Posts by Perry

17

"A little leaven ferments the whole batch of dough". A way to make witnesses think!?

by stuckinarut2 in

how can we briefly make a calm, dignified point to witnesses we care about such as family or friends?

how can we make them think?.

here are a couple of well known scriptures: (from the revised new world translation.

Perry

They just don't have the mental capacity to grasp all you are saying .

This is why when witnessing to people, especially JW's a person MUST speak to the conscience. The con + science , literally means "with knowledge". It knows.

Although the intellect may pretend laziness, the conscience does not, except in rare cases of sociopathy.

Jesus spoke to the Jews differently than he commanded the apostles to speak to the gentiles. Why? Because the gentiles were far less educated in the laws and wisdom of God. To the Jews, the message was the Kingdom. To the gentiles the message was JUDGMENT.

Acts 10: 39

we are witnesses of all things which he did both in the land of the Jews, and in Jerusalem; whom they slew and hanged on a tree:
Him God raised up the third day, and shewed him openly;
Not to all the people, but unto witnesses chosen before God, even to us, who did eat and drink with him after he rose from the dead.
And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead.
To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.

This is the message to the gentiles that brought down the Roman Empire without drawing a sword. If we want to be successful in bringing down the WT, we must follow the Master's instructions. The message to JW's (as for the rest of us) is one of Judgment. And, it is coming AFTER we die. (Hebrews 9:27)

The Watchtower has a gaping hole in its theology so big you can drive London city bus through it.

JW'S ARE GUILTY BEFORE THE LORD AND HAVE NO WAY TO GET THEIR SINS FORGIVEN.

17

"A little leaven ferments the whole batch of dough". A way to make witnesses think!?

by stuckinarut2 in

how can we briefly make a calm, dignified point to witnesses we care about such as family or friends?

how can we make them think?.

here are a couple of well known scriptures: (from the revised new world translation.

Perry

Stuckinarut is 'right on' in my opinion. JW's must be defeated on their own ground.

191

Evolution is a Fact - Index of Parts 1 - 40

by cofty in

#1 protein functional redundancy comparing the sequences of amino acids in ubiquitous proteins confirms the relationship between all living things..

#2 dna functional redundancy comparison of the dna that codes for the amino acids of ubiquitous proteins predicts the tree of life with an astonishing degree of accuracy..

#3 ervs endogenous retroviruses that infected our ancestors are found in the same place of the genome of our closest primate cousins..

Perry

Sorry guys, my challenges & questions are directed toward Cofty, the author of this thread.

Still waiting Cofty.

Ancient Navaho Proverb: You can't wake someone pretending to be asleep.

17

"A little leaven ferments the whole batch of dough". A way to make witnesses think!?

by stuckinarut2 in

how can we briefly make a calm, dignified point to witnesses we care about such as family or friends?

how can we make them think?.

here are a couple of well known scriptures: (from the revised new world translation.

Perry

I think most are capable of understanding it. I use it every chance I get.

Once, I popped into a KH parking lot about the time I knew some would be returning from Field Service on a Saturday morning, around 11:30 or so.

Using only this information, after about 5 to 8 minutes, I was able to get an elder to make the following statement:

"If what you are telling me is true, then I'm in the wrong place".

I have had many JW's (and family members) appear dumbfounded when simply asked to show even one scripture in the NT that shows how a person can get their sins forgiven while outside of the New Covenant.

The key is not to preach to the JW, but to ask them to instruct you about this supposed salvation outside of the New Covenant. Of course it doesn't exist.

This is the entire purpose of the Watchtower, to get people to turn down the FREE GIFT of pardon. If someone is bound and determined to turn it down, then so be it. But most JW's are utterly unaware of what they are choosing. If we love them, we will help them to see what their choice actually involves.

17

"A little leaven ferments the whole batch of dough". A way to make witnesses think!?

by stuckinarut2 in

how can we briefly make a calm, dignified point to witnesses we care about such as family or friends?

how can we make them think?.

here are a couple of well known scriptures: (from the revised new world translation.

