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Posts by Perry
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63
EXACTLY Why JW's Are NOT Christian
by Perry ina lot of people, ex-jws, believers and unbelievers alike, think that jw's are just a somewhat kooky brand of christianity.
is it possible to "try and follow jesus" and not be christian?
what exactly makes someone a christian?
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Perry
You are cherry picking Scriptures to support your position as to what was most important to Jesus, just as JWs do.
JWfacts,
You don't like his words because his words are truth. They are facts. Facts that you cannot change no matter how hard you wish to change them. It is ridiculous for you to make a distinction between a Christian and a follower of Jesus. Jesus is qualified to state what constitutes a follower. It is silly to suggest otherwise.
In order to be a disciple of Jesus (Christian) a person has to get to the point where they give it all up....ALL OF IT.
The Romans were very practical people. They required a small percentage to pay for their war machine that they mastered through discipline. In exchange for the tax, they provided an army that the locals could never manufacture on their own to buffet marauding bands, dictator hopefuls and even strong common criminals. It is against this backdrop of practicality that Jesus stated his terms for peace with God.
Or what king, going to make war against another king, sitteth not down first and consulteth whether he be able with ten thousand to meet him that cometh against him with twenty thousand?
32 Or else, while the other is yet a great way off, he sendeth an envoy and desireth conditions of peace.
33 So likewise, whosoever he be of you that forsaketh not all that he hath, he cannot be My disciple.And this is what it is going to take for you or I or anyone else to be born again and avoid judgment. Infant baptism, cow-towing to the Pope or the Governing Body of JW's or the Mormon Priesthood or any other supposed method of getting right with God.
Jesus made it clear that the cost of his protection wasn't a percentage of your production like the Romans. It was ALL OF IT.
And in exchange for that, a person receives not just a service, but sonship. Sonship into a royal family that already owns everything that there is to own. And since the family already owns everything, works are not primary. Stewardship determines position because a person cannot work for something they already own.
And it all starts with a contract, the one JW's deny and reject each memorial.
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63
EXACTLY Why JW's Are NOT Christian
by Perry ina lot of people, ex-jws, believers and unbelievers alike, think that jw's are just a somewhat kooky brand of christianity.
is it possible to "try and follow jesus" and not be christian?
what exactly makes someone a christian?
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Perry
The definition of Christian is someone that believes in Christ,
This is YOUR definition not Christs' definition. And since we are discussing what constitutes a Christian, his words are what matter not yours or muslims or mine.
Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.22Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Belief that Jesus existed and even doing good works in his name doesn't make a person a Christian, or make them covered by the new covenant.
Jesus answered and said to him, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.”
4 Nicodemus said to Him, “How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born?”
5 Jesus answered, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’ 8 The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit.” .... “He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. - Jesus
A person who does not give up all that he has, he cannot be Jesus disciple. And, this is what it takes to be born again. A Christian divests himself from his rights and is able to say without hypocrisy, "do with me what thou wilt".... fully submitted for better of for worse.
Who says acceptance of the covenant is fundamental? Scriptures such as Acts 16:31, John 17:3 shows it is belief in Jesus.
And the beliefs we choose to accept PROVE whether or not we believe Jesus. If Jesus says to enter into an agreement with him "for the forgiveness of sins" his sheep will listen to him and do it. They will not listen to another voice indefinitely, even if there was some initial confusion.
Further, JWs do accept the New Covenant, they just believe it is mediated to them through the anointed.
Again, Jesus says something else:
For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
The agreement that Jesus mediates between God and Men is the identifying factor of what makes it possible for a anyone to survive judgment. Those that are destined for this pardon, are called Christians.
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74
That's it! The Jesus stories are most reasonably explained as myth. History makes this obvious.
by Island Man ina careful examination of the historical pagan religious context existing at the time of the genesis of christianity leads any reasonable person to conclude that jesus is just another one of several similar myths.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kn7teoa9ark.
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Perry
For example the idea that the gospels are a true account of the first century is false, Christianity with Jesus is a fourth century phenomenon.
And as many point out, scholarship utterly destroys this claim:
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63
EXACTLY Why JW's Are NOT Christian
by Perry ina lot of people, ex-jws, believers and unbelievers alike, think that jw's are just a somewhat kooky brand of christianity.
is it possible to "try and follow jesus" and not be christian?
what exactly makes someone a christian?
