Perry

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Posts by Perry

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  20

  Take a look over my shoulder

  by Doug Mason in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i have assigned myself a probably impossible task: i want to see if i can pick out the highlights of the evolution of judaeo/christian soteriology (doctrine of salvation).

  i am making available the first draft very rough ideas of two chapters at:.

  http://www.jwstudies.com/take_a_look_over_my_shoulder.pdf .

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  Perry

  If the readers decide to reject the concept of salvation, Doug unintentionally is doing a great service to humanity

  I am sure Doug is a very fine researcher. But he as much as says that this is his intentional purpose or at least a "practical" outcome in his estimation. That is what I questioned.

  The vast majority of mankind believes in a Creator. Not wanting to make this about evolution, but millions of scientists and highly educated professionals do not believe that materialism can account for the biodiversity we observe. This does not even begin to address the necessity of life appearing from non life, the problem of irreducible complexity etc, etc, etc.

  I only bring this up to establish the fact that most people don't see the evidence to prove a self existing universe, spontaneous generation of life from non life. To them, these concepts ALSO appear like "fairy tales and myths" as you state.

  To believers in an intelligent creator, it is unimaginable that a Creator would create the possibility of evil, and not have some mechanism to deal with it. This would make him the actual foment-er of evil, its purveyor and enabler. This doesn't jive with our own PROVABLE posession of morality.

  Since we globally have certain notions on morality, right and wrong, ought and ought not etc. that are unique to humans only, then the issue of Salvation is important to humanity, because the issue of evil and judgement is important to humanity as well.
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  20

  Take a look over my shoulder

  by Doug Mason in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i have assigned myself a probably impossible task: i want to see if i can pick out the highlights of the evolution of judaeo/christian soteriology (doctrine of salvation).

  i am making available the first draft very rough ideas of two chapters at:.

  http://www.jwstudies.com/take_a_look_over_my_shoulder.pdf .

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  Perry

  Perhaps this will cause some ask why they accept any version. So I see this as having a potentially practical outcome

  
  

  So your objective is to introduce as much doubt as possible so that people would reject the concept of Salvation in general? I would think that you would need to start with Judgement first and show why that concept is false.

  But, if God doesn't judge, wouldn't that make him an enabler of sin? Also, If we say that God shouldn't judge, isn't that an "ought" statement? On what basis or by what authority should God do or not do anything.

  Where does that moral judgement come from.... random chance?

  
  

  
  
  
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  17

  The 26 Prophetic Failures of Watchtower’s Most Heralded Date, 1914

  by FatFreek 2005 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  below is a paste of the front of this, my recent, essay.

  most jws, and lurkers here, have never really thought of the scope of watchtower's 1914 prophecy.

  to them, 1914 was a simple one and done -- a mistake was made and it's been corrected.

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  Perry

  Good work!

  The 1914 obsession of the WT can never be fully understood until you realize this was THE mechanism by which they stole peoples' salvation by mean of the New Covenant.

  By time warping everyone and getting them to believe that the gentile times "church age" had ended, they then began to make the argument that it really wasn't disobedience to Jesus to reject the New Covenant at each Memorial ...for general members. The heaven vs. earth destination they harped on, is a non-issue as it pertains to Salvation from judgement.

  Since the New Covenant (blood covenant) guaranteed salvation, and since the JW's were no longer open to accepting Jesus' offer, the "need" arose for people to work for their Salvation instead of just accepting it like previous generations were able to do.

  The Watchtower was all to eager to step in and provide for this new-found "need" for salvation.

  What a happifying provision that turned out to be..... not.

  The really ridiculous thing is, that the tribulation saints (and yes they are a different group than the Church-Age Beleivers) are still declared righteous by the exact same means as previous believers were ... by the blood covenant.

  The great crowd washed their robes and made them white in the blood [covenant] of the lamb". - Revelation

  But, by getting people to believe that they were in a future group spoken of in Revelation, they were able to build on this difference and argue that Salvation was also by a different means.

  "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No man cometh to the father but by me" (The New Covenant) - Jesus
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  9

  Evaluation of my dream..Give it a shot..

  by James Mixon in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i'am chased by monsters and jw's, i turn and confront the whole gang and they all embrace me.lol.

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  Perry

  Definitely the love bombing at the Mormon church..... but bad guacamole has been known to have similar effects.
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  29

  The true cost of being raised as a witness

  by stuckinarut2 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  how do you view your upbringing as a witness?.

  most of us who were raised as witnesses would appreciate that some aspects of our upbringing were ok. a foundation and measure of stability came with it.. but, it struck me too, that we also lost so very much!

  and we lost a lot of potential.. by this i mean, we need to look at not just what we lost, or what was deprived of us, but what that ended up costing us as adults into the future.. if i take $10 from you, you have lost just $10.. but, if you were going to use that $10 to buy something that would end up earning you $1000, then i actually took $1000 from you!.

