Posts by Drearyweather

25

In theory, can one be disfellowshipped for attempted suicide?

by Saename in

so i was recently reading the reasons for disfellowshipping as listed in shepherd the flock of god.

the handbook is available online here: https://thetruthofjehowaswittness.files.wordpress.com/2012/12/jehovas-vitner.pdf.. on page 59, point #4, it lists attempted suicide as a reason for disfellowshipping.

has it ever been removed?

Drearyweather

On page 59, point #4, it lists attempted suicide as a reason for disfellowshipping. Has it ever been removed?

No, it has not been removed. However, it has a line at the end of the point saying that in most of the attempted suicide cases, judicial hearings are not required.

Have the Jehovah's Witnesses added some hand-written notes to this point?

No policy letter has been issued on this point since 2010. No marginal notes either.

In theory, can one still be disfellowshipped for attempted suicide?

Suicide/Attempted suicide in itself is not a disfellowshipping offence. However, if the attempt for suicide was made to run away from a gross wrongdoing, the wrongdoing will form a reason for DF'ing. In some countries, attempted suicide is still punishable by law. See Section 309 of Indian Penal Code which criminalizes attempted suicide. Not all attempted suicide cases are due to depression or mental illness.

I noticed that they don't call these reasons "reasons for disfellowshipping" but rather "reasons for forming a judicial committee." Even though the two seem to be the same?

No, these two are not the same. Not all Judicial Committees end up in a disfellowshipping verdict. There are many cases which just end up in a judicial reproof of 3/6/12 months or so.

23

Irish Elders deleted by Watchtower for reporting child sex abuse allegation to police

by Diogenesister in

two elders have been deleted by watchtower for reporting an allegation of child sexual abuse to the police, contrary to watchtower orders (a jw paedophile with a history, apparently).

when the british branch discovered what the elders had done they arranged for 3 elders to fly over to ireland, at the congregations expense no less, to hold a special jc for the ' rogue' congregation elders.

one elder and the cobe were deleted, two were allowed to continue.

Drearyweather

Well Drearyweather perhaps some people in your religion actually have a conscience and think it's wrong to sexually abuse children. Perhaps they believe they should inform the authorities when a crime has been committed, which is what your Bible says, you should be obedient to the governments because they are placed in their positions by God.

Xanthippe, This is what happens when you try to read what I have not written.

No where have I implied that a person should not report child abuse to the police. I am not discussing the moral aspect of child abuse.

My point is should an elder continue as an elder if he feels that the policies of the WT are not right? Should he go against the directives of the WT and expect no reprisals in return?

Remember the Bible? Or do you just obey those seven men in America?

The answer is very simple. A JW has to do both. If you are an appointed elder, you receive the Shepherding textbook and are expected to read it thoroughly. Regarding what elders are to do, Chapter 2, the two bullet points under main point 1 says:

1. Let the Bible be your guide.

2. Obey direction coming from agencies used by the "faithful and discreet slave"....

There you are. The four elders (including 1 COBOE) have themselves agreed to obey the 'seven men in America'. So if you don't want to follow them, you don't accept the position of an elder. If you accept, you automatically agree to abide by their policies and also agree that the 'seven men' can delete you for non-compliance.

Remember, WT is not a religion, it's a corporation. It has its own rules and regulations. Elders who truly follow their conscience will not continue as elders even after knowing all their policies. You may be a minor when you are baptized, but you are mature enough when appointed as an elder.

The elders in this case have done the right thing. However, they should expect to face the consequences from the WT for not following the policies. That's my point.

23

Irish Elders deleted by Watchtower for reporting child sex abuse allegation to police

by Diogenesister in

two elders have been deleted by watchtower for reporting an allegation of child sexual abuse to the police, contrary to watchtower orders (a jw paedophile with a history, apparently).

when the british branch discovered what the elders had done they arranged for 3 elders to fly over to ireland, at the congregations expense no less, to hold a special jc for the ' rogue' congregation elders.

one elder and the cobe were deleted, two were allowed to continue.

Drearyweather

Drearyweather elders are required to inform the branch first about allegations of child abuse before going to the police even though sexual assault is a crime.

So they never informed the WT? Why? Their conscience didn't allow?

They already knew that elders are supposed to inform the legal department first. So if your conscience doesn't allow you to follow this directive, how is it allowing you to continue as an elder in the first place? An elder is bound to come into this scenario one day or the other.

An elder knows that he has to follow the directives in the elders book and the policy letters. If he believes that the procedures are incorrect and inhuman, he has to either resign/step down himself or be ready to be deleted later.

23

Irish Elders deleted by Watchtower for reporting child sex abuse allegation to police

by Diogenesister in

two elders have been deleted by watchtower for reporting an allegation of child sexual abuse to the police, contrary to watchtower orders (a jw paedophile with a history, apparently).

when the british branch discovered what the elders had done they arranged for 3 elders to fly over to ireland, at the congregations expense no less, to hold a special jc for the ' rogue' congregation elders.

one elder and the cobe were deleted, two were allowed to continue.

Drearyweather

contrary to Watchtower orders

not following company directives

What exactly were these orders and directives which they did not follow?

30

If there was a resurrection in paradise

by Sour Grapes in

something that bothered me even when i was a watchtower company drone was the thought of dying and being resurrected in paradise.

would the resurrected person really be me or just a copy of me?

if god could recreate one of me, he could also recreate five of me.

Drearyweather

Would the resurrected person really be me or just a copy of me?

