Recent Article on Dinosaur DNA , Decay Rates,etc.

by Perry 38 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Perry
    Perry

    DNA in Dinosaur Bones?

    by Brian Thomas, M.S. *

    Finding dinosaur DNA is as unthinkable to an evolutionist as finding a flat earth would be to a geographer. This is because DNA decays far too quickly to last millions of years. Thus, a recent report of possible dinosaur DNA promises to meet resistance from secular scientists. But combined with new DNA decay data, it builds a strong argument against evolutionary time.

    Fossil experts have studied original dinosaur tissues and biochemicals for a long time. When tyrannosaur and hadrosaur bones from Montana were viewed under a microscope, they were found to harbor fresh-looking bone cells called osteocytes. Researchers even verified original—not mineralized—dinosaur proteins called collagen and elastin in 2009. 1

    The new report in the journal Bone identified vertebrate-specific proteins named actin and PHEX. It also described DNA in the dinosaur cells. 2

    Many secular scientists have sought to resolve the dilemma of fast-decaying biochemicals found deep within fossils by asserting that bacteria produced them after creeping into the bone sometime after the creatures were catastrophically buried. One way to help disprove the bacteria idea is to find exclusively animal proteins.

    The researchers did just that. They also applied two different DNA-sensitive stains to the osteocytes. Both stains visualized DNA in a central location inside the long-dead dinosaur cells—where the cell’s nucleus should be.

    They also applied an antibody that binds to a DNA-packaging protein called histone H4; bacteria do not have histone H4, but vertebrates do. The antibody bound its target, identifying yet another kind of original vertebrate protein. And the histone was sitting in the same nucleus-like central region within the cells. The stains and antibody did not bind other parts of the cell, nor the sediment that surrounded the dinosaur fossils. In short, this study strongly supported the presence of original dinosaur proteins and DNA.

    The dinosaur cells certainly contain DNA, and it sits right where one would expect if it were original dinosaur DNA. Without sequencing the DNA, it is difficult to be absolutely sure. However, scientists have reported ancient DNA from various fossils, including dinosaur bone. 3

    If it is dinosaur DNA, then it cannot be millions of years old because of the results of a separate study. Scientists examined 158 ancient leg bones from the extinct giant moa bird that lived on New Zealand’s South Island. The study authors generated a DNA decay rate with unprecedented rigor. 4

    The moa research team measured the half-life of DNA to be 521 years under average local temperatures. 5 After this time, only half of the amount of DNA present when the animal died should remain. And after another 521 years, only half of that remains, and so on until none is left. At this rate, DNA molecules in bone break down after only 10,000 years into tiny chemical segments too short for modern technology to sequence. And this result assumes preservation factors that optimize biochemical longevity.

    DNA could not last half a million years, but paleontologists describe DNA in samples designated millions of years old. Ditching the millions-of-years dogma would resolve this dilemma. The clearly detected dinosaur proteins and what looks like dinosaur DNA make sense if the earth layers that contain them were deposited by Noah’s Flood only thousands of years ago.

    References

    1. Schweitzer, M. H. et al. 2009. Biomolecular Characterization and Protein Sequences of the Campanian Hadrosaur B. Canadensis. Science. 324 (5927): 626-631.
    2. Schweitzer, M. H. et al. 2013 Molecular analyses of dinosaur osteocytes support the presence of endogenous molecules. Bone. 52 (1): 414-423.
    3. Woodward, S. R., N. J. Weyand, and M. Bunnell. 1994. DNA Sequence from Cretaceous Period Bone Fragments. Science. 266 (5188): 1229-1232.
    4. Allentoft, M. E. et al. 2012 The half-life of DNA in bone: measuring decay kinetics in 158 dated fossils. Proceedings of the Royal Society B. 279 (1748): 4224-4733.
    5. This is the half-life of a 242 bp region of moa mitochondrial DNA, calibrated using radiocarbon years to approximate calendar years.

    * Mr. Thomas is Science Writer at the Institute for Creation Research.

    Cite this article: Thomas, B. 2013. DNA in Dinosaur Bones? Acts & Facts. 42 (1): 15.

  • OnTheWayOut
    OnTheWayOut

    Regardless of how you think or what you read Perry, dinosaurs have been gone for several millions of years.

