In the Russian courtroom today:
Drearyweather
JoinedPosts by Drearyweather
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48
RUSSIA: (5 April 2017) Jehovah's Witnesses hearing under way
by jwleaks inthe trial has begun.
the crowd on the street (see photo) is now inside and the gallery is packed.. yesterday jehovah's witnesses presented a written legal argument - "objections to the administrative claim of the ministry of justice of the russian federation" - to the supreme court of russia which, in paragraph 254, argued that if the ministry for justice liquidates and bans the activities of jehovah's witnesses then this will force individual members to renounce or abandon their religion for fear of persecution.. download legal argument (russian).
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RUSSIA: (5 April 2017) Jehovah's Witnesses hearing under way
by jwleaks inthe trial has begun.
the crowd on the street (see photo) is now inside and the gallery is packed.. yesterday jehovah's witnesses presented a written legal argument - "objections to the administrative claim of the ministry of justice of the russian federation" - to the supreme court of russia which, in paragraph 254, argued that if the ministry for justice liquidates and bans the activities of jehovah's witnesses then this will force individual members to renounce or abandon their religion for fear of persecution.. download legal argument (russian).
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Drearyweather
Yes, even in India each congregation is registered as a separate registered religious trust with a trust deed and a separate legal identity.
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Russia - JWs Counterclaim
by Listener inthe witnesses lodged a counterclaim against their lawsuit on the 30 march, 2017.their argument is that the actions of the ministry of justice against them are 'political repressions'.the following link states "in the lawsuit numerous instances are cited testifying to the fact that prosecution of jehovah's witnesses is politically motivated."http://www2.stetson.edu/~psteeves/relnews/170402a.html.
it is a contradiction to what they have written in their "political neutrality' leaflet which states.
jehovah’s witnesses do not involve themselves in political issues or governmental affairs.
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Drearyweather
I'm not sure if I'm right. Political neutrality cannot equate to gullibility or being a silent victim of repression.
I feel there is a difference between appealing against a law and appealing against the misapplication of a law that would potentially criminalize someone just for practicing their beliefs.
If I pay taxes to the government, I am entitled to basic civil rights. Paying taxes to the government does not mean i'm getting politically involved with the government, same way, fighting for gaining basic civic liberties does not mean political involvement. At least what I feel.
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RUSSIA: (5 April 2017) Jehovah's Witnesses hearing under way
by jwleaks inthe trial has begun.
the crowd on the street (see photo) is now inside and the gallery is packed.. yesterday jehovah's witnesses presented a written legal argument - "objections to the administrative claim of the ministry of justice of the russian federation" - to the supreme court of russia which, in paragraph 254, argued that if the ministry for justice liquidates and bans the activities of jehovah's witnesses then this will force individual members to renounce or abandon their religion for fear of persecution.. download legal argument (russian).
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Drearyweather
Feed of the proceedings:
https://jw-russia.org/news/17040510-129.html10:58 Big beautiful courtroom crowded. There are more than 200 people, including many journalists, representatives of public organizations and foreign embassies. The hearing began at 10:30.
A little less than 250 people were left on the street waiting for the results of the hearing. Cook Street in Moscow is filled with cars with transmitting television antennas. Occurring remove numerous chamber. Of police radios periodically hear the message "All is calm, without incident." In the hall representatives of embassies and international organizations in the headphones listening to the process of translation.
The case was heard Judge Yuri Ivanenko. The defendant, "the Administrative Center of Jehovah's Witnesses in Russia" are 6 persons, including Vasily Kalin of the Steering Committee, as well as lawyers. The representative of Ministry of Justice of Russia - Svetlana Borisova. Attached to the case with the defendant's objections to the applications in 35 volumes.
The court allowed the photographing and video recording only when the announcement of the final act. However, there is no record of obstacles. In the hall there are about 40 members of the media, they occupy the first rows of the audience.
