Posts by Perry

30

Today is my birthday !

by mrquik in

jw
friends

after missing 63 years of birthday celebrations, i'm making up for it in spades.

cake, presents & parties.

i tell everyone i meet that today is my birthday just to hear them say "happy birthday".

recent watchtower article condemning catholic mediator between men and god

by oldregretfuljwx2 in

jw
friends

i'm researching for an article on religious torture, how the un condemns physical and psychological torture and how that applies to witness shunning and ran across the information below on mediatorship.

<a href="http://imgur.com/rrqt8ei"><img src="http://i.imgur.com/rrqt8ei.jpg" title="hosted by imgur.com" /></a> .

[url=http://imgur.com/rrqt8ei][img]http://i.imgur.com/rrqt8ei.jpg[/img][/url] .

Perry

Designs,

Moses was the mediator of the first covenant.

In Heb 9:18-20, in order to demonstrate the necessity of Christ's death as the means by which he became the mediator of the new covenant, the author recalls the fact that the first covenant was inaugurated with blood. To make this point, he refers to Exodus 24:1-8, an account of the ratification of the covenant by Moses—the mediator of the first covenant—between God and the Israelites.

In this rite, the people declared their willingness to do all the words of the Lord and the ordinances (Exod 24:3). Half of the blood of the calves Moses threw it against the altar, but he used the other half to sprinkle on the people, saying "This is the blood of the covenant." (Rather than "Behold..." in LXX Exod 24:8, the author uses "This is...," which is parallel to Mark 14:24 "This is my blood of the covenant.") The point is that the new covenant is also ratified with blood, so that Jesus’ blood is the blood of the (new) covenant.

Implicit in the author's theologizing is the position that the blood of the animals are anti-typological of Jesus' blood, i.e., death, as the means by which the new covenant is inaugurated. (On this passage, see J. Dunnill, Covenant and Sacrifice in the Letter to the Hebrews , 126-34)

I suppose there could be a "Judaism" without Moses the way some people fantasize about a christianity without Jesus.....but that is completely outside of the common-sense definitions.

23

recent watchtower article condemning catholic mediator between men and god

by oldregretfuljwx2 in

jw
friends

i'm researching for an article on religious torture, how the un condemns physical and psychological torture and how that applies to witness shunning and ran across the information below on mediatorship.

<a href="http://imgur.com/rrqt8ei"><img src="http://i.imgur.com/rrqt8ei.jpg" title="hosted by imgur.com" /></a> .

[url=http://imgur.com/rrqt8ei][img]http://i.imgur.com/rrqt8ei.jpg[/img][/url] .

Perry

The one scriptural passage that unlocks the mess that the Watchtower tries to make of a beautiful offer of God is Mathew 26: 27, 28

From the NWT:

"And taking a cup, he offered thanks and gave it to them, saying: “Drink out of it, all of you, for this means my ‘blood of the covenant,’ which is to be poured out in behalf of many for forgiveness of sins."

Here you have Jesus (1) offering the cup to everyone, which is (2) a symbol of his blood sealed covenant to (3) forgive sins of the covenant members. This is what makes a person clean, the life of Jesus for yours ("the just for the unjust"-1 Peter 3:18)...... and not by their works, "lest any man should boast". The blood covenant washes a person and makes them white like snow before a court of law even though their sins be crimson.

NOW, lets look at the condition of the "Great Crowd". Are they declared righteous by the "benefits" they receive by being in association with the Watchtower corporation? Noooooooooooooo

From NWT:

Rev. 7 After this I saw, and look! a great crowd, which no man was able to number, out of all nations ........ “These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb

The great crowd of tribulation saints get declared righteous the EXACT same way EVERYBODY previously did .... the blood of the lamb, only accessible by THE COVENANT. This is the ONLY deal offered mankind in the New Testament (Covenant) Scriptures. Destinations, functions, rewards may differ....but the mechanism for avoiding judgment is the SAME.

This is the true pupose of the WT, to prohibit the blood covering of Christ so that members are not declared righteous but must face judgment for their own sins at the Great White Throne. No one survives this judgment. Everyone gets judged, either vicariously (with a free pass) or in person....the choice is yours.

Satan knows that Judgment where he himself is headed and there is no savior for him. He wants to take the children of Adam, that he so jealously hates, with him.

