In the past I have described the JW experience as a cross between N. Korean brain-washing tactics and mafia-style callousness..... displayed by people who wear suits.
I remember a Circuit Overseer stating that he had heard that some people had accused JW's as being brain washed. He then stated with a smirky smile that most people probably needed to have their brains washed.
Posts by Perry
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8Interesting
by dogisgod ini just heard this the other day.
growing up a jehovahs witness is like growing up in no.
korea.
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Perry
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Joseph Rutherford = Donald Trump
by Wild_Thing ini have been rereading a lot about rutherford lately; about his personality and the kind of person he was.
i have come to the conclusion that he was a lot like donald trump.. he was an accused womanizer.. he was a narcissist with a self inflated ego.
he claimed to be persecuted by the media all the time.
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Perry
There is complaint in various places that the Watch Tower studies have degenerated into mere reading lessons.
Seems like this has been a problem from the beginning.
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The dishonesty of JWs vs mainstream churches
by Wonderment inone of the most vexing matters confronting us as christians has to do with the apparent lack of honesty of so-called "christian" teachers on the many issues they frequently talk about.
this should not be shocking to us since scripture tells us that "everyone has sinned.
" (rom.
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Perry
There are far more capable people than I that have studied this out:
https://zondervanacademic.com/blog/bible-contradictions-explained/
Preterism holds that Ancient Israel finds its continuation or fulfillment in the Christian church at the destruction of Jerusalem in AD 70. This is also called "Replacement Theology". The Watchtower has adopted a type of replacement theology where (in their view) Israel's national contract with God that was inaugurated on Mt. Sinai was transferred onto them, the Wt. leaders. Neither view lines up with scripture:
Galatians 3:
For all who rely on the works of the law are under the curse. For it is written, “Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all things which are written in the Book of the Law, to do them.”11 Now it is evident that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, for “The just shall live by faith.”12 But the law is not of faith, for “The man who does them shall live by them.”13 Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law by being made a curse for us—as it is written, “Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree”14 so that the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ, that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
The Law and the Promise
15 Brothers, I am speaking in human terms: Though it is only a man’s covenant, yet if it is ratified, no one annuls or adds to it. 16 Now the promises were made to Abraham and his Seed. He does not say, “and to seeds,” meaning many, but “and to your Seed,”meaning one, who is Christ. 17 And this I say, that the law, which came four hundred and thirty years later, does not annul the covenant that was ratified by God in Christ, so as to nullify the promise. 18 For if the inheritance comes from the law, it no longer comes from the promise. But God gave it to Abraham through a promise.And Romans 1: 25 - For I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers, lest you be wise in your own estimation, for a partial hardening has come upon Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in.
Clearly, the old and new covenants are running concurrently. The former is a national covenant where only the nation of Israel is guaranteed survival. (The modern nation of Israel testifies to its veracity). The new covenant is a personal contract between God and the believer. It is FAR better because it irrevocably guarantees the avoidance of Personal Condemnation for the believer..... because Christ was condemned in our place, suffering our due punishment. God adopts us and takes personal responsibility for our continued existence, training, discipline, and yes ... he often spoils us with many gifts; just as we do with our own children.
We are nearing the close of the Age of Grace (the current dispensation) . God will shortly deal directly with the nation of modern Israel, after the rapture of the christian believers; to restore their belief. As a nation, this time they will treat the King with the proper respect. When they collectively cry out "blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord", then he will return.But, it will take global upheaval to get them to do that. But, it is going to happen..... guaranteed. The Return of the King.
One more dispensation to go - The Millennium.Will be quite a ride.
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The dishonesty of JWs vs mainstream churches
by Wonderment inone of the most vexing matters confronting us as christians has to do with the apparent lack of honesty of so-called "christian" teachers on the many issues they frequently talk about.
this should not be shocking to us since scripture tells us that "everyone has sinned.
" (rom.
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Perry
Mr. Roboto,
Paul was accepted as an apostle by Peter, James and John... Jesus' closest confidants. Jesus admitted that he was sent primarily to the JEWS, the benefactors of previous agreements between God and Abraham , Moses etc. Largely, he was not received.
Paul speaks of dispensations.; Which are different ways God relates to man in different time periods. Jesus, being God himself manifest in the flesh, spoke of the current dispensation prophetically. Paul was chosen to get the new dispensation kicked off.
In a nutshell, the message to the Jews was Mt. 24: 14 (a kingdom message). This is what the Jews were waiting on and should have resonated with them. Apparently Jesus wasn't macho enough for them.