Perry

Good Points!

I would like to offer my advice on HOW TO WITNESS TO FAMILY MEMBERS.

I have tested this many times with VERY positive results.

1. First, you must make the loved one admit that they are NOT PART of the New Covenant. Note: This may require reminding them that they do not partake of the emblems at the Memorial service.

2. Then, you must establish what the New Covenant is for. Matt. 26: 27 & 28 makes CLEAR that the New Covenant is FOR THE FORGIVENESS OF SINS (not only govt. positions like the WT says).

3. Then go over to Hebrews 9:27 where it reads that we will all be judged AFTER we die.

4. Then, challenge your family member to find EVEN ONE New Testament scripture that shows how a person can get their sins forgiven while OUTSIDE of the New Covenant.

5. Tell them that when they find that scripture, you'd be happy to go with them to the Kingdom Hall. You can remind them of this condition again & again over time.

6. Be prepared to remind them that regardless of the time period a believer finds himself in, (pre trib, during, or post tribulation) , after the sacrifice at Calvary ALL get their sins forgiven the EXACT SAME WAY - through the blood covenant of Christ.

This is clear at Rev. 7: 14 which says of the great crowd: "they have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb". NOTE: Destination, ie. heaven or earth has nothing whatsoever to do with Justification (getting your sins forgiven).

Is. 64: 6 reminds us that not only are our sins unacceptable, but even our so-called righteous acts are unclean before God if not covered by the blood. - "all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags". - KJV

7. Let your family member know that you are fearful of being condemned by God and so you are seeking protection through the blood of the lamb, similar to what the Israelites did on the first Passover in Egypt when they applied the blood of a lamb to the post and header of their doors to avoid being condemned.

Jesus once said that even if a person just looked at another with lust, they were guilty of fornication. Ask them if they ever did something like that. Ask them if they are concerned about their own judgment in light of Jesus' words.

Tell them again and again until they get it that the reason we all need a PERSONAL SAVIOR is because Hebrews 9: 27 states clearly that their will be a PERSONAL JUDGMENT.

Keep repeating your challenge over time about wanting to know how to get your sins forgiven while outside of the New Covenant. Remind them that they are the one that cannot answer this question, not you. Remind them that personal judgment is coming for all of us.

Confirming the fact that the rank and file JW does not have their sins forgiven, incredibly the WT printed this in 1938 WT pg. 104, 105: "

the "other sheep" are in a different condition .... not even justified".

Tell them that you want to be justified, made right with God.

Remind them that even the WT acknowledges that Jesus is the Mediator for ONLY those who are part of the New Covenant. He is not a Mediator for those outside of this arrangement - the rank and file JW. 4/1/79 WT p.31

I hope this helps someone!

191

Evolution is a Fact - Index of Parts 1 - 40

by cofty in

#1 protein functional redundancy comparing the sequences of amino acids in ubiquitous proteins confirms the relationship between all living things..

#2 dna functional redundancy comparison of the dna that codes for the amino acids of ubiquitous proteins predicts the tree of life with an astonishing degree of accuracy..

#3 ervs endogenous retroviruses that infected our ancestors are found in the same place of the genome of our closest primate cousins..

Perry

And instead of addressing any of this very real science that Crofty and everyone else has brought to the table Perry instead just tries to hand wave it away by falsely equating it to Watchtower BS.

Coded Logic,

I am directly addressing the "science" of evolution Cofty writes about. I have repeatedly asked Cofty to apply the principles he writes about to a bug. I am not asking him to start with humans who can send people to the moon in rocket ships. ....just a caterpillar. I find it hard to imagine how I can be more confrontational than I already am, but I will think about your suggestion.

I don't understand why Perry is being so rude.

When Cofty calls Nimble Duck "Dumble F*ck", you don't say a word about that being rude do you?

Cofty is the one claiming that there is no question that naturalism can't answer. Well??

It is not being rude to test claims like that.

191

Evolution is a Fact - Index of Parts 1 - 40

by cofty in

#1 protein functional redundancy comparing the sequences of amino acids in ubiquitous proteins confirms the relationship between all living things..