42

Ironic quote in the 5/14wt lesson "Are you moving ahead with Jehovahs Organization"

by BU2B in

jw
friends

the whole article makes me ill with its worse than average mind control.. i was going to only include one quote but there are so many doozies that i will post what i feel to be the worst.. from paragraph 6.

"gods organization survives and flourishes on earth because the people who are part of it have his approval.".

the great tribulation has been "so close" for over 120 years of wt history.

Perry

we must .... accept adjustments in our understanding of the Scriptures

This fine young pioneer brother was having trouble accepting changes in doctrine. However, he faithfully submitted to a theocratic thinking readjustment is now well on his way to moving ahead with Jehovah's Organization.

23

recent watchtower article condemning catholic mediator between men and god

by oldregretfuljwx2 in

jw
friends

i'm researching for an article on religious torture, how the un condemns physical and psychological torture and how that applies to witness shunning and ran across the information below on mediatorship.

<a href="http://imgur.com/rrqt8ei"><img src="http://i.imgur.com/rrqt8ei.jpg" title="hosted by imgur.com" /></a> .

[url=http://imgur.com/rrqt8ei][img]http://i.imgur.com/rrqt8ei.jpg[/img][/url] .

Perry

Excerpt From my online booklet on Mediators. - Some quotes you might find useful

Modern “Mediators”
As pointed out earlier, on ONLY two occasions
(once through Moses and once through Jesus) God
has set forth his terms to commute the death
sentence due each person. In both instances the
mediator of each agreement (covenant) was chosen
directly by God and that position was, (and is) not
open to modification in any way; it is exclusive.
Should that Mediator be rejected for any reason or
more than one mediator be looked to; in that case
God’s offer for a commutation of sentence is off the
table and a sinner is on his own before the Judgment
God. And make no mistake; Jehovah God’s wrath is
renewed each day toward the wicked. (Psalm 7:11)

It is the goal of many Catholics and Jehovah’s
Witnesses to please God. This is a worthy desire.
However, most are not aware of how the official
teachings of their organizations relate to the
Mediatorship of Jesus Christ. As we learned earlier
in this study, that one point is critical to God. So in
order to clear this up we’ll print a few of those
official teachings here:

Catholic Catechism #969 “Therefore the Blessed
Virgin is invoked in the Church under the titles of
Advocate, Helper, Benefactress, and Mediatrix.”

Clearly the Catholic Church has lifted titles for the
Holy Spirit and applied them to Mary. The title
Mediatrix is the feminized version of Jesus‟ title as
Mediator. The RCC makes Mary a co-mediator.

Catholic Catechism # 882 The Pope, Bishop of
Rome and Peter's successor, "is the perpetual and
visible source and foundation of the unity both of the 8
bishops and of the whole company of the faithful.
For the Roman Pontiff, by reason of his office as
Vicar of Christ, and as pastor of the entire Church
has full, supreme, and universal power over the
whole Church, a power which he can always
exercise unhindered."

The Pope sees himself as the visible head of God’s
Kingdom on earth as opposed to the invisible
authority of Jesus Christ. However, early Christians
walked by faith, not by sight. (2 Cor. 5:7).
Additionally, one of the Pope’s titles is the Vicar of
Christ. The word vicar comes from the Latin word
vicarius meaning substitution. The on-line version
of the Pocket Catholic Dictionary defines the Vicar
of Christ as: “The Pope, visible head of the Church
on earth, acting for and in the place of
Christ”. However, this is in serious conflict with
scripture. Can there be two heads on one body?

… Christ is the head of the church: and he is the
saviour of the body. - Ephesians 5:23

1994 Catholic Catechism Paragraph # 82 - As a
result the Church, to whom the transmission and
interpretation of Revelation is entrusted, does not
derive her certainty about all revealed truths from
the Holy Scriptures alone. Both Scripture and
Tradition must be accepted and honored with
equal sentiments of devotion and reverence.

Here the Catholic Church demands their own
traditions be revered as if they are the word of God.
Of course these traditions include the sharing of
Christ as Mediator with others.

There are many other examples of the Catholic
Church appropriating titles, terms, and authority
reserved only for Jehovah, Jesus, the Holy Spirit,
and God’s Word the Bible. But the main point for
this discussion is that the RCC teaches that there are
numerous mediators that can intercede for your
salvation including saints, popes, Mary, priests etc.
This is a direct affront to God’s kind provision of
Jesus Christ as Mediator. Remember that the issue of
exclusivity was settled in Numbers Ch. 16.

