I suffer from "new kid on the block syndrome"
Fugitabouit. You are a champion! Welcome aboard!
Posts by Perry
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9Part One of what could be a long introduction
by LifesNotOver inhello - let me try to explain.
a couple of months ago or so i joined this forum, then shortly after checked out jwrecovery which seemed a better fit personally and joined them.
started to feel comfortable there and they closed, and i pouted for a while.
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Study article: "Go, and Make Disciples.." is a hot mess
by Sanchy inso i hooked into meeting via phone this week to listen in and was shocked at the absurdities mentioned in the study article (2016 may watchtower: "go,..and make disciples of people of all the nations").
the answer is obvious—only jehovah’s witnesses.
the answer the missionary priest gave in no way proves that jws are the only ones "preaching the good news".
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Perry
Thank You Virgochik.
Ephesians 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation:
500 years ago Luther & Calvin showed conclusively that a person cannot get saved by their church affiliation (or by works) as the Catholic Church taught. The Watchtower just recycled an old Catholic teaching and several generations of my family fell for it.Excellent post Sanchy! What messed up arguments the WT offers.
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Study article: "Go, and Make Disciples.." is a hot mess
by Sanchy inso i hooked into meeting via phone this week to listen in and was shocked at the absurdities mentioned in the study article (2016 may watchtower: "go,..and make disciples of people of all the nations").
the answer is obvious—only jehovah’s witnesses.
the answer the missionary priest gave in no way proves that jws are the only ones "preaching the good news".
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Perry
They harp on the good news (gospel) of the kingdom but ignore other more immediately relevant facets of the gospel:
Mark 1:1 The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God;
Acts 20:24 I have received of the Lord Jesus, to testify the gospel of the grace of God.
.Romans 1:1 Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God,
Romans 1:9 For God is my witness, whom I serve with my spirit in the gospel of his Son,
Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth
Romans 10:15 How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!
2 Corinthians 10:14 we are come as far as to you also in preaching the gospel of Christ:
2 Thessalonians 1:8 ... vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
Ephesians 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation:
The only reason they preach the gospel of the kingdom is because they interpret that to be about them. It is supposedly good news that the Watchtower corporation has arrived on the world scene to save everyone when in fact it was Jesus' arrival on the world scene that saved believers through his gospel of salvation, of himself, of peace and of undeserved kindness (grace). -
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New Here ... Just woke up
by Sevan inhey all, .
this is my first post.
i haven't been out in service or to a meeting in over a month.. i realize now that i've been having serious questions for years and many articles and talks have greatly disturbed me over the years.
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Perry
They said that they didn't want me to be their mother anymore if I wasn't a JW and that they didn't want to come to this house anymore as long as I wasn't a JW.
Jesus said a persons' enemies would be members of his own household. He wasn't joking.
I discontinued my fade and directly confronted my father and two older brothers who were elders on scriptural grounds surrounding the new covenant and salvation. I never heard from my brothers again. My father barely tolerated me while my mother was alive. They never even told me when my momma died.
From time to time, I reflect back over the past ten years since I came to belief in Christ Alone, and I sometimes compare the blessings I have received since then vs. what I had to leave behind.
After doing the math, I only regret that I had but one family of origin to be rejected by to receive "sonship" with God. Seek him first, & exclusively... he wont let you down.
Welcome to the forum!
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Is the Bible God's word? Help please.....
by Freeandclear inso real quick, i know this comes up now and then and i've looked over some of the posts from the past but here's the thing.. when i was a jw i drank all the cool aid, i was 100% and so i have all my own arguments (from the jw's) for why the bible is inspired.
i no longer believe this but i'd really like to read something that is pretty much 100% academic on this subject.
i want to read what scholars have to say about the authenticity of the bible and it's claim at being the inspired word of god.
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Perry
I think that Gary Habermas does a good job in distilling the things that scholars agree on, from the most liberal "near atheist" like Bart Erhman to modern conservative ones. He a master of connecting the dots using just the things that are agreed upon.