#2 dna functional redundancy comparison of the dna that codes for the amino acids of ubiquitous proteins predicts the tree of life with an astonishing degree of accuracy..

#3 ervs endogenous retroviruses that infected our ancestors are found in the same place of the genome of our closest primate cousins..

Perry

No I personally can't but I can find plenty resources that contain the answers.

Got to go check with the "Elders" eh?

Well, you have my permission to cut and paste the BEST ANSWER you can find. We are all depending on you: Here's the question again:

Challenge Question: Can you explain (in your own words) how caterpillars and butterflies came to be, using only evolution principles such as random mutations, small incremental changes, and natural selection?

In other words, which evolutionary process would prompt an organism to digest itself into goo? Then, which incremental processes and environmental pressures would then prompt the goo to develop new organs and a new body... not to mention the added capability of flight in a beautiful display of colors and designs?

Get me a personal message from your imaginary professor friend inviting me to meet with him.

Moving the goal posts eh? No way. He has an open invitation to "anyone". That includes you. Here is a quote from him:

I posted on my Web site that I don’t understand. And I said, “I will buy lunch for anyone that will sit with me and explain to me evolution, and I won’t argue with you until I don’t understand something – I will ask you to clarify. But you can’t wave by and say, “This enzyme does that.” You’ve got to get down in the details of where molecules are built, for me. Nobody has come forward. - Professor James Tour

You agree first. Then, I will try to set it up. That's the deal. If Simon will reinstate my ability to start posts, I will keep everyone posted on the developments with a thread dedicated for that purpose.

Dr. Tour, like the rest of us would like molecules-to-man evolution explained.

191

Evolution is a Fact - Index of Parts 1 - 40

by cofty in

#1 protein functional redundancy comparing the sequences of amino acids in ubiquitous proteins confirms the relationship between all living things..

#2 dna functional redundancy comparison of the dna that codes for the amino acids of ubiquitous proteins predicts the tree of life with an astonishing degree of accuracy..

#3 ervs endogenous retroviruses that infected our ancestors are found in the same place of the genome of our closest primate cousins..

Perry

Sorry for the double post.

Coded Logic says:

Why is Perry such a jerk? Instead of addressing any of the issues raised by Crofty Perry instead tries to go after Crofty's level of education.

He started the thread silly, not me. Why hasn't he addressed any of the issues that I have raised? Why even start a thread if you are not going to apply the ideas the thread is about? In other words, why not test the ideas? Unless he is afraid to.

Cofty has never in all the years I've talked to him offered even one application of the evolutionary principles that he preaches to any of the thought tests that I've presented to him.

As I have pointed out many times, when asked to actually provide an explanation of observable phenomena using an evolutionary & naturalistic paradigm, Cofty repeatedly ignores the invitation and often retreats into one of two defensive positions.

A. Wait on Jehovah - Got to go check with the Elders (scientists) they will tell me what to say one day.

B. I am smart enough but you are not educated enough to understand the answer.

Since Cofty often attacks the intellect and education of those that question him, it most certainly is right and proper to question Cofty's level of scientific education, which of course everyone knows is ZERO .

I have seen what uneducated "experts" can do; they can be very dangerous people, captives of their own pride and certitude. One such uneducated expert wiped out 6 generations of my family before he was exposed as being clueless and a copier of other "experts" selectively chosen.

Cofty is Fred Franz warmed over.

So he [Professor Tours] remains openminded.
Are you Perry?

Of course. All of my responses to this thread are consistent, I have not wavered in my desire to be educated.

All I ask if for Cofty to actually apply the principles he so copiously writes about to a bug. That should be easy enough. I'm not asking him to start with a human .... just a lowly bug - a caterpillar.

And, if he honestly thinks that I'm not smart enough to understand, then I have offered him an expenses paid vacation to Houston to explain it to a Phd. scientists who really is educated enough to understand Cofty's (heretofore non-existent) explanations, since he makes molecules for a living. Does Cofty think that the professor is not educated enough to understand him as well? Or, is he terrified that he will himself appear as an uneducated fool when attempting to educate someone who makes molecules for a living?