11:00 The court refused to accept a counter claim for recognition of the Ministry of Justice acts of political repression. The judge described the passage of objections to the claim sufficient measure of protection for the defendant. 11:15 Representatives of Jehovah's Witnesses apply for admission to participation in the case of representatives of all 395 local religious organizations. Lawyer little wife: "If believers throughout Russia will be deprived of their rights, let them hear it here in court." Local religious organizations, contrary to the logic of the Ministry of Justice, are not the structural units of each other, but separate legal entities. 11:20 The lawyer Lew gives an example: "The logic of the Ministry of Justice, it turns out, it is necessary to impose a sentence: Shoot chieftain. And his whole platoon. " 11:25 The court rejected the enlistment of the 395 local organizations as a respondent. 11:30 Jehovah's Witnesses have asked the court to allow audio broadcasting the trial. The court refused. 11:35 Lawyers for the Jehovah's Witnesses are asking the court to adjourn the hearing pending the outcome of another case in another court. It is an appeal to the Court of Justice order the suspension of the activities of organizations . 11:42 The Ministry of Justice objected, because it believes that the authorities had every right to suspend the activities of organizations. 11:45 The court refused to postpone the hearing. -
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Man answers the door naked when JW's appear..
by James Mixon inhttp;www.worlstarhipop.com/videos/video.php?v=wshhmg115hx2qp8inyuo.went too far, man answers the door naked when jw's appear..https//www.youtube.com/watch?v=akj2w94el_a...oh hell search, went to far, man answers the door naked when jw's appear, a young black male......it was e-mail to me and i'am using the same address but not working for me,hopefully you will find it.
a young jw child was present, not good.......
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Drearyweather
Indecent exposure is indecent exposure no matter who's going to who's door. JW's with their kids are not the only strangers coming to our house.
In such cases, the one exposing must be ready to get involved with the Police.
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About the JW Russian action
by Gorbatchov inwhat i don't get about the russian petition action:.
watchtower launched at march, 21 the petition action.. in the instructions they write it can take 14 days for postal arrival in russia.. on april, 5 they expect legal clarification from the supreme court.. so, conclusion: the letters will arrive just around the day of clarification.. conclusion: this action is planned for media impact only.
if it was to make judges think, (what they don't do on a petition cry), .
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Drearyweather
Yes. Even I agree.
However, recently I discussed this with a friend who had a chat regarding this with a person from the local branch office. JW's have used up all possible legal means to challenge this action. In fact negotiations with Russian officials had been on the cards right from the Moscow liquidation episode. They even had a tract distribution in Russia during that time which was called "Could it Happen Again?- A Question for the Citizens of Russia". Since Supreme Courts in Russia had already ruled unfavorably in many cases involving them, it remains a lost hope for JW's, especially due to the final suspension notice.
Jw's even made concessions in this. When their publications were put in the Banned list, they did not use it during their meetings and preaching. However, when it comes to basic beliefs, they wouldn't change their doctrines to match up with the extremism definition of Russia. They didn't do this during the Nazis, wont do it now. In fact, there would be no point in having religions revise their doctrines to match the Governments definition of what is extremist and what is not,
Now, since legal options are almost zero, JW's have started using their so called Theocratic strategy, i.e. invoking a sense of 'family' among other JW's across the world. Spiritually, since all JW's consider themselves as a part of one big brotherhood, they have now used up their final means of direct confrontation. According to some witnesses I know, this letter campaign is not about Putin vs Jws, but Jehovah vs Satan. This campaign is to invoke a sense of solidarity and oneness among the witnesses. The same source mentioned that the Russian branch has already planned an extensive underground Plan B, in case the April 5 decisions goes against them. And this underground activity of JW's is what bothers me the most.
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About the JW Russian action
by Gorbatchov inwhat i don't get about the russian petition action:.
watchtower launched at march, 21 the petition action.. in the instructions they write it can take 14 days for postal arrival in russia.. on april, 5 they expect legal clarification from the supreme court.. so, conclusion: the letters will arrive just around the day of clarification.. conclusion: this action is planned for media impact only.
if it was to make judges think, (what they don't do on a petition cry), .