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Is the Bible God's word? Help please.....
by Freeandclear inso real quick, i know this comes up now and then and i've looked over some of the posts from the past but here's the thing.. when i was a jw i drank all the cool aid, i was 100% and so i have all my own arguments (from the jw's) for why the bible is inspired.
i no longer believe this but i'd really like to read something that is pretty much 100% academic on this subject.
i want to read what scholars have to say about the authenticity of the bible and it's claim at being the inspired word of god.
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Perry
JWS writes:
Only problem is everybody solves those things differently.
And you are reiterating my point. It is not my opinion that is important, but Gods. The bible usually answers or interprets itself in a pretty straight forward manor, like it does on the issue of Abraham's "only" son.
On the one hand they will tell you trust in God so that he can work his plan. But on the other you'll say things like "I'm praying for a job, or a spouse, or children" and it never happens. And they will tell you, well it won't happen just by praying. God will help you in your efforts. But you have to do something. Here, Abraham did something and you treat him as if he was being unfaithful.
Excellent points. I would just like to add that the bible reveals that we are born enemies of God. While still in our hostility toward him, Christ died for us, in our place, becoming sin for us, receiving our due punishment. I am unsure of the results of a person who places their primary trust in a organization, themselves, men, ideologies etc. & who then pray for certain things.
The bible is much more clear about the dynamic relationship God has with those he calls "sons". I was raised as a 4th generation Jehovah's Witness. I prayed for many, many things and experienced a tremendous amount of sheer wasted time because the primary object of my faith was the Watchtower and not God. Upon realizing this, it of course was quite a shock to me because I was pretty satisfied with my religious efforts to please God. After experiencing a life as a born again Christian for the past 10 year, I can compare the two. My opinion is that most any attempts to rely on God while venerating anyone or anything in his place is nearly a complete waste of time.
My advice is to make friends with God first, before seeking these other things. Then, make sure you understand what God has actually said as opposed to what someone has repeated what God has said, before embarking on a course of pursuit.
For instance, your characterization of Abraham in your quote above makes it look like Abraham & Sarah were simply avoiding laziness and were just trying to work in harmony with God and wasn't being unfaithful at all. However, when you look at exactly what God said, the willful disobedience becomes clear.
And God said unto Abraham, As for Sarai thy wife, thou shalt not call her name Sarai, but Sarah shall her name be. And I will bless her, and give thee a son also of her: yea, I will bless her, and she shall be a mother of nations; kings of people shall be of her.
God made it clear that Sarah would bear a son to Abraham. And through him would come kings and nations. And, that is just precisely what happened, in spite of their lapse in faith and efforts to make things happen by other means.
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Is the Bible God's word? Help please.....
by Freeandclear inso real quick, i know this comes up now and then and i've looked over some of the posts from the past but here's the thing.. when i was a jw i drank all the cool aid, i was 100% and so i have all my own arguments (from the jw's) for why the bible is inspired.
i no longer believe this but i'd really like to read something that is pretty much 100% academic on this subject.
i want to read what scholars have to say about the authenticity of the bible and it's claim at being the inspired word of god.
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Perry
Thanks for bringing that up JWS. Some of the most powerful messages in the bible are regarding sonship.
There are other instances where a different "sense" is sometimes applied to sonship:
One example is Gideon, & his "seventy sons," and that other son, Abimelech, who never seems to get counted with the rest.
Gideon had many sons:
Now Gideon had seventy sons who were his direct descendants, for he had many wives. His concubine who was in Shechem also bore him a son, and he named him Abimelech. -Judges 8:30-31
Note that while his concubine "bore him a son," the child was not counted amongst his "sons who were his direct descendants." In other words, the concubine bore a son for him, but the child was not his "son" in the same sense as these "direct descendants" were.
Later, after the death of Gideon, Abimelech goes to the people of Shechem (where his concubine mother was from) and tries to persuade them to follow him instead of the seventy. Listen to how he appeals to them:
And Abimelech the son of Jerubbaal went to Shechem to his mother’s relatives, and spoke to them and to the whole clan of the household of his mother’s father, saying, “Speak, now, in the hearing of all the leaders of Shechem, ‘Which is better for you, that seventy men, all the sons of Jerubbaal, rule over you, or that one man rule over you?’ Also, remember that I am your bone and your flesh.” -Judges 9:1-2
Note that even Abimelech himself does not consider himself part of "all the sons of Jerubbaal." What the example from Abimelech's life shows us is that a "son" in one sense can be excluded from the list of "sons" in another sense. In the case of Abimelech, it was because he was born of a concubine and not by one of Gideon's wives.