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Perry
There are 30,000 Christian sects
And Jehovah's Witnesses are unique in their outright rejection of the New Covenant, the one that offers forgiveness of sins.
In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins - Eph. 1 : 7
Then He took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, “Drink from it, all of you. 28 For this is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins. - Matthew 26: 27&28
Jehovah's Witnesses reject the Blood of the Covenant for themselves personally. This is fundamental to what being a Christian is. This is the primary reason why they are not Christian. There IS NOT ONE NEW TESTAMENT SCRIPTURE that describes how a person can get their sins forgiven outside of the New Covenant.
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447
Does Anyone Still Believe in God?
by LaurenM indo any of you ex-jw's still believe in god?
even with the new rebranding/softening of this religion, i still don't see how people can believe in him.
the god of the old testimate is an angry murderer who approved rapes and slavery and killed thousands of men, women and children.
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Perry
Everyone believes in God. It is instinctual. There hasn't ever been a culture without belief in God.
With the discovery of DNA, (and many other things) we have what statistics PROVE is evidence of intelligent design.
God never acknowledges the existence of atheists in the bible. He only says, "The fool has said in his heart, there is no God."
God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, 19 because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. - Romans 1
People know that God exists, they just suppress it. Regardless of the nice things that unsaved people say from time to time about God, the reality is that they really don't like him. This is because psychologically we know that we are God's enemy and he ours - by nature. We cover it all up with religion, good works, pride, more good works etc.; it's all so tiresome.
The old vehicle can't be fixed. That's why Jesus said that we must be born again. Many people are just fine with their first birth and are not willing to go through another. The watchtower offered us a way to be religious without going through the circumcision of the spirit and getting born again. It seemed like something that we could control, and not too weird or radical. It didn't work.
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10
It's not your conduct, it's your status
by donny injw's often state that their practice of disfellowshipping is used to keep the congregation clean and free of "worldly" influences and the like, however that is just pure b.s.
in actual practice, all they actually care about is your status according to the watchtower society.
case in point is ray's situation.. ray disassociated himself about 20 years ago because elders and other jw's were constantly spreading false rumors after he quit attending meetings.
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Perry
His dad gave him instructions on how he is to behave so he will not have to cut him off.
The key is secrecy. As long as people sorta behave themselves and don't talk ill of Mother Church, then even if you leave you still will probably get thrown an emotional bone or two now and then by relatives.
The secrecy (facade) is what they want to protect the most.
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This newly leaked letter PROVES the WTS are hypocrates and do not speak the truth.
by Dunedain inafter reading this newly leaked letter, something profoundly "hit" me.
myself, being born a "witness", and most of us here, who have learned their teachings for years, know of the "importance" the gb/wts always placed on the watchtower and awake magazines, themselves.. from the magazines inception, from back in probably the 1920's, or somewhere that far back, the wts claimed that the preaching work, and specifically the distribution of these magazines, were a sign of the times, and a fulfilment of bible prophecy in these last days.
they would compare the watchtower magazine to a "stinging scorpion", claiming those magazines fulfilled that verse in revelation.
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Perry
I have long seen similarities between the Armstrong organization and the Watchtower.
At some point, the GB are going to have to jettisone the dating of second coming at 1914. When that happens, the general membership will be allowed to have a relationship with Christ through the New Covenant like they did in the beginning.
Who knows?
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63
EXACTLY Why JW's Are NOT Christian
by Perry ina lot of people, ex-jws, believers and unbelievers alike, think that jw's are just a somewhat kooky brand of christianity.
is it possible to "try and follow jesus" and not be christian?
what exactly makes someone a christian?
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Perry
Crazy Guy,
When I became a Christian I conducted business strictly with Jesus and was saved, since "there is no other name under heaven by which we are saved". But, Christians have always believed Jesus, the man, is irrevocably fused with the personage of the Son which has the same essence as Jehovah.
As my wife and I started going to services, especially more traditional services I was surprised how many references to Jehovah were made in the Hymnals. It is not uncommon to find songs that go back three to five hundred years affirming that the father and son are one essence.
Here's just one example.
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74
That's it! The Jesus stories are most reasonably explained as myth. History makes this obvious.
by Island Man ina careful examination of the historical pagan religious context existing at the time of the genesis of christianity leads any reasonable person to conclude that jesus is just another one of several similar myths.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kn7teoa9ark.
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