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Drearyweather
Depends on what type of postal service was used for sending the letters and from which part of the world the letters are sent.
From my congregation (India), 200 individuals letters were sent through registered speed post, sent on 23rd March and was delivered to Kremlin on 30th March.
Regarding media attention, they themselves admit in their press release:
“The Governing Body of Jehovah’s Witnesses wants to heighten attention to this critical situation,” states David A. Semonian, a spokesman at the Witnesses’ world headquarters.
https://www.jw.org/en/news/releases/by-region/russia/jw-mobilize-global-response-to-threat-of-ban/
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Great way to show the world your not extremists.
by pleaseresearch ini really don't know what to expect of this.
they are being labelled extremists in russia and are close to being banned.
so the show that they aren't extremists they encourage all jw's worldwide to bombard the kremlin and court with millions on letters..
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Drearyweather
Opinions may vary. But I don't think that writing letters or appealing a government official makes you political or non-neutral. If an atheist writes a letter to the JW HQ in Warwick about child abuse policies, does that make him a religious person?
Bible is full of narratives showing connections between worshipers and political authorities:
Abraham warred with King Chedorlaomer to save Lot
Moses and Aaron appealed Egyptian Pharaoh to let the Israelite's go.
Nehemiah appealed King Artaxerxes to allow him to fix the walls of Jerusalem.
In Acts 5, the apostles squarely told the high priest of the Sanhedrin that they won't stop preaching
Paul appealed to Caesar during his stint with Festus.
JW's do not vote and remain neutral. However, individual JW's pay their taxes and are eligible for the rights and civil liberties of the country where they live.
If JW's can send disaster relief funds to their fellow believers in other countries, then I'm ok with them writing letters in support of fellow JW's in other countries.
These are the words of Patriarch Krill of the Russian orthodox church:
"We must learn to be kind to each other. It is not necessary to have evil in my heart, even if you do not agree with each other. Do not get angry, do not squeeze the teeth, do not wish harm to another person. This is the beginning of love."
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Can we support Russian government's ban?
by intropist in글쓴이: 류비 / 시간: 목, 03/30/2017 - 14:48. .
hi, i want to leave my personal opinion on the matter of russian government's banning on the activity of jehovah's witnesses in their territory.
i think it's more or less important because bearing a certain opinion is related with the quality of life.
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Drearyweather
I consider ISIS as extremist not just because of the propaganda that they publish, but because of the atrocities that they are committing. Even though there cant be a perfect figure, at least we have an estimate of the number of civilians that are killed by the ISIS, and video footages of the demolition of the antique architecture of Iraq.
Its true that JW's do publish information that can be considered as extremist. In such cases, banning the publications is necessary. However, since Russia is banning the JW's altogether, does Russia have absolute data on the following issues:
1. Blood ban: How many witnesses in Russia have died due to refusal of blood transfusion?
2. Breaking families: How many people in Russia have been affected by the disfellowshipping offence? If not an actual figure, has Russia documented the stories of such people and investigated all the cases where accusations were made of families getting torn apart due to JW teachings?
3. Fostering hatred: Has Russia tried to document cases where this has happened? Have they provided video footage of the meetings or assemblies to the public to show that hatred is propagated from the stage?
Russia needs to make the world aware with proper facts and cases.
If the publication is extremist, publish the quotes to the public and ban the publication.
If people are extremist, document the cases to the public and then ban them.
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Proposed Apostate takeover campaign
by zound infictional apostate takeover campaign.
stage #1.. what if in a town that had a particularly large amount of apostates and ex-jw's, over a period of a few months, they started going to a small congregation.
either pretending they were bible studies or just returning jw's, they got good standing in the congregation, priveleges etc.
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Drearyweather
zound, :)
You forgot one detail- you will need one apostate CO as well and then an apostate service desk in the local branch.