Posts by Perry

18

Since My Mom's Death--not a JW in sight !

by minimus in

jw
friends

i had one lovebombing when she died by the congregation and since then---- nada.

lol.

Perry

Sorry to hear about your mom's passing. Maybe start a new chapter in your life now that your mom is gone? Maybe new friends, a new church?

32

God does not desire any to be destroyed?

by stuckinarut2 in

so if the idea is promoted that god doesn't want anyone to be destroyed, why does he make it so confusing for people to learn about him?.

why are there thousands of differing religions?.

why has "his only true organisation" even taught so many varying doctrines?.

Perry

Satan can be the cause of death and get millenniums of years to live; I inherit death from Eve and I get 70 years. Makes perfect sense doesn't it?

OGTG,

I think you are making a common mistake in defining death. This is understandable from a JW/7th Day Adventist background. For humans, when you are separated from your body, you are biblically dead.

The idea of consciousness after death was widely accepted from Israel's earliest times, contrary to what the Watchtower would have its members believe.
The lexicographical evidence is so clear that the great Princeton scholar, B. B. Warfield; stated that with modern Hebrew scholars, there is no “hesitation to allow with all heartiness that Israel from the beginning of its recorded history cherished the most settled conviction of the persistence of the soul in life after death. The body is laid in the grave and the soul departs to Sheol.”2 George Eldon Ladd in The New Bible Dictionary (p. 380), comments: In the Old Testament, man does not cease to exist at death, but his soul descends to Sheol.
ARTICLE

Humans alone are made in the image of God as a tri-partite being - spirit, soul & body. This is in imitation of our triune creator. Spirits are not said to have been made in the image of God. WE were. We have a spirit and ARE a spirit.

You will be conscious eternally. There is NOTING you can do to change this. It is pre-built into the design of humans.

The thing about God is that he is in the business of creating victory & freedom. He doesn't leave us in our bitterness, self pity, blame and discontent. Yes, he must do his duty one day at judgment, but his primary business is one of restoration.

He is the God of the 2nd, 3rd, 4th, ....77th chance, especially in this age of Grace. He has a destiny for each one of us to restore each of us to his/her rightful place as a royal family member.

The work of Gods enemies are powerless against God's ability to restore brokenness.

32

God does not desire any to be destroyed?

by stuckinarut2 in

so if the idea is promoted that god doesn't want anyone to be destroyed, why does he make it so confusing for people to learn about him?.

why are there thousands of differing religions?.

why has "his only true organisation" even taught so many varying doctrines?.

Perry

All 7 billion people now alive are going to die one way or another if the Lord tarries.

God identifies this unnecessary fate as being cause by a separation from him, the continual Source of life.

Of course, when we contemplate our own death, the timing of it seems like a big deal. In reality, there is never a really good way....or day to die. Some are just a little better than others.

So the reasoning that it is God's fault that people die is false. He did not cause the separation, and we are not autonomous beings with our own life-source to keep us and the universe intact. So, death is inevitable ....... except God intervened.

It would have been a travesty of a monumental evil if God would have created moral beings with notions and appreciation of laws and at the same time not allowed for the judgment of those who would hurt others. In this scenario, God would actually be the source of the evil perpetrated since he created the possibility of evil with no mechanism to punish it.

Since there is no evil with God, he could have chosen to just make us another of the many animals without morals, or he could have chosen to eventually judge the evil done by his moral creatures. In his wisdom, he chose the latter.

The problem is we like to play God and be the one who decides who should be punished for their evil. Of course my evil should never be punished because I have very good reasons for my evil. God does away with this pettiness.

But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe. - Galatians 3:22

Because Jesus actually became sin for us, (2 Cor. 5: 21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin) , the original gift of choice was restored. We are in the highly favored position of being able to choose life or death.

But never for a moment think that God will be derelict in his duty in judging sin. That would make him evil and the source of the sin, which he is not.

32

God does not desire any to be destroyed?

by stuckinarut2 in

so if the idea is promoted that god doesn't want anyone to be destroyed, why does he make it so confusing for people to learn about him?.

why are there thousands of differing religions?.

why has "his only true organisation" even taught so many varying doctrines?.

Perry

Usually, the reason that God attacks is to defend His friends (those that love Him) -that is what happens at Armageddon.

