Posts by Perry

99

Leaving the JWs, experiencing Christianity and finding freedom! (But it took awhile)

by im_free in

this is my first post here.. i was raised in "the truth", and am an ex-bethelite who worked in brooklyn for several years back in the 90's.

a few years after i left bethel, i started to become disillusioned after doing research about the society and reading crisis of conscience (i know..i wasn't supposed to do that lol).

i eventually stopped attending meetings and going out in service.

Perry

Now I am wondering, is there anyone else here that has had this experience?

I have. I thought I became a Christian for a while but then became disillusioned because I wasn't experiencing the victory that I read about in the NT. The liberal feel good church I was going to didn't help either. Sorta drifted into agnostic. But then, through a series of events I was forced to make a permanent decision for Christ. It was me hiding my "christianity" from my JW family that prevented Jesus from accepting my application for membership into his family.

When Jesus asks us to believe in him, he means him exclusively, and before anything else. When he says that we must be willing to say goodbye to our mothers and fathers to have a relationship with him, he wasn't just blowing hot air. He meant it. I wasted alot of time testing that and got no where.

After I believed (and more importantly trusted) the Lord Jesus Christ, my life really took off....slowly at first, but nonetheless progressive. Consistent victories, amid great challenges.

The turning point was when I burned my bridges with my 4th generation JW family... torched them down to the ground, by challenging them to find EVEN ONE SCRIPTURE that would indicate a person could get saved from judgment outside of the New Covenant. I'm still waiting.

Immediate and drastic shunning of me, my new wife, and two new born children quickly followed. They were sure it was just a phase I was going through. Over the last ten years I have continually taken the battle to heaven. My prayer group at church prays for them regularly. I can now have infrequent visits and challenge things from the bible, and not hide like a coward.

I am no longer ashamed of Jesus and he is no longer ashamed of me. The battle that I have concerning my family of origin, is to the death, mine or theirs. I will never hold them responsible for their idolatry and shunning. I love them. I will fight this battle on my knees for them until they are strong enough to take a stand for themselves.

I would highly encourage anyone wishing to get right with God and experience his power and victory to do the same.

We have dozens of relatives that are JW's, I was a regular pioneer, brothers and Dad all elders and Ministerial Servants, lots of of other elder relatives. My mother has been baptized for 71 years and attended the first Kingdom Hall in Houston, Texas. I was a 3rd gen on my dad's side and 4th gen on my moms side.

My children are now 2nd generation Christians.

114

Early Evidence for 1 John 5: 7

by Perry in

italic 4th and 5th century.

629 in the 14th century.

429 in the 14th century (margin).

Perry

Thank you VH.

Yadda,

If not true, for what purpose would a bunch of fisherman want to ruin their lives with their friends, realtives and family and then face Roman execution?

Article

Excerpt:

Isn’t it possible that the gospel writers fabricated details to make it appear that Jesus fulfilled the Messianic passages of the Old Testament? For example, one passage foreshadows that the Messiah’s bones would remain unbroken (see Psalm 34:20), so maybe John invented the story about the Romans breaking the legs of the two thieves being crucified with Jesus and not breaking his legs (see John 19:31–36). Another prophecy talks about Judas’ betrayal for 30 pieces of silver (prophesied in Zechariah 11:12–13 and fulfilled in Matthew 26:15; 27:3–7). Could it be that Matthew played fast and loose with the facts and said, yeah, Judas sold out Jesus for that same amount?

Pastor Louis Lapides has spent 30 years studying prophecies found within Scripture. He quickly settles these objections: “In God’s wisdom, he created checks and balances both inside and outside the Christian community. When the Gospels were being circulated, there were people living who had been around when all these things happened. Someone would have said to Matthew, ‘You know it didn’t happen that way. We’re trying to communicate a life of righteousness and truth, so don’t taint it with a lie.’”

Why would Matthew have fabricated fulfilled prophecies and then have been willing to be put to death for following someone who he secretly knew was really not the Messiah? That wouldn’t make any sense. What’s more, the Jewish community would have jumped on any opportunity to discredit the Gospels by pointing out falsehoods. “They would have said, ‘I was there, and Jesus’ bones were broken by the Romans during the crucifixion,’” Lapides says. “And even though the Jewish Talmud refers to Jesus in derogatory ways, it never once makes the claim that the fulfillment of prophecies was falsified. Not one time.”

Some really good treatment of source material is also found here

114

Early Evidence for 1 John 5: 7

by Perry in

italic 4th and 5th century.

629 in the 14th century.

429 in the 14th century (margin).

Perry

Thankfully, most of us have learned since the Wt to just read the bible ourselves, like the Isaiah 53 text, and make up our own minds.

114

Early Evidence for 1 John 5: 7

by Perry in

italic 4th and 5th century.

629 in the 14th century.

429 in the 14th century (margin).

Perry

Hundreds of fulfilled prophecies are not something that can be made up on the fly, we don't live long enough to pull something like that off.

114

Early Evidence for 1 John 5: 7

by Perry in

italic 4th and 5th century.

629 in the 14th century.

429 in the 14th century (margin).

Perry

The issue on 1 Tim 3:16 is just one of many problems with the Westcott and Hort Minority text as opposed to the Majority text accepted for hundreds of years before their influence.