The message to the gentiles is recorded in Acts. Ch. 10 where (the resurrected) Jesus instructs Peter and the other apostles to emphasize Judgment as the message to the gentiles. All people will be personally judged AFTER they die. (Heb. 9:27) Paul spearheaded this alternate message, since the kingdom message was rejected. This easily accounts for the differences in message between Jesus and Paul.... and obviously makes no other sense otherwise:
Matt. 22:Jesus spoke to them again by parables, saying, 2 “The kingdom of heaven is like a certain king who arranged a marriage for his son, 3 and sent out his servants to call those who were invited to the wedding, but they would not come.
4 “Again, he sent out other servants, saying, ‘Tell those who are invited: See, I have prepared my supper. My oxen and fattened calves are killed, and everything is ready. Come to the wedding banquet.’
5 “But they made light of it and went their ways, one to his farm, another to his business; 6 the rest took his servants, treated them spitefully, and killed them. 7 When the king heard about it, he was angry. He sent in his army and destroyed those murderers and burned up their city. (In 70 AD the Romans did this)
8 “Then he said to his servants, ‘The wedding is ready, but those who were invited were not worthy. 9 Go therefore to the streets, and invite to the wedding banquet as many as you find.’ 10 So those servants went out into the streets and gathered together as many as they found, both bad and good. So the wedding hall was filled with guests.
That invitation is still open to anyone who would receive it.... some 2000 years later. But, the hour is late.
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The dishonesty of JWs vs mainstream churches
by Wonderment inone of the most vexing matters confronting us as christians has to do with the apparent lack of honesty of so-called "christian" teachers on the many issues they frequently talk about.
this should not be shocking to us since scripture tells us that "everyone has sinned.
" (rom.
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Perry
John 1.1; John 1.18; John 8.58; Acts 20.28; Hebrews 1.8
The early church elders (fathers) taught & quoted these scriptures.... a lot. Many were students taught directly by the apostles. They clarified and defended the doctrines laid out for us in the scriptures. Reading their writings leaves no doubt as to the beliefs handed down to us starting with the apostles.http://thecripplegate.com/did-the-early-church-affirm-jesus-deity/
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Go to memorial tonight and chug the entire cup when it's passed to you
by Bad_Wolf inhas anybody done this?
i'd love to hear the story.
i wonder how they'd scramble to fix that if somebody chugged the whole glass, and even more if was set up with two people to sit in places to get both glasses at the same time.
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Perry
Hi neat blue dog, and thank you.
My ability to post new topics has been disabled for a couple years now. I have sent Simon a couple requests to look into this but he has never responded.
If this was done intentionally, it shows that in some places freedom is controlled outside the WT as much as it is in.
What do you say Simon? Time to reinstate your favorite Christian? -
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Go to memorial tonight and chug the entire cup when it's passed to you
by Bad_Wolf inhas anybody done this?
i'd love to hear the story.
i wonder how they'd scramble to fix that if somebody chugged the whole glass, and even more if was set up with two people to sit in places to get both glasses at the same time.
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Perry
I have witnessed the mental rape of 6 generations of my family that tricked them into participating in the annual rejection of the New Covenant. This is a ceremony only practiced by one other group - Santanists.
After coming to Christ after a JW upbringing where both sides of my family were JW's for generations, I have been hard pressed to find an adequate description of the experience.
I finally found a video that details the intricacies and subtle nuances that accompany the experience of being raised as a Jehovah's Witness:
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No Bible = No God?
by menrov insome doubt about the bible completely, some partially.
what if the bible turns out to be a product of humans, nothing divine.
would you still believe in a creator?.
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Perry
Cofty,
Call me when these 4 folks start getting shunned by their families, persecuted and choosing death over recanting. No comparison.
Jesus' body almost certainly rotted in a mass grave or rubbish tip in Jerusalem.
The scholars all agree that this "viscious superstition" (as Josephus characterized it) happened right in Jerusalem where the execution and the resurrection took place. Dontcha just know that they searched high and low for the body. That would have put the lie to all these fisherman troubles.. All they ever found was an empty tomb.
His presence with his followers was in the same sense that millions of others vividly feel the presence of dead loved ones. It is a human response to grief and loss.
Paul had no sense of grief and/or loss. He was seeking to stamp out this Jesus thing. James, Jesus half/brother though that Jesus was "beside himself"... that is until he met him after he was killed. This possible explanation falls short.
OTWO,Is it possible that there exists a dimension that is beyond our 3D universe? One outside of our space/time experience? Conclusive evidence exists that shows time is relative. Why take such a hard line on this point?
It's all so simple.
To someone I'm sure it is....not to us. -
113
No Bible = No God?
by menrov insome doubt about the bible completely, some partially.
what if the bible turns out to be a product of humans, nothing divine.
would you still believe in a creator?.
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Perry
Fink are you referring to this passage:
And he said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That there be some of them that stand here, which shall not taste of death, till they have seen the kingdom of God come with power.
