Posts by Perry

160

Beliefs About What Caused the Universe

by Perry in

the universe can be observed to be expanding.. an expanding universe must have had a beginning.

whatever begins to exist had a cause.

therefore the universe had a cause.

Perry

And something from nothing isn't magic? At least with magic you start with a magician. Materialists start with literally nothing. Why isn't this happening now?

Materialism:
The belief that there was nothing and nothing happened to nothing, and then nothing magically exploded for no reason creating everything and everywhere. Then, a bunch of the everything magically rearranged itself for no apparent reason into strands self-replicating bits of a mind-boggling four-letter coding system which then turned into you, which has no eternal purpose or accountability whatsoever.

160

Beliefs About What Caused the Universe

by Perry in

the universe can be observed to be expanding.. an expanding universe must have had a beginning.

whatever begins to exist had a cause.

therefore the universe had a cause.

Perry

We have seen people carving things and we have seen peacocks and we understand that people create art. Therefore when we see all of this together it is logical to conclude a conscious person did it.
No one has seen a god or witnessed a divine creation

AND, you have seen causes for effects. In fact, that's all you or anyone else has EVER seen. Why disregard this when it forces you to abandon Materialism?

If you want to believe what amounts to "doodle bugs" carving a wooden peacock. Fine, I don't personally have a problem with that. But your belief is utterly baseless and without precedent. Ever.

17

False reasoning behind some of the WT rules?

by nevaagain in

jw
friends

what are some false reasoning's behind some of the wt rules?.

birthdays:.

why is it forbidden as a jw to celebrate birthdays?

Perry

Do they consider the apostles part of the 144,000 or is it 144,000 plus the people in the bible?

They consider the apostles and ALL (true) Christians since them to be included in the 144K. until around 1919.

That's too many you say? Well, I guess they weren't really "true" Christians were they? (wink, wink)

It's hard for me to accept that I used to believe this stuff. 70 Million Christians have been martyred for their faith since the time of Christ.

6

My possibly " Unique" Trolly Witness....

by The Rebel in

jw
friends

i don't usually anti-witness anymore, but being out of town and bored i went up and introduced myself to a couple of sisters " trolly witnessing" then a voice from behind me spoke " if you don't mind i think i was in front of you".

i stepped back, apologising as i did so, and decided to continue with my day.. anyway this trivial incident i post because it may be quite unique, i mean i really can't imagine anywhere else in the world where people are queing up to speak to these people manning " trolly carts" can you?.

and on the whole i think that's a good thing, even if he was ahead of me only to anti-witness?.

Perry

I personally am grateful that one woman in field service took the time to explain to me that Christians believe in a paradise earth. They just call it the Millennium Reign. She obviously could see that I was confused on the issue and felt enough empathy to slowly and kindly explain it to me.

After I learned that, it kind of took the wind out of may sails.

The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. - Edmund Burke

I never got a chance to thank that lady. She may even think she is a failure as a Christian, and isn't very good at Witnessing.

160

Beliefs About What Caused the Universe

by Perry in

the universe can be observed to be expanding.. an expanding universe must have had a beginning.

whatever begins to exist had a cause.

therefore the universe had a cause.

Perry

If you assume a conscious body then you have not chosen the simplest explanation

WSICM,

If you were walking in the woods and found a large wooden carved artwork in the shape of a peacock with some doodle bugs crawling around on it. What would be the simplest explanation to explain its existence?

A. The unconscious doodle bugs did it?

B. A conscious person did it?

The doodle bugs are far simpler than a man, but are not the simplest explanation.

160

Beliefs About What Caused the Universe

by Perry in

the universe can be observed to be expanding.. an expanding universe must have had a beginning.

whatever begins to exist had a cause.

therefore the universe had a cause.

Perry

Cornbread,

Once you accept a cause beyond our space/time universe Occams razon doesn't apply. The simplest explanation is that space and time were manipulated as opposed to waiting around for 14 billion years.

Think of when you are looking for a particular scene in a movie that you wish to replay to show someone. You can certainly start from the beginning and make your guest wait an hour until the scene emerges, or you could just hit the Fast Forward button.Which is the simplest course of action, assuming the technology?

