Posts by Perry

27

A chapter on The Trinity

by Doug Mason in

as i work my way through the history of judaeo-christian salvation, i have drafted a chapter on the trinity and early christology.

as before, i am seeking corrections, advice, and suggestions.. the chapter is available at: http://www.jwstudies.com/formative_christianity_s_christological_combats.pdf.

while preparing this chapter, i realised that i am not looking at the "evolution" of soteriology.

Perry

John 12 in New World Translation:

Although he had performed so many signs before them, they were not putting faith in him, so that the word of Isaiah the prophet might be fulfilled, ... The reason why they were not able to believe is that again Isaiah said: “He has blinded their eyes and has made their hearts hard, so that they would not see with their eyes and understand with their hearts and turn around and I heal them.”Isaiah said these things because he saw his glory, and he spoke about him.

All the same, many even of the rulers actually put faith in him, but they would not acknowledge him because of the Pharisees, so that they would not be expelled from the synagogue;for they loved the glory of men even more than the glory of God. - NWT

Isaiah saw God in heaven in Isaiah Ch. 6. The Apostle John says Isaiah saw Jesus. He equates the disbelieving of God in Isaiah, to the unbelieving Jews in John 12.

Also:

Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood. Acts: 20: 28 (KJV)

The NWT was forced to add "Son" to change the meaning of this scripture:

"Pay attention to yourselves and to all the flock, among which the holy spirit has appointed you overseers, to shepherd to congregation of God, which he purchased with the blood of his own [Son]." Acts 20;24 (NWT 1984 edition)

The brackets in the NWT indicate words that are not in the original text.The 2013 NWT edition eliminates the parenthesis, but leaves "Son" anyway.

Conclusion: The earliest Christians understood that Jehovah (God) took on human flesh in Jesus, the son of Mary, because they plainly wrote about it.

Reading Hebrews 1 & Revelation 1 in most anything but a NWT, also makes this crystal clear.

15

What the heck is CLAM?

by undercover in

jw
friends

i guess it's a good thing that i've been 'out' of this crazy religion so long that i'm not hip to newer buzzwords.... ...like, clam i'm guessing it's not a fun time at the beach, looking for shells or whatnot.. so, what is clam?.

Perry

C L A M:

Christian Life and Ministry?

I don't thing so. Christianity is characterized by a changed life, dominated by peace from the Prince of Peace and Joy, regardless of circumstance.

I have a new title:

C L A M:

Claiming Lies And Misery

(for your very own)

Rutherford Lied. They died.

31

22,000 years of arctic ice cores melt, and wash the YHWH/JESUS concept down the sewer

by fulltimestudent in

the full story, as told in the uk guardian can be found at: https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/apr/16/arctic-ice-cores-melt-university-alberta-canada.

and briefly it tells of an equipment failure at a storage facility for ice cores that had been extracted from the polar ice cap in various locations.. but note, that the layers of ice evident in the cores covered a period of 22,000 years.

and from the christian/jw perspective, that's impossible, for the bible story of the flood (verified by jesus and sundry other biblical writers) maintains that 4000+ years ago, the ice caps would have melted during the period when the earth was covered by the divinely caused deluge.

Perry

jwleaks,

Surely you know that even a broken clock is right twice a day.

WhatShall says:

counting layers is not how age is calculated

Then you say;

Your own link above makes it clear what ANNUAL layers are

You seem confused. So which is it? Are there yearly layers or not?

US National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration is clear in the caption above. Supposedly reputable sources clearly reference annual layers. And yet when it is demonstrated that many layers per year form, then you change your argument to many rings per year, but only one layer.

Yet, AntarticGlacier.org says:

Fortunately, ice cores preserve annual layers, making it simple to date the ice. Seasonal differences in the snow properties create layers – just like rings in trees.

So again, which is it in this game of word-smithing?

And then, at some point the layers and rings virtually disappear the further down you get?

