I'm sorry the lack of love caused you so much pain. Take the high road, whatever that may be. Vindictiveness, however disguised always seems to consume.
Posts by Perry
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20It won’t be much longer now.
by Tameria2001 ina couple weeks back my husband got a phone call from his brother, whom he hasn’t spoken to in nearly 17 years.
well i take that back, he did speak to him at the family reunion, asking him to leave.
my husband basically told him to f off, he would leave when he’s darn good and ready, but he didn’t use the word darn.
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Revelation 5:9,10 and the 144,000
by Darkknight757 ini hesitate to ask this question.
during some recent research on youtube i came across a few videos explaining how watchtower manipulated revelation 5:10. revelation 5:10 "you have made them to be a kingdom and priests to serve our god,and they will reign on the earth.”" -niv.
the nwt13 renders this verse: 10 and you made them to be a kingdom+ and priests to our god,+ and they are to rule as kings+ over the earth.”.
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Perry
Dark Knight.
Thank you for your thoughts. I agree with much. I think a lot of Christians are perfectly happy in lumping together the 144K with the blood washed multitude.
After all, these peripheral hopes ARE NOT the hope of Church Age Christians, which is where we are still at - even though this dispensation is about to conclude.
Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ - Titus 2: 13
The blessed hope of Christians is the appearing. Church age believers are not hoping for surviving Armageddon, or the great tribulation, being good enough, Gods forgiveness, etc. God's forgiveness was guaranteed to believers on Calvary Hill with the final proclamation, "It is finished".
However, Jesus actually returns twice, once in the clouds...just as he left. At that time, the trump will sound and all the righteous dead will hear his voice and will rise to meet him in the air, with glorified bodies, like his. (not spirits) These people are caught up to meet him in the air. Jesus takes this group (1st resurrection) into heaven for one giant Almighty 7 Year PARTY!) This is one party no one should miss.
But I say unto you, I will not drink henceforth of this fruit of the vine, until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father's kingdom. - Mt 6:29
But, the catching up of believers is not the end of salvation. There are still two more groups:
1. 144k Israelites
2. The blood washed multitude
After the rapture, Jesus will not come back all the way to the earth until the Jewish people cry out "blessed is he who cometh in the name of the Lord". This will be at a very late hour after the Antichrist has devastated the earth with various wars.
Remember, the the OT contract is with the Nation of Israel, & was not made void by the ratification of the NT contract with individuals.
Both contracts guarantee survival. One is for the survival of a nation. One is for the survival of the individual. "Better promises" and better terms.
Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. - Romans 11
Christians are not the stalk. We are the "branches" that were "grafted in". The seed of the vine was the seed of faith planted by Abraham. It has been growing all this time on the earth.
So, there will be :
1. a salvation of primarily gentile (but also Jewish) believers who rule with Christ (Christians)
2. a national salvation of Israel after the rapture (which includes the 144K "out of every tribe")
3. an earthly salvation of people that will be left over in the earth after the rapture & after the great tribulation .
This last group attains entry into the earthly kingdom by nothing more than
a.) not taking the mark of the beast and
b.) being nice to the nation of Israel during the great tribulation. (The Antichrist seeks to destroy Israel but cannot)
This last group is somewhat clueless & surprised by their good fortune after witnessing so much carnage during the Great Tribulation:
Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?.........
And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
Those that did not join in with the hatred of the Jews in the GT will be allowed to enter the Millennium Reign.
Jesus will be the King of Israel. It is going to happen, nothing can stop it. And all the peoples of the earth will be incredibly blessed by it.
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Does the book of Ezekiel hint that the God of the Jews is not who they think he is?
by EndofMysteries inezekiel 28 talks about the "king of tyre" and in chap 28 starting vs 13 what he is made of.
it calls him a cherub and also lists these stones he was adorned with (here is something interesting....), "every precious stone adorned you:.
carnelian, chrysolite and emerald, topaz, onyx and jasper, lapis lazuli, turquoise and beryl.
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Perry
If any wisdom listed came from the Egyptians, it came from God anyway, even if only from their conscious. And if isolated extractions were made, the context is totally different than pagan thought.
I read the title of this thread and the OP twice and still could not determine what the point was.
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Since My Mom's Death--not a JW in sight !
by minimus ini had one lovebombing when she died by the congregation and since then---- nada.
lol.