Thank you for mentioning that Fisherman. The watchtower paints "Armageddon" as a sort of Judgment Day for all mankind. It most certainly is not. It is a rescue mission: "if those days were not cut short no flesh would be saved".

By the time Armageddon happens, 2/3 of the population will have already died in the wars of the Antichrist as he attempts to rule the world for a short time. By this time, the "church" (global body of child-like believers) will most likely be gone from the earth in the rapture. But, salvation does not end at the rapture.

As far as the understandability of biblical truth goes; Jesus said that we must be like children to enter his coming kingdom. It is a very simple thing that God has made in order for anyone to have eternal life:

He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life - John 3: 36a

This seems pretty fair to me. I didn't ask to be burdened by sin and not able to live out all my moral aspirations.

Disbelieving God (Eve) is what separated me from God; likewise a lifestyle of believing God is what saves me from my due judgment as a morally endowed creature. This is not a concern of mine anymore. I am free to turn my attention toward other more productive pursuits.

Having lived a lifestyle of believing God now for several years, I cannot imagine living any other way. While simple, it isn't easy. But, the fruit it produces is most enjoyable. WAY better than the temporary enjoyment of sin.

I came to the conclusion that believing God, required me to take a stand against the Watchtower. I discontinued my fade for this reason: To make my belief in God sure, I sent a letter to my father and two older brothers who were elders explaining my shift from belief in an organization to belief in Christ alone.

I believe that God has honored this stand and blessed me in many other ways that I would not have otherwise experienced had I just continued to fade away.

32

God does not desire any to be destroyed?

by stuckinarut2 in

so if the idea is promoted that god doesn't want anyone to be destroyed, why does he make it so confusing for people to learn about him?.

why are there thousands of differing religions?.

why has "his only true organisation" even taught so many varying doctrines?.

Perry

With God it is simple:

Paul quotes Genesis 15:6 twice.

For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. (Romans 4:3 KJV)

Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness. (Galatians 3:6 KJV)

And James quotes Genesis 15:6 once.

And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God. (James 2:23 KJV)

As Jehovah's Witnesses we chose not to believe God:

1. In that the New Covenant was only for other people

2. That we could be good enough to earn salvation

3. We made the Watchtower Oranization our savior instead of christ alone.

Salvation by faith predates the Old and New Testaments, though both are very useful in illuminating the proper object of faith, and it has never been an organization - just God.

9

One of the Most Obscene Phrases in Any Language; the Judicial Committee

by TMS in

a tribunal of religious, if not spiritual, men, whose decision can alter lives, disrupt, no, destroy, families, ruin young lives, create angst, pain, depression, hopelessness, sorrow, despair can be the job for three typically unqualified men known in jw land as the judicial committee.. my first judicial experience as a kid of 18 serving on the jc involved disfellowshipping an elderly sister for apostacy when she would not promise to quit frequenting a neighborhood christian science reading room for personal study.

my second big case involved a baptized 12 year old who allegedly stole a hot wheel from k-mart.

he admitted to nothing, answering every question with "i dunno" and was put on probation, the 60's equivalent of reproof.. in subsequent years, i "served" on committees judging accused adulterers, fornicators, thieves, gamblers, non-providers, taking up boxing, slanderers and yes, apostates, sitting also on so-called appeal committees as well.

Perry

A tribunal of religious...men, whose decision can alter lives...destroy, families, ruin young lives, create angst, pain, depression, hopelessness, sorrow, despair...the job for three...men known... as the Judicial Committee.

Hi TMS,

Thank you for your honesty. I was just wondering if you have tried to reach out to any of the people whose lives you altered and apologized?

22

Disfellowshipping Question

by Elizabeth Thompson in

jw
friends

i have been a baptized witness for about 30 years.

from the time i was a kid.

i've been the only one in my family who is baptized until 15 years later when my mother got baptized.

Perry

Hi Elizabeth,

As I continue my research, I'm reminded that Jesus is the only mediator between God and mankind - not any elder-body or governing body.

Good point. Cults do not like the fact that Jesus can read hearts. He knows if someone has faith in him alone for salvation or not. Luther and Calvin worked all this out 500 years ago when the catholic church was presenting the Pope as Christs' substitute, Mary as Co-Mediator and their organization as essential for salvation. They still officially do claim that.