Was Ishmael a different kind of "son" than Isaac? It turns out he was, in a number of ways:
Isaac was the "child of promise", Ishmael was the child of disobedience or unbelief. Ishmael was the result of Abraham and mainly Sarah's attempt to force the promises of God to come to pass through their own conniving and willfulness.
Ishmael (like Abimelech,) was born of a concubine, and not by his father's own wife
As a result, it was in Isaac that Abraham's descendants were to be named. (Gen. 21:12)
So, was Ishmael Abraham's son? Yes! In one sense; according to the flesh.
Was Isaac Abraham's "only son"? Yes! In another sense; according to the promise.
I believe that this drama illustrates two powerful truths to the way life works in the universe that God has created:
1. When a person, through their own willfulness tries to force the good things that God has promised to come to pass through their own designs and willfulness, then God allows this, but he also allows that person to be responsible for the results.
Conversely, when a person allows God to work out his promises of good things in a believer's life, then He (God) becomes responsible for the results.
We see a powerful testimony to this truth of what happens when believers take matters into their own hands with the Arab / Israeli conflict in the Middle East today - the descendants of the child of obedience (promise/faith through Issac) and the child of disobedience - (willfulness though Ishmael)
2. Sonship with God does not come by way of our works, church affiliation, intelligence, etc., but only by faith.
Abraham's "only son" came by his only wife, according to God's only promise, and thus, it was only in Isaac that Abraham's descendants would be named.
Paul brings this theme to a conclusion in Galatians 3:
Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham. 8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed. 9 So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham. 10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them. 11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith. 12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them. 13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:
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Is the Bible God's word? Help please.....
by Freeandclear inso real quick, i know this comes up now and then and i've looked over some of the posts from the past but here's the thing.. when i was a jw i drank all the cool aid, i was 100% and so i have all my own arguments (from the jw's) for why the bible is inspired.
i no longer believe this but i'd really like to read something that is pretty much 100% academic on this subject.
i want to read what scholars have to say about the authenticity of the bible and it's claim at being the inspired word of god.
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Perry
Where did Abraham get his camel? Probably from the same place this man did.
Third Millennium BC Egyptian petroglyph of a man leading a dromedary camel.
Credit: Ripinsky 1985.
The entire carving was dated to the 6th Dynasty of Egypt, ca. 2345-2181 BC, based on the inscription, the style, and the patina. This places the use of domesticated camels in Egypt at least as early as ca. 2200 BC.
Genesis is full of Myth and Legend.
In my research, I have found that humans are full of confirmation bias, selective reasoning, and shameless self promotion, far more than Genesis is full of myth and legend.
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Is the Bible God's word? Help please.....
by Freeandclear inso real quick, i know this comes up now and then and i've looked over some of the posts from the past but here's the thing.. when i was a jw i drank all the cool aid, i was 100% and so i have all my own arguments (from the jw's) for why the bible is inspired.
i no longer believe this but i'd really like to read something that is pretty much 100% academic on this subject.
i want to read what scholars have to say about the authenticity of the bible and it's claim at being the inspired word of god.
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Perry
I believe the Bible is inspired by God. I have done a lot of research.
Here are a couple of websites you might want to use for researching the claims of skeptics.
http://christianthinktank.com/
It is time consuming to read up on specific subjects, but that is really the only way to prove things to yourself. It is worth it for the clarity of mind.
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It won’t be much longer now.
by Tameria2001 ina couple weeks back my husband got a phone call from his brother, whom he hasn’t spoken to in nearly 17 years.
well i take that back, he did speak to him at the family reunion, asking him to leave.
my husband basically told him to f off, he would leave when he’s darn good and ready, but he didn’t use the word darn.
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Perry
I'm sorry the lack of love caused you so much pain. Take the high road, whatever that may be. Vindictiveness, however disguised always seems to consume.