It is also instructive to be aware of how Popes have
historically treated Christians who recognized Jesus
as their sole Mediator and Scripture as their
sole authority. Contrary to what you might have
been aware of, Europe was already full of perhaps
millions of Christians when the RCC sent out
“missionaries” beginning in the 4th
and 5th
centuries.
You can internet search YOU TUBE with the term:
Catholic Inquisition for a truly mind boggling
history lesson on the plight of those who historically
believed in SALVATION BY FAITH ALONE as
opposed to salvation through an organization. This
one-hour video is produced by
www.BereanBeacon.org. For a more in-depth look
at Catholic doctrine, please visit:
www.whateverycatholicshouldknow.com

While the Roman Catholic Church seems content
with merely sharing Christ’s Mediatorship, the
Watchtower Corporation has completely severed
Christ’s Head as Mediator from off the body of the
congregation. The February 15, 1991 issue of the
Watchtower, pgs. 15-20 paragraph 11; makes this
announcement:

11
Nevertheless, in a preliminary way, the great
crowd have already “washed their robes and made
them white in the blood of the Lamb.” (Revelation
7:14) Christ does not act as Mediator of the new
covenant toward them, yet they benefit from this
covenant through the work of God’s Kingdom.

The Watchtower here is teaching that a person can
be clean before God without Christ as their
Mediator. They say sins are forgiven in some sort of
“preliminary way” but fail to explain from the bible
exactly what that way is. What is likely meant is in
the last sentence of the quotation above: yet they
benefit from this covenant through the work of
God’s Kingdom.

In other words, they are saying that the works of
congregation members in the visible part of God’s
Kingdom (their organization) is what “benefits” or
saves them. Read it again. In one sentence it is
claimed that members (in an unexplained
preliminary way) washed their robes in the blood of
the Lamb and in the very next sentence they claim
that they are cut off from the New Covenant which
is the very agreement that provides that clean
standing. (Revelation 1:5) If it is true, that “Christ
does not act as Mediator of the new covenant
toward them” then, who does act as 9
mediator ofthe New Covenant toward them? Surely
a Jehovah’s Witness would not try to stand before
God on their own would they? There is no other
access to Jesus’ blood that washes us clean accept
through the New Covenant. Biblically, it just doesn’t
exist.

This is the one question that every Jehovah’s
Witness should ask themselves: Using only the
bible, how can I show that my sins are forgiven?
Since you are not part of the New Covenant and are
cut off from Jesus the Mediator, how could your sins
possibly be forgiven? Are you counting on: we-ask-
all-this-in-Jesus-name-amen, at the end of your
prayers? How is that different than other mechanical
prayers? Remember, when Jesus said he would grant
requests made in his name, he was speaking to his
New Covenant members, not those outside of that
agreement.

Many times our Jehovah’s Witness friends and
neighbors get a little miffed when they hear the
accusation that they don’t believe in Jesus. So for
clarification: Christians aren’t saying that Witnesses
don’t believe in the historical figure of Jesus;
Christians are simply pointing out that they don’t
believe in Jesus as Mediator for them. And hence
biblically, a Jehovah’s Witness has nothing
preventing his/her judgment before the Great White
Throne for their sins.
For there is one God, and one mediator between
God and men, the man Christ Jesus
- 1 Tim. 2: 5

Unofficially, the Watchtower Corporation, like the
Catholic Church sees itself as a co-mediator with
Christ. This is clear to anyone honestly observing.
Just as Moses “stood between the dead and the
living” and negotiated peace between the people and
God, the Watchtower Corporation sees itself as the
only thing standing between life and death for
people. Watchtower witnessing work teaches a
salvation through their organization as opposed to
exclusively through Jesus:

The Nov. 15, 1981 Watchtower page 21 reads: “the
[Watchtower] witness yet includes the invitation to
come to Jehovah’s organization for salvation”
By contrast, this is the witness message taught by
the apostles:

the gospel of Jesus Christ - Mark 1:1
the gospel of the grace of God. - Acts 20:24
my gospel … the preaching of Jesus Christ - Romans
16:25
the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: - 2
Thessalonians 1:8
our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death,
… the gospel - 2 Timothy 1:10

Similar to the Catholic Church, the Watchtower also
applies exclusive titles of Jesus to their organization.
Members are socialized to refer to their organization
as “The Truth”. This is a title taken directly from
Jesus Christ as the Word of God:

Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and
the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. -
John 14: 6

Also like the Catholic Church which claims its
traditions and unique teachings is equal to that of the
bible, the Watchtower views its teachings as part of
the bible with the same authority:

Watchtower December 15, 2008, pg 28 – “Our
coming to know „the truth‟ - the entire body of
Christian teachings that has become part of the
Bible - and adhering to it are essential for our
salvation”.