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Perry
Sorry to hear about your mom's passing. Maybe start a new chapter in your life now that your mom is gone? Maybe new friends, a new church?
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God does not desire any to be destroyed?
by stuckinarut2 inso if the idea is promoted that god doesn't want anyone to be destroyed, why does he make it so confusing for people to learn about him?.
why are there thousands of differing religions?.
why has "his only true organisation" even taught so many varying doctrines?.
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Perry
Satan can be the cause of death and get millenniums of years to live; I inherit death from Eve and I get 70 years. Makes perfect sense doesn't it?
OGTG,
I think you are making a common mistake in defining death. This is understandable from a JW/7th Day Adventist background. For humans, when you are separated from your body, you are biblically dead.
The idea of consciousness after death was widely accepted from Israel's earliest times, contrary to what the Watchtower would have its members believe.
The lexicographical evidence is so clear that the great Princeton scholar, B. B. Warfield; stated that with modern Hebrew scholars, there is no “hesitation to allow with all heartiness that Israel from the beginning of its recorded history cherished the most settled conviction of the persistence of the soul in life after death. The body is laid in the grave and the soul departs to Sheol.”2 George Eldon Ladd in The New Bible Dictionary (p. 380), comments: In the Old Testament, man does not cease to exist at death, but his soul descends to Sheol.
Humans alone are made in the image of God as a tri-partite being - spirit, soul & body. This is in imitation of our triune creator. Spirits are not said to have been made in the image of God. WE were. We have a spirit and ARE a spirit.
You will be conscious eternally. There is NOTING you can do to change this. It is pre-built into the design of humans.
The thing about God is that he is in the business of creating victory & freedom. He doesn't leave us in our bitterness, self pity, blame and discontent. Yes, he must do his duty one day at judgment, but his primary business is one of restoration.
He is the God of the 2nd, 3rd, 4th, ....77th chance, especially in this age of Grace. He has a destiny for each one of us to restore each of us to his/her rightful place as a royal family member.
The work of Gods enemies are powerless against God's ability to restore brokenness.
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God does not desire any to be destroyed?
by stuckinarut2 inso if the idea is promoted that god doesn't want anyone to be destroyed, why does he make it so confusing for people to learn about him?.
why are there thousands of differing religions?.
why has "his only true organisation" even taught so many varying doctrines?.
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Perry
All 7 billion people now alive are going to die one way or another if the Lord tarries.
God identifies this unnecessary fate as being cause by a separation from him, the continual Source of life.
Of course, when we contemplate our own death, the timing of it seems like a big deal. In reality, there is never a really good way....or day to die. Some are just a little better than others.
So the reasoning that it is God's fault that people die is false. He did not cause the separation, and we are not autonomous beings with our own life-source to keep us and the universe intact. So, death is inevitable ....... except God intervened.
It would have been a travesty of a monumental evil if God would have created moral beings with notions and appreciation of laws and at the same time not allowed for the judgment of those who would hurt others. In this scenario, God would actually be the source of the evil perpetrated since he created the possibility of evil with no mechanism to punish it.
Since there is no evil with God, he could have chosen to just make us another of the many animals without morals, or he could have chosen to eventually judge the evil done by his moral creatures. In his wisdom, he chose the latter.
The problem is we like to play God and be the one who decides who should be punished for their evil. Of course my evil should never be punished because I have very good reasons for my evil. God does away with this pettiness.
But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe. - Galatians 3:22
Because Jesus actually became sin for us, (2 Cor. 5: 21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin) , the original gift of choice was restored. We are in the highly favored position of being able to choose life or death.
But never for a moment think that God will be derelict in his duty in judging sin. That would make him evil and the source of the sin, which he is not.
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God does not desire any to be destroyed?
by stuckinarut2 inso if the idea is promoted that god doesn't want anyone to be destroyed, why does he make it so confusing for people to learn about him?.
why are there thousands of differing religions?.
why has "his only true organisation" even taught so many varying doctrines?.
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Perry
Usually, the reason that God attacks is to defend His friends (those that love Him) -that is what happens at Armageddon.
Thank you for mentioning that Fisherman. The watchtower paints "Armageddon" as a sort of Judgment Day for all mankind. It most certainly is not. It is a rescue mission: "if those days were not cut short no flesh would be saved".