2 And after six days Jesus taketh with him Peter, and James, and John, and leadeth them up into an high mountain apart by themselves: and he was transfigured before them.
3 And his raiment became shining, exceeding white as snow
In each of the Gospels, the next event immediately after this promise from Jesus is the transfiguration. Rather than interpreting Jesus' promise as referring to His coming to establish His kingdom on earth, the context indicates that Jesus was referring to the transfiguration. The Greek word translated "kingdom" can also be translated "royal splendor," meaning that the three disciples standing there would see Christ as He really is—the King of heaven—which occurred in the transfiguration.ttdtt,
All religions require FAITH.
Definition: A strong belief in God or in the doctrines of a religion, based on spiritual apprehension rather than proof.The vast majority of life in general requires faith. We accept what others have told us all the time. In a court, there is no way to go back in time and create some sort of scientific test to make sure the murder was committed by the accused. Jurors review the evidence, witness testimony as well as other line of evidence and make a decision based upon the preponderance of evidence.
Based upon the things we know to be true, none of the explanations advanced to explain them in a naturalistic way are convincing. The ones put forward so far are actually more far fetched that the resurrection being true.
As if they don't want the resurrection to be true, some keep kicking the can down the road and ignore both atheist and bible believing scholars when they state that the events were believed to have taken place when and where they are reported to in the gospels.
If they can remove the events by several decades from the sources, then that opens the possibility of deception. But, that is not what scholars are saying.By Gary Habermas:
My Minimal Facts Argument in favor of Jesus’ resurrection was developed many years ago while writing my PhD dissertation. It has two requirements for the historical facts that are used: each must be confirmed by several strong and independent arguments, plus the vast majority of even critical scholars must recognize the occurrence’s historical nature. The critical scholars can be liberal, skeptical, agnostic, or even atheist, as long as they are specialists in a relevant field of study, such as New Testament. Of these two requirements, it is important to recognize that the initial standard concerning strong evidential back-up is by far the most crucial.
So why do even critical scholars admit or allow these individual historical facts? The answer is that each one is virtually undeniable. Most of the half-dozen Minimal Facts typically used are confirmed by ten or more historical considerations each. That is simply an amazing foundation, especially for events that occurred in the First Century AD!
The half-dozen facts we usually use are these: 1) that Jesus died by crucifixion; 2) that very soon afterwards, his followers had real experiences that they thought were actual appearances of the risen Jesus; 3) that their lives were transformed as a result, even to the point of being willing to die specifically for their faith in the resurrection message; 4) that these things were taught very early, soon after the crucifixion; 5) that James, Jesus’ unbelieving brother, became a Christian due to his own experience that he thought was the resurrected Christ; and 6) that the Christian persecutor Paul (formerly Saul of Tarsus) also became a believer after a similar experience.
One “secret” not readily known is that these skeptical scholars are quite willing to cite New Testament texts in order to buttress the historical nature of these six events. While not believing that these passages are inspired or even generally reliable, they still employ the individual texts that meet their standards of evidence. It is largely from these passages, plus occasionally from extra-New Testament writings, that they find plenty of data to accept these half-dozen events.
If you are interested in the historical back-up for these six facts admitted by virtually all scholars, as well as how these six can show that Jesus’ resurrection really happened, then attend the Saturday plenary lecture entitled, “Minimal Facts on the Resurrection that Even Skeptics Accept,” by Gary Habermas.
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113
No Bible = No God?
by menrov insome doubt about the bible completely, some partially.
what if the bible turns out to be a product of humans, nothing divine.
would you still believe in a creator?.
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Perry
Venus, P of N,
It seems that the problem is not that empirical exists, but rather that you all were not there personally to witness the spear thrust in his side, eat fish with him on the shore and to touch his side. But that is just silly. We believe many things that we personally haven't witnessed.
P of N , the bible is not a single source book. It is made up of many writers (witnesses). ... not circular reasoning.
Also, there are many extra biblical sources that support the supernatural accounts. As previously mentioned, Caesar had to issue a proclamation shortly thereafter banning bodies from being "stolen" from Jewish graves .... the exact kind of grave that had a rolled stone in front of it is mentioned. Rome never had a problem with their enemies staying dead before. (grave robbers don't steal bodies, they steal valuables buried with the bodies)
Jesus did miracles in front of witnesses, was beaten to a bloody pulp in front of witnesses, was hung on a cross and had a spear thrust into his side in front of witnesses, was buried in a tomb by witnesses, appeared again three days later (and for many days after that) in front of witnesses, and did more signs in front of witnesses.
Jesus calls the people to “look and see.” "See the people I healed. See me raised from the dead. Feel my hands.
Touch me, speak to me. Believe because I have given you very good reasons to believe."