has anyone ever met any members of this group?.
i met a lovely lady who was telling me all about it.. apparently everything in the bible is literal, and it rather disconcerted me just how much i rememberd if it all.. everytime i asked do you mean that everything is literally true, apparently it is so..... she is a genuineky sincere, well meaning lady, and had a lovely time telling me all about it!.
I meant to read and understand the Bible in a plain or straightforward manner, as opposed to "spiritualizing" like the WT does. After reading the bible for years through a WT lens, it was refreshing to read it in a straight forward manner.
What books have you found contradictory?
even the mennonites won't be left behind in having an out of date and hard to use website!
this announcement was 2 months ago but still is rather interesting.
"we are pleased to announce that a new mennonite church usa website will be launched over the weekend of july 5-6!
The Mennonites have an interesting history being descendants of European believers who did not need the 'services' of the oppressive and apostate Papacy.
There were many, many groups that were consulted by politically connected individuals that helped spawn what we now refer to as the Reformation.
Anabaptists
Albigenses
Hussites (John Huss)
Waldenses
Donatists, etc.
Salvation by Grace Alone Through Faith Alone has a very long history. It is a history that could have saved us all a lot of trouble and kept us out of a cult had we been aware of it.
1- pray to god (whomever you may imagine him to be) asking for understanding.
2- study the background about the bible (from non-religious sources) to see where it came from.
3- discard (or at least set aside) chuyrch claims and dogma.. 4- read it, looking up archaeological/historical sources about the places and peoples referred to.
When I left the WT I told my Presiding Overseer brother that I was going this ALONE with only God having my back. I told him I was rowing my own boat from here on out and God could be the rudder.
Jesus has not let me down, once I put him fully in charge of my life. It did take a while before I figured out that Jesus was the one that I needed to do business with. Once I got that straight, everything, and I mean EVERYTHING fell into place for me in many different ways.
question:.
how did a proven "fake," "phony" arrangement [like "governing body" arrangement]...become the "faithful & discreet slave" arrangement???.
so then if it can be proven, the "governing body" term and arrangement is a farce, a fake, a made-up nonscriptural arrangement itself, (made up and concocted by nathan knorr & frederick franz in 1944) then how can this fake arrangement now suddenly become the "faithful & discreet slave" that jesus spoke of?
Most Christian Denominations have the equivalent of the Governing Body.
This is not true. Most protestant denominations "protested" (hence the term PROTESTANT)this kind of heresy where someone or some group, like the Papacy positioned itself as co-mediator or as an exclusive moutpiece for God to all men on earth. This is a unique characteristic of a cult.
it's been said before that once you know ttatt, then you listen with very different ears to talks at conventions.
i thought the second symposium this year on saturday morning of the convention was particularly terrible - here's what i had as the summary of the four parts:.
those "who are poor".
The "Christ's brothers" schtick of the WT always bothered me.
Christ's brothers are primarily his Israeli countrymen. Others were later "grafted in", but that doesn't change the most literal meaning.
Jesus once said, "I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel."
as we know, nebuchadnezzar could not conquer the island of tyre, so he could not fulfill what was predicted in ezekiel chapter 26. many years later, ezekiel admitted that the prediction failed in chapter 29:.
17 and it came to pass in the twenty-seventh year, in the first month, on the first day of the month, that the word of the lord came to me, saying, 18 son of man, nebuchadnezzar king of babylon caused his army to labor strenuously against tyre; every head was made bald, and every shoulder rubbed raw; yet neither he nor his army received wages from tyre, for the labor which they expended on it.
19 therefore thus says the lord god: surely i will give the land of egypt to nebuchadnezzar king of babylon; he shall take away her wealth, carry off her spoil, and remove her pillage; and that will be the wages for his army.
Here are some other thoughts:
After a closer look at the text, however, such an interpretation is misguided. Ezekiel began his prophecy by stating that “many nations” would come against Tyre (26:3). Then he proceeded to name Nebuchadnezzar, and stated that “he” would build a siege mound, “he” would slay with the sword, and “he” would do numerous other things (26:7-11). However, in 26:12, the pronoun shifts from the singular “he” to the plural “they.” It is in verse 12 and following that Ezekiel predicts that “they” will lay the stones and building material of Tyre in the “midst of the waters.” The shift in pronouns is of vast significance, since it shifts the subject of the action from Nebuchadnezzar (he) back to the many nations (they). Till and others fail to see this shift and mistakenly apply the utter destruction of Tyre to the efforts of Nebuchadnezzar.
Furthermore, Ezekiel was well aware of Nebuchadnezzar’s failure to destroy the city. Sixteen years after his initial prediction, in the 27th year of Johoiachin’s captivity (circa 570 B.C. ), he wrote: “Son of man, Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon caused his army to labor strenuously against Tyre; every head was made bald, and every shoulder rubbed raw; yet neither he nor his army received wages from Tyre, for the labor which they expended on it” (29:18). Therefore, in regard to the prophecy of Tyre as it relates to Nebuchadnezzar’s activity, at least two of the elements were fulfilled (i.e., the siege mound and the slaying of the inhabitants in the field).
Regarding the prediction that “many nations” would come against Tyre, the historical records surrounding the illustrious city report such turmoil and war that Ezekiel’s prophecy looks like a mild understatement of the facts. After Nebuchadnezzar’s attack of the city “a period of great depression” plagued the city which was assimilated into the Persian Empire around 538 B.C. (Fleming, p. 47). In 392 B.C. , “Tyre was involved in the war which arose between the Persians and Evagorus of Cyprus” in which the king of Egypt “took Tyre by assault” (p. 52). Sixty years later, in 332, Alexander the Great besieged Tyre and crushed it (see below for further elaboration). Soon after this defeat, Ptolemy of Egypt conquered and subjugated Tyre until about 315 B.C. when Atigonus of Syria besieged Tyre for 15 months and captured it (Fleming, p. 65). In fact, Tyre was contested by so many foreign forces that Fleming wrote: “It seemed ever the fate of the Phoenician cities to be between an upper and a nether millstone” (p. 66). Babylon, Syria, Egypt, Rome, Greece, Armenia, and Persia are but a sampling of the “many nations” that had a part in the ultimate destruction of Tyre. Thus, Ezekiel’s prophecy about “many nations” remains as a historical reality that cannot be successfully gainsaid.
has anyone ever met any members of this group?.
i met a lovely lady who was telling me all about it.. apparently everything in the bible is literal, and it rather disconcerted me just how much i rememberd if it all.. everytime i asked do you mean that everything is literally true, apparently it is so..... she is a genuineky sincere, well meaning lady, and had a lovely time telling me all about it!.
Literal should be the mindset when reading the bible.
Someone once said: "If the plain sense makes sense, do try to change it because you might end up with non-sense"
well, i have finally got rid of my baptism cards.
the congratulations cards....the wt ones, the ones with sheep on etc.... all gone.
they dated back to 23/09/2000.. has anyone else "purged" their witness past this way?.
I had a nice bonfire in my back yard using every scrap of WT literature I could find which was quite a library. Soon after lighting it I turned away because someone was talking to me about something. When I turned my head back to look at the fire a snake about 18 inches long was lumped over one of the books dead as can be.
I have no idea how that snake got there, probably got smoked out of the brush under the books and died trying to get away. It was an appropriate sign nonetheless.
as i was growing up in a household with my grandparents, i heard a certain phrase hundreds of times, "well, you know what they say .
and i wondered: "who are "they"?.
it was my first encounter with shapeless, formless, invisible, abstract, non-descript, and anonymous authority.. the premise seemed to say:.
Thank for highlighting this truth Steve.
