jw's often state that their practice of disfellowshipping is used to keep the congregation clean and free of "worldly" influences and the like, however that is just pure b.s.
in actual practice, all they actually care about is your status according to the watchtower society.
case in point is ray's situation.. ray disassociated himself about 20 years ago because elders and other jw's were constantly spreading false rumors after he quit attending meetings.
His dad gave him instructions on how he is to behave so he will not have to cut him off.
The key is secrecy. As long as people sorta behave themselves and don't talk ill of Mother Church, then even if you leave you still will probably get thrown an emotional bone or two now and then by relatives.
The secrecy (facade) is what they want to protect the most.
after reading this newly leaked letter, something profoundly "hit" me.
myself, being born a "witness", and most of us here, who have learned their teachings for years, know of the "importance" the gb/wts always placed on the watchtower and awake magazines, themselves.. from the magazines inception, from back in probably the 1920's, or somewhere that far back, the wts claimed that the preaching work, and specifically the distribution of these magazines, were a sign of the times, and a fulfilment of bible prophecy in these last days.
they would compare the watchtower magazine to a "stinging scorpion", claiming those magazines fulfilled that verse in revelation.
I have long seen similarities between the Armstrong organization and the Watchtower.
At some point, the GB are going to have to jettisone the dating of second coming at 1914. When that happens, the general membership will be allowed to have a relationship with Christ through the New Covenant like they did in the beginning.
Who knows?
a lot of people, ex-jws, believers and unbelievers alike, think that jw's are just a somewhat kooky brand of christianity.
is it possible to "try and follow jesus" and not be christian?
what exactly makes someone a christian?
Crazy Guy,
When I became a Christian I conducted business strictly with Jesus and was saved, since "there is no other name under heaven by which we are saved". But, Christians have always believed Jesus, the man, is irrevocably fused with the personage of the Son which has the same essence as Jehovah.
As my wife and I started going to services, especially more traditional services I was surprised how many references to Jehovah were made in the Hymnals. It is not uncommon to find songs that go back three to five hundred years affirming that the father and son are one essence.
Here's just one example.
a careful examination of the historical pagan religious context existing at the time of the genesis of christianity leads any reasonable person to conclude that jesus is just another one of several similar myths.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kn7teoa9ark.
a lot of people, ex-jws, believers and unbelievers alike, think that jw's are just a somewhat kooky brand of christianity.
is it possible to "try and follow jesus" and not be christian?
what exactly makes someone a christian?
Garyneal,
I would be comfortable in any number of bible believing churches. When we moved, we found a similar church, though not officially Baptist. Doctrine is identical. They have elders, which is a Presbyterian influence. Doesn't really matter, nice solid folks there.
I can’t say I am really much of a biblical scholar but man you would think if that was god’s plan for humanity, you would think the bible would be pretty consistent in this teaching.
Clambake,
The New Testament is perfectly consistent in its teaching that a person has to be a member of the new covenant in order to have forgiveness of sins. NOT ONE scripture shows how a person can get their sins forgiven while outside of the New Covenant.
BTW, as a side note, the English words: testament and covenant are from the same Greek word. They both just mean "contract". The bible has been divided by the old contract and the new contract.
The entire new testament describes how things should be when / after entering into the "new contract" with God.
a careful examination of the historical pagan religious context existing at the time of the genesis of christianity leads any reasonable person to conclude that jesus is just another one of several similar myths.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kn7teoa9ark.
Half-Bananna,
I think the evidence is overwhelming in favor of genuine history, for many, many reasons. This connection you propose is popular in some dark corners of the internet, but not among reputable scholars.