    Is the science perfect or could it be off by years, even several thousands of years or more? The science is not perfect.

    But it ain't off so much as to believe that the non-avian dinosaurs roamed the earth less than a million years ago or even less than 50 million years ago.

  • Perry
    Perry
    Regardless of how you think or what you read Perry, dinosaurs have been gone for several millions of years.

    I'm sorry to have shown my ignorance again; I beg your pardon.

  • OnTheWayOut
    OnTheWayOut

    * Mr. Thomas is Science Writer at the Institute for Creation Research.

    There's your problem. Might as well be a writer at the Flat Earth Society.

    Maybe the dinosaurs are still around in hiding, maybe they are responsible for the Sept. 11, 2001 attacks in the United States. Hell, maybe they are really responsible for misleading Joseph Smith about the golden tablets (or whatever they were).

    Maybe there really is a vast humongous conspiracy among scientists earthwide of varying nationalities, backgrounds, social beliefs, etc. Somehow, the vast majority of them put their differences aside and agree to dupe the whole earth. Maybe the demons inhabit all the scientists except for the ones that believe what Perry believes.

  • designs
    designs

    This just proves how accurate the Green NWT Bible editors were in putting the dinosaurs next to Adam and Eve on the inside cover.

  • OnTheWayOut
    OnTheWayOut
    This just proves how accurate the Green NWT Bible editors were in putting the dinosaurs next to Adam and Eve on the inside cover.

    Good one, I was thinking the same. Great minds think alike.

    What Perry really wants is for someone to ping his brain so that he actually stops believing in the God of the Bible so literally. Perry wants, unbeknownst to himself, you wonderful JWN people to free his mind.

    Otherwise, he is stuck believing that the earth is just over 6000 years old and that dinosaurs missed the ark and somehow, not because he didn't know about their existence, Moses left them out of the writings and nobody else remembered them.

  • designs
    designs

    I can picture it now Perry and Fred Franz together again in Heaven

  • Perry
    Perry

    For a more complete record of my ignorance on this subject:

    Many people have been following the unfolding dinosaur soft tissue story since it broke in 2005. The millions of years community (MOYC) fought tooth and nail to deny that original tissue was found in a TREX dinosaur.

    In time, the reality of original dinosaur soft tissue, blood vessels etc. sank in and then all of the sudden it was amazing to everyone in the MOYC that this biological material could last for millions of years. The fact that broken dinosaur bones commonly smell like rotting corpses only increased the

    astonisment that someting could rot for 65 milllllllion yeeeeeeeers..amazing.

    Then came the ancient DNA discoveries:

    DNA sequence from Cretaceous period bone fragments. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7973705
    Amplification and sequencing of DNA from a 120-135-million-year-old weevil. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8505978

    Then the MOYC decided en masse that it was simply amazing how DNA could last for millions of years.

    My original post pointed out a very significant study that changes the emotional (as opposed to logical) landscape of the MOYC yet again. Here's the citation:

    Allentoft, M. E. et al. 2012 The half-life of DNA in bone: measuring decay kinetics in 158 dated fossils. Proceedings of the Royal Society B. 279 (1748): 4224-4733.

    This study of extinct Moa bird bones in New Zealand puts the half life of DNA at 500 ~ years, meaning that detectable DNA traces will disappear by 10,000 ~ years.

    Now, this peer-reviewed study should cause thinking people to question the Millions of Years paradigm, and it does just that for many. But not for the hard core believers.

    If you do a google search you'll find the MOYC are simply sad because it will not be possible to clone a dinosaur since it is now proven that dna degrades so quickly. They are sad that they wont get to play with dinos. Nevermind that this study destroys Evolution Theory, playing with cloned dinos ....that what this is all about right? ..... but I digress.

    The real game changer for the MOYC is that they are now forced to scream CONTAMINATION for EVERY single positive ancient DNA sequencing test. It's the only stick they have left in which to beat those that question the traditional paradigm. But, carefully documented studies on Dinosaur DNA like the one described in my OP will increasingly make this "last-stand" argument less and less easy to prop up.

    It's getting close to "Check Mate"

  • designs
    designs

    Sweet, I shall now return to the Wt. and spend my life studying their Creation Book.

  • OnTheWayOut
    OnTheWayOut

    Oh, please Perry. Without a bunch of links, just tell us the real dino-truth.

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