That won't matter. A prosthetic arm or leg can never replace the original, but can work wonders. Even a heart transplant, liver transplant, etc are not originals, but people still go for it for continuing their lives. After a blood transfusion, how many people balk at the idea that someone else's (in many cases you don't know whose) blood is running through their veins? Heck with that. Life continues, the fact that you are alive is what matters.

So if living is all that matters, people won't have issues whether their bodies are clones, originals or a recreation of their old selves. The concept of meeting your loved ones and being alive and kicking is what attracts people.

26

Some more background information on Geoffrey Jackson

by Listener in

born in 1955 jacko was baptized at 13 years of age in 1968.his life story, printed in the august 2015 watchtower doesn't state the year in which he married, it's fairly general when talking about it.

hmmm, i wonder why?i've come across a recording of an interview with jacko at a hall dedication in another part of the us in 2009 which provides some further information.he married his first wife, jenny, in 1974 at the grand old age of 19. no wonder they didn't want to print it in the watchtower.unfortunately his first wife, jenny, was diagnosed with cancer in 1999.in 2003 jacko was sent a letter from the gb stating he was being transferred to hq and his wife would be given appropriate work.

he initially didn't know why they were being called to hq as he felt they were being very productive in their fijian paradise, he states that they brought 75 people into the truth.

Drearyweather

He wondered why he couldn't tell his wife

Did he actually tell this in the interview? Strange.

All brothers who are appointed to any capacity, be it Elders, MS, etc are told to keep it confidential (even to their wife) till the formal announcement is made. This applies even when you are appointed to the GB. He himself must have told this numerous times to other brothers while appointing them.

47

Outside JW World They Barely Exist

by Farmer Jim1 in

jw
friends

is anyone else staggered by the fact that outside of the organization most of the general public seem to know very little or nothing about jw’s?

when i was in i was led to believe that 99% of the worlds population had been giving sufficient warning, knew what it was all about and were stubbornly sticking to their immoral ways.

the reality seems to be that the entire jw universe is barely noticeable to the masses.

Drearyweather

They pointed out that the scriptures do not say that every individual has to be preached to .

W10 9/15, page 10, Para 12:

We recognize that the end could come at any time; Jehovah’s timing is not contingent on our giving a personal witness to every individual on the planet. (Matt. 10:23) Moreover, we receive good direction on how to carry out our preaching work effectively. In faith, we participate in this work to the best of our ability, using whatever resources are at our disposal.Will we always preach in the most productive territory? Really, how could we know in advance? (Read Ecclesiastes 11:5, 6.) Our job is to preach, trusting that Jehovah will give us his blessing.

Matt 10:23: When they persecute you in one city, flee to another;+ for truly I say to you, you will by no means complete the circuit of the cities of Israel until the Son of man arrives.

19

JWs don’t break up families

by Jules Saturn in

i get very angry when i hear this claim being made by jws and get even angrier when i read the article they have on their faq section on jw.org which i’ll leave a link here:.

https://www.jw.org/en/jehovahs-witnesses/faq/families/.

i know that the majority of this article is written about having a spouse that isn’t a believer and how the bible encourages them to stay together but that’s one of the things that can cause division in a family, for an example if a son or daughter marry a nonbeliever or a worldly person the parents aren’t going to attend the wedding.. once i was told by an elder that if i continued with my behavior of wanting to seek worldly friends and worldly companionship that i would have to leave my home because the holy spirit would leave my house and that would have a huge impact on my family.

Drearyweather

I ask myself where is the biblical instruction on this?

This is the Biblical principle:

Matt 10:34-36:

Do not think I came to bring peace to the earth; I came to bring, not peace, but a sword.+ 35 For I came to cause division, with a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law.+ 36 Indeed, a man’s enemies will be those of his own household. 37 Whoever has greater affection for father or mother than for me is not worthy of me; and whoever has greater affection for son or daughter than for me is not worthy of me.+

4

The God of This System Of Things 2 Cor.4:4 is the same God of Rom 13:1-7

by smiddy3 in

aren`t these two scriptures talking about the one and same god ?.

2 cor.4:4 speaks about the god of this system of things blinding the minds of unbelievers .. this scripture has always been attributed as to applying to satan the devil.

he is not blinding the minds of believers but unbelievers and i think that is a critical point about 2cor.4:4. rom.13:1-7 states that christians should be in subjection to the superior authorities under the arrangement of god and whoever opposers the authority has taken a stand against god.

Drearyweather

So in 2 Cor 4:4, Jehovah is blinding the minds of unbelievers so that the good news about Christ doesn't reach them.

And then 2 Cor 4:6, Jehovah says Let the light shine out of darkness.

So Jehovah is letting the light shine on people and then blinding their eyes too so that the light doesn't reach them?

8

Communication seems to be a big problem even today

by venus in

communication seems to be a big problem even today.

1) bible commanded ‘don’t make images, don’t make any other mediator than jesus …etc.’ yet most of the christian organizations understood the command as saying to fill their churches with images and mediators.. 2) if charles t russel had read at least the first few pages of the bible seriously, he would not have taken the bible seriously.

the manner in which the genesis account opens shows it to be somebody’s tradition whose owner is unknown because it begins abruptly; it is nobody that speaks; it is nobody that hears; it is addressed to nobody; it has neither first, second, nor third person; it has every criterion of being a tradition; it has no voucher.

Drearyweather

Communication seems to be a big problem even today

Interpretation of what has been communicated is a bigger problem