It is amazing to me that with all the history available to us that the Watchtower was able to virtually copy the co-mediator concept promoted by the papacy.

Glad to see you are waking up.

Blessings to you!

21

This Thing That Was My Mother

by TimeBandit in

jw
friends

this thing that was my mother.

this thing that was my mother, so withered and blackened now,.

was once so kind and loving, but things have changed somehow.. remember when you'd hold me, and soothe my childhood fears?.

Perry

Tyranny uses this tactic because truth threatens their god-like status. Your mother wouldn't be doing this if her idol didn't say it was necessary for her survival.

Idolatry in some form is usually at the bottom of most evils.

35

Born Twice - Die Once .... Born Once - Die Twice

by Perry in

jesus taught that we must die unto ourselves, and allow the holy spirit to take up residence within us.

some people get saved by simply inviting jesus into their hearts, to be the lord of their life.

this serves as a countering force within the born-again christian to counterbalance the will of the flesh, which is still unsaved in this life and destined for destruction in imitation of our lord himself.. attempting to live the christian life without having this spirit within you is a waste of time at the minimum, and dangerous on the downside.

Perry

I noticed that you didn't point out anything in particular that you found false.

Given all the evidence, it is not just overwhelming, but staggering. But, we are free moral creatures. We are perfectly free to interpret the evidence any way we choose. If there wasn't such a divergence of opinion, it would cause me to doubt the existence of free moral agency. Instead, it confirms it.

35

Born Twice - Die Once .... Born Once - Die Twice

by Perry in

jesus taught that we must die unto ourselves, and allow the holy spirit to take up residence within us.

some people get saved by simply inviting jesus into their hearts, to be the lord of their life.

this serves as a countering force within the born-again christian to counterbalance the will of the flesh, which is still unsaved in this life and destined for destruction in imitation of our lord himself.. attempting to live the christian life without having this spirit within you is a waste of time at the minimum, and dangerous on the downside.

Perry

Doug,

Several extra-biblical books are cited in the Bible in addition to Enoch. I have a copy of the book of Jasher that is also cited. It is an exciting read. These are considered historical works (history books) and as such have value. It is up to each person to decide if they are inspired or not.

I personally view these works as uninspired, not infallible history books.

This link covers a number of objections similar to your own, about 4/5 of the way down.

When Dr. Thiede analyzed the fragments from Matthew’s gospel found in Egypt by what is described above as “comparative paleography,” he analyzed these fragments from the gospel of Matthew and compared them with four other well-known and reliable reference manuscripts from a commensurate and known time periods.
• Document one: 79 A.D., from the Herculaneum
• Document two: 73-74 A.D., from Masada
• Document three: 65-66 A.D., from the Egyptian town of Oxyrynchus
• Document four: 58 A.D., from Masada
The style of handwriting from the first century is substantially different from the style of handwriting, just one hundred years later. In order to date a manuscript correctly, a handwriting style that is similar to the papyrus being analyzed must be found. For this reason, the four samples above—which came from similar areas of Israel, close to the same time period, were used. The conclusions from these careful comparisons revealed that many of the letters in these very early manuscripts bore a striking similarity to the letters in the Gospel of Matthew text that Dr. Thiede analyzed.[47]
Because many of the letters and the style of writing were so close, Dr. Thiede concluded that these three papyrus fragments must have been written between the time of the crucifixion, at about 32 A.D, and the destruction of Jerusalem by Titus in 70 A. D. This places the date of the writing for Matthew’s gospel at the time that he would have been alive and witnessed the actual events that are recorded in his gospel account.[48]
This means that Matthew is most certainly the true author of the gospel of Matthew.

So, if the gospels are all later additions, where are all the polemics attacking such a revision of events? The documents were in existence at the same time as the proported eyewitnesses and authors. The above mentioned fragments were likely original, or 1 gen copies.

I don't think the evidence points to anything other than the gospels being reliable recordings of actual events. Here are a number of other related links.

The Historical Record of Jesus Life from Secular Sources
Historical Evidence For Jesus Resurrection
The Overwhelming Empirical Evidence for Jesus Death and Resurrection
The New Testament Passes Every Literary Test of History
Empirical Evidence for the Resurrection of Jesus Christ
Empirical Integrity of the New Testament