Regardless, it is obvious that rings and layers are irrelevant when it comes to dating ice cores. They are relative terms that can be made to fit most any desired outcome. Yet, when supposedly "reputable" sources (defined as ones that say they are old) continue to reference ANNUAL rings AND layers, even though one or both is demonstrably false, it calls into serious question other dating methods, and whether or not those additional methods are just as confusing and non-nonsensical.

The axiom idea: "We date the ice layers by the carbon 14 and we calibrate the carbon 14 by the ice layers" is similar to other circular reasoning found in the religion of scientism:

31

22,000 years of arctic ice cores melt, and wash the YHWH/JESUS concept down the sewer

by fulltimestudent in

the full story, as told in the uk guardian can be found at: https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/apr/16/arctic-ice-cores-melt-university-alberta-canada.

and briefly it tells of an equipment failure at a storage facility for ice cores that had been extracted from the polar ice cap in various locations.. but note, that the layers of ice evident in the cores covered a period of 22,000 years.

and from the christian/jw perspective, that's impossible, for the bible story of the flood (verified by jesus and sundry other biblical writers) maintains that 4000+ years ago, the ice caps would have melted during the period when the earth was covered by the divinely caused deluge.

Perry

counting layers is not how age is calculated

I think that assumption is well represented in literature.

AntarticGlaciers.org says:

Layers In The Ice

If we want to reconstruct past air temperatures, one of the most critical parameters is the age of the ice being analysed. Fortunately, ice cores preserve annual layers, making it simple to date the ice. Seasonal differences in the snow properties create layers – just like rings in trees. Unfortunately, annual layers become harder to see deeper in the ice core. Other ways of dating ice cores include geochemisty, layers of ash (tephra), electrical conductivity, and using numerical flow models to understand age-depth relationships.

This 19 cm long of GISP2 ice core from 1855 m depth shows annual layers in the ice. This section contains 11 annual layers with summer layers (arrowed) sandwiched between darker winter layers. From the US National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, Wikimedia Commons.

31

22,000 years of arctic ice cores melt, and wash the YHWH/JESUS concept down the sewer

by fulltimestudent in

the full story, as told in the uk guardian can be found at: https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/apr/16/arctic-ice-cores-melt-university-alberta-canada.

and briefly it tells of an equipment failure at a storage facility for ice cores that had been extracted from the polar ice cap in various locations.. but note, that the layers of ice evident in the cores covered a period of 22,000 years.

and from the christian/jw perspective, that's impossible, for the bible story of the flood (verified by jesus and sundry other biblical writers) maintains that 4000+ years ago, the ice caps would have melted during the period when the earth was covered by the divinely caused deluge.

Perry

Bob Cardin, of Middleboro, Kentucky, was one of the men who dug the planes out. When asked, “Bob, when you dug that airplane out, how many layers of ice were there above the airplane?”, He said, “Oh, there were many hundreds of layers of ice above the airplane.”

The facts are that in only 48 years, these planes were already under 260 feet of ice, and under "many hundreds" of ice layers.

I need more proof that each ice layer in a core sample takes an entire year to form, especially in light of these images and facts surrounding the lost Squadron.

31

22,000 years of arctic ice cores melt, and wash the YHWH/JESUS concept down the sewer

by fulltimestudent in

the full story, as told in the uk guardian can be found at: https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/apr/16/arctic-ice-cores-melt-university-alberta-canada.

and briefly it tells of an equipment failure at a storage facility for ice cores that had been extracted from the polar ice cap in various locations.. but note, that the layers of ice evident in the cores covered a period of 22,000 years.

and from the christian/jw perspective, that's impossible, for the bible story of the flood (verified by jesus and sundry other biblical writers) maintains that 4000+ years ago, the ice caps would have melted during the period when the earth was covered by the divinely caused deluge.