160

Beliefs About What Caused the Universe

by Perry in

the universe can be observed to be expanding.. an expanding universe must have had a beginning.

whatever begins to exist had a cause.

therefore the universe had a cause.

Perry

I don't believe the billions of years characterization of the universe. 17 times God says that he manipulated space and time to "stretch" out the heavens.

This action is consistent with someone with the power and intelligence to create space and time in the first place.

If the master inventor of space and time says he did it in 6 days; I believe him.

I do find it interesting that only since Einstein have we been thinking of space and time as a woven fabric, with waves, ripples and indentations. The bible likened it to a fabric back in the "bronze age":

Who coverest thyself with light as with a garment: who stretchest out the heavens like a curtain - Ps. 104:2

160

Beliefs About What Caused the Universe

by Perry in

the universe can be observed to be expanding.. an expanding universe must have had a beginning.

whatever begins to exist had a cause.

therefore the universe had a cause.

Perry

Perry, the only beginnings you have experience with are beginnings within time and space. You have no experience with beginnings outside of time and space. So I'm not sure that it's logical to assume that beginnings outside of time and space require a cause the same as beginnings within time and space.

Island Man,

I am not suggesting that the Cause of the universe had a beginning of any kind. It would by necessity, be an uncaused Cause. Why? Just connect the dots.

We can clearly ascertain that the universe had a beginning. Everything in our universe had a cause. The cause of the universe must be uncaused, otherwise its own cause would preceed it, placing it back in the space time universe which is impossible, if it caused it in the first place. See what I mean? Pretty simple logic.

Some of the folks here are just having a hard time imagining an existence of any kind without time. I suspect because it is a direct negation of Materialism which has been adopted by some who leave the watchtower. The human mind abhors a vacuum.

This argument (not to mention the science behind it) demonstrates the failure of Materialism to explain our existence.

17

False reasoning behind some of the WT rules?

by nevaagain in

jw
friends

what are some false reasoning's behind some of the wt rules?.

birthdays:.

why is it forbidden as a jw to celebrate birthdays?

Perry

The wife is bound by the law as long as her husband liveth; but if her husband be dead, she is at liberty to be married to whom she will; only in the Lord. - 1 Cor. 7

In the plainest reading (not to mention historical understanding) "In the Lord" refers only to those who accept the New Covenant for the remission of their own personal sins. (For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God - Col. 3:3)

This is not meant to be a burden, but to create happiness and to avoid conflict:

And this I speak for your own profit; not that I may cast a snare upon you - 1 Cor. 7

17

False reasoning behind some of the WT rules?

by nevaagain in

jw
friends

what are some false reasoning's behind some of the wt rules?.

birthdays:.

why is it forbidden as a jw to celebrate birthdays?

Perry

the WT values the holiness of blood over the Jehovah's gift of life.

The whole idea of blood being holy and sacred was to prepare people for a great deliverance from the death penalty prescribed to free moral agents (unlike animals) such as ourselves. The great millstone around every person's neck was going to be overturned one day - "The Wages of Sin is Death"

Not just any blood is holy, that is the point the Watchtower fails to teach. They seem to teach that just any blood is sacred and holy, in itself.

Jesus' blood is holy because he was without sin, did not posses a sin nature like us and he willingly paid the death penalty for the sins each of us are guilty of, if we accept the payment along with the agreement to have our sin nature taken away. Many people don't want their sin nature taken away. God honors choices. Our choices have eternal consequences.

And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, Drink ye all of it;
For this is my blood of the new testament [or covenant], which is shed for many for the remission of sins. Mt. 26: 27, 28

Jesus shows in this scripture that his blood covenant is specifically for the remission of sins. Distinctively, the watchtower teaches that the New Covenant is for government positions in his Kingdom, and that it is only available to the mostly already dead 144K. (In other words, not available. Too bad you missed out)

The whole convoluted blood doctrine(s) that the Watchtower teaches is designed to hide in plain sight the simple teaching that permanent escape from sin and death is available for "whosoever will".

And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take of the water of life freely." (Revelation 22:17)