His refusals are eye-opening. No matter how you slice it, it appears that there is not ANY scenario imaginable where Cofty would be enticed to actually explain how his concepts account for observable data.

Cofty has been doing this for years. I pop in periodically just to remind Cofty that although he has left the Watchtower, the Watchtower thinking hasn't left him.

191

Evolution is a Fact - Index of Parts 1 - 40

by cofty in

#1 protein functional redundancy comparing the sequences of amino acids in ubiquitous proteins confirms the relationship between all living things..

#2 dna functional redundancy comparison of the dna that codes for the amino acids of ubiquitous proteins predicts the tree of life with an astonishing degree of accuracy..

#3 ervs endogenous retroviruses that infected our ancestors are found in the same place of the genome of our closest primate cousins..

Perry

No I personally can't but I can find plenty resources that contain the answers.

Got to go check with the "Elders" eh?

Well, you have my permission to cut and paste the BEST ANSWER you can find. We are all depending on you: Here's the question again:

Challenge Question: Can you explain (in your own words) how caterpillars and butterflies came to be, using only evolution principles such as random mutations, small incremental changes, and natural selection?

In other words, which evolutionary process would prompt an organism to digest itself into goo? Then, which incremental processes and environmental pressures would then prompt the goo to develop new organs and a new body... not to mention the added capability of flight in a beautiful display of colors and designs?

Get me a personal message from your imaginary professor friend inviting me to meet with him.

Moving the goal posts eh? No way. He has an open invitation to "anyone". That includes you. Here is a quote from him:

I posted on my Web site that I don’t understand. And I said, “I will buy lunch for anyone that will sit with me and explain to me evolution, and I won’t argue with you until I don’t understand something – I will ask you to clarify. But you can’t wave by and say, “This enzyme does that.” You’ve got to get down in the details of where molecules are built, for me. Nobody has come forward. - Professor James Tour

You agree first. Then, I will try to set it up. That's the deal. If Simon will reinstate my ability to start posts, I will keep everyone posted on the developments with a thread dedicated for that purpose.

Dr. Tour, like the rest of us would like molecules-to-man evolution explained.

191

Evolution is a Fact - Index of Parts 1 - 40

by cofty in

#1 protein functional redundancy comparing the sequences of amino acids in ubiquitous proteins confirms the relationship between all living things..

#2 dna functional redundancy comparison of the dna that codes for the amino acids of ubiquitous proteins predicts the tree of life with an astonishing degree of accuracy..

#3 ervs endogenous retroviruses that infected our ancestors are found in the same place of the genome of our closest primate cousins..

Perry

No I personally can't but I can find plenty resources that contain the answers.

Got to go check with the "Elders" eh?

Well, you have my permission to cut and paste the BEST ANSWER you can find. We are all depending on you: Here's the question again:

Challenge Question: Can you explain (in your own words) how caterpillars and butterflies came to be, using only evolution principles such as random mutations, small incremental changes, and natural selection?

In other words, which evolutionary process would prompt an organism to digest itself into goo? Then, which incremental processes and environmental pressures would then prompt the goo to develop new organs and a new body... not to mention the added capability of flight in a beautiful display of colors and designs?

Get me a personal message from your imaginary professor friend inviting me to meet with him.

Moving the goal posts eh? No way. He has an open invitation to "anyone". That includes you. Here is a quote from him:

I posted on my Web site that I don’t understand. And I said, “I will buy lunch for anyone that will sit with me and explain to me evolution, and I won’t argue with you until I don’t understand something – I will ask you to clarify. But you can’t wave by and say, “This enzyme does that.” You’ve got to get down in the details of where molecules are built, for me. Nobody has come forward. - Professor James Tour

You agree first. Then, I will try to set it up. That's the deal. If Simon will reinstate my ability to start posts, I will keep everyone posted on the developments with a thread dedicated for that purpose.

Dr. Tour, like the rest of us would like molecules-to-man evolution explained.