Despite having popular appeal on the Internet, the idea that the resurrection story of Jesus was borrowed from pagan mythology has been abandoned by the vast majority of critical scholars today.1 In fact, one noted resurrection expert named Gary Habermas said that he could count on one hand of the 2,000 or so publications that he surveyed from French, German, and English written during 1975 to the present of how many scholars attribute the story of the resurrection of Jesus as being borrowed from pagan mythology.2
Article
i know many will be the day you left the wt organization.
i'm sure we have a lot.
of good memories, but the ones that sticks out in your mind.. 1) the birth of my children.. 2) the day i stepped foot on the plane that flew me home from viet nam.. 3)and the day in high school i made the winning point against our cross town rival.
James,
I was born in 1963. No worries, were still young!
Hard to compete with your # 3 !
Seriously, birth of children are at the top for me ...with 1 or 2 others.
for jw's the issue has never been who the faithful and wise servant (f&ds) was.
that is just misdirection and sleight of hand.
it is plain from the context that this was obviously a rhetorical question meant for self introspection.
Sorry Perry but that movie is far more memorable than the 4 Gospels combined.
Oh, I don't really think so. The New Testament is the world's best selling book by far. And this rebuttal to the copy cat accusation is pretty well dispelled here.
a careful examination of the historical pagan religious context existing at the time of the genesis of christianity leads any reasonable person to conclude that jesus is just another one of several similar myths.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kn7teoa9ark.
The very fact that you and millions of Christians need to make the choice over which version to accept should really demonstrate the silliness of trying to argue for the infallibility of the bible. Which bible?
Mephis,
In the very beginning Satan told a lie. He misquoted God. To think that he would not continue to launch attacks on the word of God is ridiculous. That is his gig, lying and deception. Sinaiticus & Vaticanus look like chicken scratch. Everyone agrees that they were altered over and over for centuries. When you throw them out (and the 10% that are based upon them) you are left with the remaining 90% which are in virtual total agreement.
That settled the issue for me. If you want to believe that we can't know the truth, go ahead. That is certainly your choice to make. I have no problem with that.
However, just by studying the early church fathers and their writings (and they wrote A LOT) in just the first 3 centuries, it is easy to determine exactly what sound doctrine is, where and when heretical doctrine came in; and who was the culprit.
The early church fathers usually wrote a letter and quoted much scripture to warn congregations about the error. To illustrate just how much the early church fathers wrote, ALL of the New Testament can be reconstructed from their writings.
Here's an excellent book on this topic.
If you took all their quotes, WHICH PREDATE SINAITICUS AND VATICANUS, what you would end up with is the Majority Text - Basically the readings in the King James Bible.
Regarding the contradictions you claim in the New Testament, I have researched most claims and found them to be baseless. You got one you would like to discus? Open a thread, I'm game.
BTW, the TRUTH is a person
in a perfect world, one would hope that no woman would need to consider an abortion.
there is unfortunately, no perfect world and there does not seem there will ever be a perfect world.
so consider .... 1. a child rape case in paraguay.. ... but the plot unfolding in paraguay is so dark and twisted that it is currently tearing the south american country apart.it began on april 21 when a mother brought her 10-year-old daughter to a public hospital.
SSC,
The United States is one of the only countries in the world that allows partial birth abortion. It is an abomination.
It seems to me that allowing abortion in cases of 1.) rape, 2.) incest, 3.) danger to mother and 4.) banning it altogether after the 1st Trimester, would be the bare minimum that everyone of all stripes could agree upon.
The abortion laws in the united states are utterly detestable.
On another note, I was invited to a fund raiser for a community pregnancy center that offers free services. Seems like every business owner in town was there to eat and write a check. $1000.00 a plate was asked.
Gianna was the guest speaker at the event. Let me just tell you that she needed help up to the podium. But, once she got there, she delivered one of the most amazing speeches I'd ever heard. During that speech she said something that made me stop all my whining and sniffling about the loss of my JW family when I accepted Christ.
She said that as an adult she tried to establish a relationship with her biological mother. It went okay for a while until the mother tried to to stop her career as a public speaker. When she refused, her mother, the one that unsuccessfully tried to abort her, told her that she was a disgrace to her entire family.
