:...'And I will pour on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem the Spirit of grace and supplication; then they will look on Me whom they pierced. Yes, they will mourn for Him as one mourns for his only son, and grieve for Him as one grieves for a firstborn.'" (Zechariah 12:1-10).

  The Lord Our God is One. Period. This is Pure Christianity straight from the Apostle John. Think about it. Was John lying?
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  59

  The Governing Body scenario is nearly identical to that in 1977 - no power

  by Dogpatch in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  the watchtower perposely keeps its leaders "cordoned off" for a reason.

  the ones really in charge want to be invisible and have been in control since knorr's day, and still think like him.

  the gb want like hell to be visible and powerful.

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• 

  Perry

  But I am genuinely curious as to who Randy is specifically referring to. I can imagine the Adams brothers for example but ...

  Sorry....made me think of this. Now BTTT !

  
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  10

  Jehovah's Witnesses (Watchtower Trained) Vs Christians From 36A.D. to 300 A.D.

  by ÁrbolesdeArabia in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  how do jws compare to the ancient churches of the first few centuries?

  almost every jw claim's "organized preaching" is the mark of true christians, this is not backed by the bible.

  how are jws like the first century through fourth century christians?.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Perry

  How do JWs compare to the ancient churches of the first few centuries?

  Let's Review:

  Early Christians believed:

  1. Military officers could be Christians (Corneilus) - FAIL

  2. Believed they could pray to Jesus to save them (Ex: Stephen's prayer & Thief next to Jesus) - FAIL

  3. ALL accepted the Blood Covenant as an offer for the forgiveness of personal sins (NOT JUST RULERSHIP POSITIONS, See Matthew 26:28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.) - FAIL

  4. Believed in a literal personal Judgment for each person'S SINS AFTER they died (Hebrews 9:27 - And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:) - FAIL Note: Hence the necessity for point 3

  5. And most importantly: They believed that the gospel was fixed in stone and could not be changed without incurring the wrath of God (But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. Gal. 1: 8) This is the diametric opposite of the "light gets brighter and brighter" JW doctrine) - FAIL
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  38

  Recent Article on Dinosaur DNA , Decay Rates,etc.

  by Perry in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  dna in dinosaur bones?

  by brian thomas, m.s.

  finding dinosaur dna is as unthinkable to an evolutionist as finding a flat earth would be to a geographer.

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  Perry

  EP, I said "everyone". That means everyone, get it now?