Perry

The Greenland Society of Atlanta has recently attempted to excavate a 10-foot diameter shaft in the Greenland ice pack to remove two B-17 Flying Fortresses and six P-38 Lightning fighters trapped under an estimated 250 feet of ice for almost 50 years (Bloomberg, 1989). Aside from the fascination with salvaging several vintage aircraft for parts and movie rights, the fact that these aircraft were buried so deeply in such a short time focuses attention on the time scales used to estimate the chronologies of ice.

the average annual thickness of ice at Camp Century located near the northern tip of Greenland is believed to vary from about fourteen inches near the surface to less than two inches near the bottom (Hammer, et al., 1978). If, for simplicity, we assume the average annual thickness to be the mean between the annual thickness at the top and at the bottom (about eight inches), this still gives an age of less than 6000 years for the 4000-foot-thick ice sheet to form under uniformitarian conditions.

Article

Would like to see that Snowbird

31

22,000 years of arctic ice cores melt, and wash the YHWH/JESUS concept down the sewer

by fulltimestudent in

the full story, as told in the uk guardian can be found at: https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/apr/16/arctic-ice-cores-melt-university-alberta-canada.

and briefly it tells of an equipment failure at a storage facility for ice cores that had been extracted from the polar ice cap in various locations.. but note, that the layers of ice evident in the cores covered a period of 22,000 years.

and from the christian/jw perspective, that's impossible, for the bible story of the flood (verified by jesus and sundry other biblical writers) maintains that 4000+ years ago, the ice caps would have melted during the period when the earth was covered by the divinely caused deluge.

Perry

What information is that Snowbird?

26

Were the apostles of the 'Anointed class' when they partook?

by why144000 in

according to john 20:22 the apostles did not receive the holy spirit until after jesus was resurrected.

wouldn't this make them part of 'the other sheep' when they partook of the bread and wine?.

Perry

The "other sheep" were simply gentile believers. During the Church Age, there is only one group being gathered - the Bride of Christ.

16

Why does Jehovah choose certain people to rule with him in heaven?

by iWant2Learn in

in other words, what good works have the 144000 done to be secured a place in heaven?

i am told they have already been chosen.

does that mean that jehovah also knows our future?

Perry

The general Christian view is:

God chooses people to rule with him in Heaven who believe him.... between Calvary and the Great Tribulation time period.

Christ gathers all the gentiles (and some converted Jews) who believe during the church age (times of the gentiles). Those still alive at Christs return "in the clouds" are evacuated to heaven (the 1st resurrection) just prior to the Great Tribulation.

Then Jehovah reserves for himself 144K Israelites as a co-ruling class.... probably on earth (not as clear on this point).

One is the Bride of Christ. The other is like a wife to Jehovah. (Remember that the New Covenant did not void the Old Covenant. The New Covenant is described as a better covenant.)

Both groups rule with God during the Millennium over these groups:

1. Other believing Jews found at the end of the GT

2. Believing Gentiles found at the end of the GT who did not join the Antichrist to kill the Jews (Christs Brothers)

These people enter the kingdom millennium on earth but are not immortal, can die, and can still pass on the sin nature to their children.

At the end of the Millennium the age old question of nature vs. nature will have been answered, since many will still choose the sin nature over God, in spite of perfect government and peace.

I am a Christian believer. And, I don't feel qualified to rule with Christ. But my feelings are not what guides my decision making. God's word does.

People who get themselves in agreement with God now regarding abandoning the sin nature, apparently are given high priority and greater responsibility with God, whether they feel like they deserve it or not.

38

If we are further away from perfection, why are we more moral?

by stuckinarut2 in

as we know, witnesses teach that adam and eve were perfect and then committed the first act of sin and rebellion.. they in turn were cursed,and we all declined as their offspring.

humans supposedly lived shorter and shorter lives, and became more imperfect and sinful.. the further away in time humans go then, they should be getting worse.

so why is it then that as a society, humans have actually improved in so many ways?.

Perry

Judeo / Christian ethics has had an enormous impact on the world.