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  Perry

  The JW lifestyle is all about placing on hold literally everything because everyone is hunkered down for the Big A. ......A siege mentality.

  As a result of this fear, most JW parents are emotionally unavailable to varying degrees. It is this emotional unavailability that takes the largest toll in my opinion, aside from the obvious spiritual abuse. It has consequences on the family even after a person leaves.

  This is an excerpt from a relevant article"

  1. Loss of hope, faith, and joy: For many adults who were raised under an emotionally void parent there is a deep feeling of loss and grief. The “loss” of a parent who is still living and breathing can seem like the most tragic experience. To look at a parent in the eyes or hear their voice and yet feel so far away, is tragic. The inability to connect to the very person who brought you into this world is tragic. It is like a tease. It is like a distant fantasy. Sadly, the adult child begins to feel a sense of grief and loss of hope, faith, and joy. Sometimes adult children internalize their emotions and begin to feel depressed, suicidal, or self-injurious. This is often when substance abuse begins.

  Article
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  19

  Back again to say hi! Life update after walking away from the cult.

  by Darkknight757 in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  i hope all is well.

  my last post over a month ago was going to be the last considering i wanted to get away from all things jw but this place is much harder to ignore than previously thought.

  life has taken some very interesting turns since late last year.

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  Perry

  Well done!

  That's moving pretty fast.
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  36

  In Your Opinion Do Today's Elders Recognize That The Religion Is BS?

  by minimus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i always wondered that while i was in especially when i was an elder.

  i recognize that some people,elders included are brain-dead.

  but do you think that the average older today knows it's all nonsense?

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  Perry

  I once shared some information with an elder and his wife (both who happened to work for me) of a pretty benign nature illustrating how the WT counseling methods might not be the best. I presented some Awake articles and quotes to illustrate my points. The response?

  I was told to be careful, because they once knew of a person who started questioning small things and now they are out of the "truth". They even agreed with my assessment, but that was irrelevant !

  For life-long elders, "the club" is all that matters. The club is their idol, their object of worship, and they are its priests.

  Knowing TTATT isn't nearly as important as protecting their idol. They don't want to to see their idol fall. So, most will go along with just about anything.

  That is what I saw. They are having their reward in full. Judgement is coming. They need a Savior like everyone else.
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  26

  Does Paul preach a fundamentally different religion than Jesus?

  by Yesu Kristo Bwana Wangu in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  controversy has arisen regarding jesus versus paul as scholars debate the different emphases and messages of jesus and paul.1 jesus preached the kingdom of heaven.

  paul did not.

  paul preached justification by faith alone.

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  Perry

  Jesus also warns His disciples, “Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves”

  In Luke 6: 37; Jesus obviously wasn't stating that we throw out discernment along with hyper-judgementalism.
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  12

  I was manning a cart

  by closed in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i was manning a cart not long ago.

  o, aye:) .

  a man, who i suspect is familiar with this site comes to me.

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  Perry

  Yes, the pattern is overlapping circularity, but it is still bovine excrement, a whole heap of it.

  It stinks the same no matter how you arrange it.
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  26

  I feel like I'm losing my religion/faith

  by christina1111 in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  i'm a baptized jw...been baptized for 8 years...and throughout the years i've been baptized i see "hypocrisy" so to speak in the religion...when you're new and not baptized that's when the jws want to invite you to every gathering they have, they want to appear like they're your best friend...they want to help you out when needed and so forth...however, once you're baptized you go to the elders for help they don't help you....all they do is gather you around the office...have bibles in hand and so forth...they give you articles as well, instead of physically helping you out....but yet when you weren't baptized they would physically help you out and not throw scriptures and articles in your face.

  also when you ask for help and so forth with the bros/sisters they want to throw the "each one must carry his/her own load" scripture at you.....but yet what happened to the scripture of taking care of widows and people who are orphans?.

  it's not just one congregation...throughout the 8 years i've been baptized i've been through many kingdom halls...many towns...many states...when i was inactive for awhile i even pretended to not be baptized and just play dumb when the witnesses came to my door...they're much nicer to you when you're not baptized then when you are baptized...why is that?.

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  Perry

  He said "If anyone comes to me and does not hate father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters--yes, even their own life--such a person cannot be my disciple".

  
  

  Jesus also demonstrated things like, that there were in reality only two laws: Love God and Love your Neighbor as Yourself. He also said his yoke was easy and his load was light - unlike other pursuits.

  Man-Centered religion & ideologies on the other hand, (including and maybe especially bible cults) are deeply works based. They bind up heavy loads on adherents that they themselves are unwilling to bear.

  The scripture you cited has special meaning for me. I left the Watchtower willingly, but I was unwilling for years to stand up to my family and state to them my desire to be a Christian apart from the Watchtower.

  Until I did that, they just viewed me as "weak". The funny thing is, they were right. Jesus words, are incredibly liberating.