Simply put, the Catholic Church, the Watchtower
Corporation, and others have made the deadly
mistake that other foolish people have made; they’ve
added their traditions, good works, and another
mediator to “Jesus the author and finisher of our
faith”. (Heb. 12:2) Because of this, they have
nullified God’s offer of salvation for some. (Mark
7:13) There is only one way into God’s favor:

I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into
the sheepfold , but climbeth up some other way, the
same is a thief and a robber…Verily, verily, I say
unto you, I am the door of the sheep. - Jn.10: 1-7

32

Watchtower Oct 15 2014

by Listener in

the october watchtower 2014 is now up on jw org.

regarding the new covenant they write.

the governing body sets the scene in the first article by stating how they are like jesus and as humans they are sinless in god's eyes.. then on page 24 they state this.

Perry

I'm with earthfire..... it is heart rendering.

Excellent post btw

11

Jesus use of illustrations in wt July 7-13

by What is Truth? in

this is the first time i noticed how dumb jc's use of illustrations could be if that's all he did in the context of.

matt.

13:10-15 ) so the disciples came and said to him: why do you speak to them by the use of illustrations?

Perry

Always remember that not one of the NT writers had actually seen or heard Jesus.

I always get my giggle box cranked when someone says "always remember" about something that they have zero personal knowledge about.

35

I love my life, I don't want to die

by losingit in

hello everyone..... i've been thinking a lot lately, when i have a chance to be alone my mind immediately comes to the topic at hand-- i don't want to die.

what would happen to my precious little girls?

but i'm so scared that it's going to happen.

Perry

But right now all religion is hands-off. The deception practiced by the Witnesses unsettled me, and I cannot return to religion with the type of open heart that I had so many years ago.

When I left the WT, this was my experience too. However, it began to become apparent that this was the desired result for those that leave. The watchtower brainwashes people to believe, "it's us or nothing". This is simply the devil continuing his bullying in our ears.... trying to make us feel sorry for ourselves for having wasted our belief on an illusion.

Jesus warned us that there would be deceptions everywhere....Did he not? He said many would come on the basis of his name saying "I am he". Think how the WT hijacked the term "Truth" for itself when in fact Jesus is, "The Way, The TRUTH, and the Life". - A near EXACT fulfillment of Jesus prediction.

Think of 2 Tim 3: 16 where it says that just by reading the bible a person can be complete, whole, lackng nothing, completely equipped. Did we believe that scripture as JW's? Noooo, we kept on right ahead practicing our idolatry.

It you like defeat, go ahead and continue in your self pity. If you want to win, if you want to defeat the enemy, if you want to avoid judgment after death, if you want to assist in shoving the devil down his little hell-filled snake-hole where he came from, then get up, stand up, dust yourself off, start believing God, & start experiencing victory in Christ Jesus.

22

2 Cor 11:4 PROVES there were various versions of Jesus and gospels BEFORE the gospels

by yadda yadda 2 in

the gospels were written after paul's epistles.

this is commonly acknowledged by both apologist and neutural bible scholars.

yet we see that paul says clearly in 2 corinthians 11:4 that persons were preaching different versions of jesus and different gospels before the orthodox canonized gospels were written:.

Perry

So, Paul counsels not to listen to false gospels and that somehow proves the gospels are false? That's weird.

We would all have done well to follow Paul's advice. It would have saved us from a self serving cult.

"But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ." 2 Cor. 11:3

He's just saying to "Keep it simple". You're a sinner, Jesus offers a substitute death in place of the death penalty for YOUR sin. It is good news that this pardon is even offered. You should take the offer.

That's the gospel..... Very simple.

35

I love my life, I don't want to die

by losingit in

hello everyone..... i've been thinking a lot lately, when i have a chance to be alone my mind immediately comes to the topic at hand-- i don't want to die.

what would happen to my precious little girls?

but i'm so scared that it's going to happen.

Perry

Praying is good. Prayer is one of life's greatest weapons. God listens to the humble. He listens more to those that believe him. He is against the proud. It's just about that simple.