For a comparison of differences between the Minority and Majority Greek texts as it relates to the Deity of Jesus, see my research here.

On 1 Tim 3:16 - it does not say "God was manifest in the flesh". Look at an interlinear.

Look at a Majority Text Interlinear and you will find it there.

114

Early Evidence for 1 John 5: 7

by Perry in

italic 4th and 5th century.

629 in the 14th century.

429 in the 14th century (margin).

Perry

The quote about Cyprian is from the source I quoted, not from me. Yet still, at only 100 to 150 years out from the original autographs, it would have been hard for him to introduce such a thing unchallenged. There are no records of such a critique. Access to the original was certainly possible at that time.

114

Early Evidence for 1 John 5: 7

by Perry in

italic 4th and 5th century.

629 in the 14th century.

429 in the 14th century (margin).

Perry

Getting back to the topic......

Among the clearest texts in the Bible that show that Christ was both man and God is 1 Timothy 3:16. The Authorised Version translated this as:

And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

1 Timothy 3:16 as cited by Church Fathers

Article

114

Early Evidence for 1 John 5: 7

by Perry in

italic 4th and 5th century.

629 in the 14th century.

429 in the 14th century (margin).

Perry

Chris- No, Rabbis interpret the Servant in Isaiah to be the Jewish people.

That's somewhat like saying that drowned people don't get haircuts anymore. They don't because they are no longer alive. It is simply a statement of the obvious. Countless Jews have become Christian from reading and BELIEVING.

The ones that view the Servant as Jesus are now Christians, not Rabbis.

Is. 53:

He was despised and rejected by mankind,
a man of suffering, and familiar with pain.
Like one from whom people hide their faces
he was despised, and we held him in low esteem.

4 Surely he took up our pain
and bore our suffering,
yet we considered him punished by God,
stricken by him, and afflicted.

5 But he was pierced for our transgressions,
he was crushed for our iniquities;
the punishment that brought us peace was on him,
and by his wounds we are healed.

6 We all, like sheep, have gone astray,
each of us has turned to our own way;
and the Lord has laid on him
the iniquity of us all.

7 He was oppressed and afflicted,
yet he did not open his mouth;
he was led like a lamb to the slaughter,
and as a sheep before its shearers is silent,
so he did not open his mouth.

8 By oppression and judgment he was taken away.
Yet who of his generation protested?
For he was cut off from the land of the living;
for the transgression of my people he was punished.
9 He was assigned a grave with the wicked,
and with the rich in his death,
though he had done no violence,
nor was any deceit in his mouth.

10 Yet it was the Lord ’s will to crush him and cause him to suffer,
and though the Lord makes his life an offering for sin,
he will see his offspring and prolong his days,
and the will of the Lord will prosper in his hand.

11 After he has suffered,
he will see the light of life and be satisfied
by his knowledge my righteous servant will justify many,
and he will bear their iniquities.

And in Zech. 13:6 the Jews that are left over after the battle of Armageddon will once again be able to approach Jesus and say:

And it shall come to pass in that day, that the prophets shall be ashamed every one of his vision, when he hath prophesied; ....and one shall say unto him, What are these wounds in thine hands? Then he shall answer, Those with which I was wounded in the house of my friends.

He's coming back to finish what he started as sure are the sun will rise tomorrow morning.

114

Early Evidence for 1 John 5: 7

by Perry in

italic 4th and 5th century.

629 in the 14th century.

429 in the 14th century (margin).

Perry

designs,

I think it matters a lot to some people. This information was never presented to me as a Jehovah's witness. That was before the internet of course.

114

Early Evidence for 1 John 5: 7

by Perry in

italic 4th and 5th century.

629 in the 14th century.

429 in the 14th century (margin).

Perry

Early manuscript evidence that exists for I John 5:7,8

Early church writers that used it:

Cyprian 200 - 258 AD. "The Lord says, 'I and the Father are one;' and again it is written of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, 'And these three are one'." If Cyprian quotes I John 5:7 from his Bible in 200• 258 AD, it must be a valid reading. His Bible was copied from an older manuscript containing this verse.

Cyprian lived only 100 years after John wrote the book of I John. Cyprian would have had access to the original manuscript to check.

• Priscillian 350 AD, a Spanish bishop quotes I John 5:7,8.
• Idacius Clarus 360 AD, who opposed Priscillian quotes it.
• Varimadum 380 AD.
• Cassiodorus 485 AD.
• Cassian 435 AD.
• Victor Vita 489 AD.
• Jerome 450 AD.
• Fulgentius 533 AD.
• Ps. Vigilius 484 AD.
• Ansbert 660 AD.

Early bible versions that include it:
Old Syriac 170 AD.
Old Latin 200 AD, in North Africa and Italy.
Italic 4th and 5th century. – Italic • Monacensis 7th century.
Italic • Speculum 9th century.
Latin Vulgate 4th, 5th century.

Greek miniscule manuscripts that include it:
• 221 in the 10th century.(variant).
• 88 in the 12th century.(margin).
• 629 in the 14th century.(Ottobanianus)
• 429 in the 14th century (margin).
• 636 in the 15th century. (margin).
• 61 in the 16th century.(Codex Montfortianus)
• 918 in the 16th century. (an Escorial ms).
• 2318 (a Bucharest manuscript).

Article