By the time Armageddon happens, 2/3 of the population will have already died in the wars of the Antichrist as he attempts to rule the world for a short time. By this time, the "church" (global body of child-like believers) will most likely be gone from the earth in the rapture. But, salvation does not end at the rapture.
As far as the understandability of biblical truth goes; Jesus said that we must be like children to enter his coming kingdom. It is a very simple thing that God has made in order for anyone to have eternal life:
He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life - John 3: 36a
This seems pretty fair to me. I didn't ask to be burdened by sin and not able to live out all my moral aspirations.
Disbelieving God (Eve) is what separated me from God; likewise a lifestyle of believing God is what saves me from my due judgment as a morally endowed creature. This is not a concern of mine anymore. I am free to turn my attention toward other more productive pursuits.
Having lived a lifestyle of believing God now for several years, I cannot imagine living any other way. While simple, it isn't easy. But, the fruit it produces is most enjoyable. WAY better than the temporary enjoyment of sin.
I came to the conclusion that believing God, required me to take a stand against the Watchtower. I discontinued my fade for this reason: To make my belief in God sure, I sent a letter to my father and two older brothers who were elders explaining my shift from belief in an organization to belief in Christ alone.
I believe that God has honored this stand and blessed me in many other ways that I would not have otherwise experienced had I just continued to fade away.
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God does not desire any to be destroyed?
by stuckinarut2 inso if the idea is promoted that god doesn't want anyone to be destroyed, why does he make it so confusing for people to learn about him?.
why are there thousands of differing religions?.
why has "his only true organisation" even taught so many varying doctrines?.
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Perry
With God it is simple:
Paul quotes Genesis 15:6 twice.
For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. (Romans 4:3 KJV)
Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness. (Galatians 3:6 KJV)
And James quotes Genesis 15:6 once.
And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God. (James 2:23 KJV)
As Jehovah's Witnesses we chose not to believe God:
1. In that the New Covenant was only for other people
2. That we could be good enough to earn salvation
3. We made the Watchtower Oranization our savior instead of christ alone.
Salvation by faith predates the Old and New Testaments, though both are very useful in illuminating the proper object of faith, and it has never been an organization - just God.
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One of the Most Obscene Phrases in Any Language; the Judicial Committee
by TMS ina tribunal of religious, if not spiritual, men, whose decision can alter lives, disrupt, no, destroy, families, ruin young lives, create angst, pain, depression, hopelessness, sorrow, despair can be the job for three typically unqualified men known in jw land as the judicial committee.. my first judicial experience as a kid of 18 serving on the jc involved disfellowshipping an elderly sister for apostacy when she would not promise to quit frequenting a neighborhood christian science reading room for personal study.
my second big case involved a baptized 12 year old who allegedly stole a hot wheel from k-mart.
he admitted to nothing, answering every question with "i dunno" and was put on probation, the 60's equivalent of reproof.. in subsequent years, i "served" on committees judging accused adulterers, fornicators, thieves, gamblers, non-providers, taking up boxing, slanderers and yes, apostates, sitting also on so-called appeal committees as well.
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Perry
A tribunal of religious...men, whose decision can alter lives...destroy, families, ruin young lives, create angst, pain, depression, hopelessness, sorrow, despair...the job for three...men known... as the Judicial Committee.
Hi TMS,
Thank you for your honesty. I was just wondering if you have tried to reach out to any of the people whose lives you altered and apologized?
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Disfellowshipping Question
by Elizabeth Thompson ini have been a baptized witness for about 30 years.
from the time i was a kid.
i've been the only one in my family who is baptized until 15 years later when my mother got baptized.
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Perry
Hi Elizabeth,
As I continue my research, I'm reminded that Jesus is the only mediator between God and mankind - not any elder-body or governing body.
Good point. Cults do not like the fact that Jesus can read hearts. He knows if someone has faith in him alone for salvation or not. Luther and Calvin worked all this out 500 years ago when the catholic church was presenting the Pope as Christs' substitute, Mary as Co-Mediator and their organization as essential for salvation. They still officially do claim that.
It is amazing to me that with all the history available to us that the Watchtower was able to virtually copy the co-mediator concept promoted by the papacy.
Glad to see you are waking up.
Blessings to you!