Posts by Drearyweather

14

Just because something is old, does not mean it is "Special" or "Sacred" or "Valuable"

by stuckinarut2 in

a thought occurred to me that simply because something is old does not make it valuable or worthy of sacred reverence.. the bible is held up as sacred just because it is "old" and apparently preserved.. but, that does not make sense.

if in thousands of years someone finds a notebook of my scribbles or sketches that i threw away, that doesn't elevate them to "valuable status" simply because they survived.

they were thrown away because they were worthless.. or if an archaeologist finds an ancient broken bit of pottery that was used for garbage disposal, it doesn't change its status from what it once was - a garbage bin.. i guess what i am trying to ask is, why is it that we as humans give value to writings just because they are old?.

Drearyweather

But, that does not make sense. If in thousands of years someone finds a notebook of my scribbles or sketches that I threw away, that doesn't elevate them to "valuable status" simply because they survived. They were thrown away because they were worthless.

A thousand years from today, someone who is interested in studying the paper material, ink, cardboard etc of our day would find your notebook interesting. He may not be concerned about what your notes or sketches are.

However, if the personal diary of someone like Anne Frank comes up, many would read and value it and probably learn from it.

May be no one in the world worships Artemis or ancient Greek gods. But that does not stop people from visiting ancient temples and ruins, just for the sake of antiquity.

So why is the Bible special? For some it is simply a piece of writing compiled thousands of years ago. For some, it a sacred book that needs to be revered and for some it is nothing but garbage.

Would someone value a 4,000 year old piece of pottery sherd or a garbage bin kept in a museum? If no one valued such things, we wouldn't have museums around.

I guess what I am trying to ask is, why is it that we as humans give value to writings just because they are old?

Because some writings give valuable insight on the way things were in the ancient civilizations, and sometimes they may be just a piece of papyrus with a single letter scribbled on it.

Some people who get convinced by them, choose to believe it and live by it.

24

Uninvited...again...

by Anders Andersen in

jw
friends

so a week or so ago we received an invitation for a jw friend's wedding anniversary party in the mail.it was addressed to 'the andersen family' (and not just mrs. andersen & baby andersen) which was pleasant of course, but not a huge surprise given the type of person who said friend is.. however, i already prepared myself to be uninvited after all.

some time ago, there was a congregation farewell party/get-together.to my surprise, i was invited too!

an elder specifically came over to my house to tell me.then some weeks later, he visited again, being terribly sorry but the invitation was revoked as the congregation got concerned over my possible presence.. with that debacle in mind, i wasn't surprised to receive a message from my friend 'hey are you at home?

Drearyweather

Yesterday he told me I'm not invited anymore as the congregation was getting upset about me being there.

Recently, during the CO visit meeting with the elders, the CO made a point on this. If an elder or a MS organizes a only-JW gathering at his home and is inviting a family where a member is Da'ed or Df'ed or an active apostate, he has two options: either he can revoke the invitation to the family member or tell the other invitees personally that such a person would be present in the party so that they can choose whether to come or not.

31

Have Jehovah's Witnesses Become Boring?

by David_Jay in

okay, that new video about 1975 has got people talking, and yes, the child abuse cases will always require us to remain vigilant...but after my having left in the late 1980s/early 1990s, it seems all the real "exciting" stuff is gone.

when i left the witnesses were still preaching that the "generation that was old enough to understand the events of 1914" will not pass away before armageddon comes.

no blood cards were our badges (not that stupid jw logo) and that card meant what it said, "no blood"!

Drearyweather

David_Jay,

Thanks for your comments. I'm trying to give my perspective on this matter.

When I said that other religions can be boring too, I was implying the notion that based on personal experiences and one's outlook, anyone can make a comment on another's religion and faith, which may just be what it is- an opinion, not a fact.

Does a religion or a faith or a way of life become boring just because ex-members of that faith or religion feel so? What will be your view if a couple of ex-jews discuss this and tell that Judaism is boring because there is nothing much to discuss among them?

Bible students who left during the Rutherford era felt that the Russell Era was better and formed groups sticking to his teaching.

Hardliners who left during the Knorr era claimed that Rutherford Era was better and stuck with Rutherford's teachings. (e.g. True Faith JW's)

And then now we have those who felt that the Franz era was good and the current era is boring,

So, I feel that there would always be a group of people who will feel that JW's during their period (when they were active) were better than the current one (when they have left or in process of leaving). This would happen in the future too. And this is true for all religions.

Has Judaism benefited you? You have answered yes. But the answer would be different if you ask a person who has left and chosen to follow another religion.

Similarly, Have Jehovah's Witnesses become boring? The answer would depend upon whom you are asking.

But as you said, we all have our opinions and that is what they are: opinions.

31

Have Jehovah's Witnesses Become Boring?

by David_Jay in

okay, that new video about 1975 has got people talking, and yes, the child abuse cases will always require us to remain vigilant...but after my having left in the late 1980s/early 1990s, it seems all the real "exciting" stuff is gone.

when i left the witnesses were still preaching that the "generation that was old enough to understand the events of 1914" will not pass away before armageddon comes.

no blood cards were our badges (not that stupid jw logo) and that card meant what it said, "no blood"!

Drearyweather

I went back several years on this site and compared it with other sites in the exJW community. I saw a similar pattern in these others too. There's less and less to talk about regarding them. Why? It's that the Witnesses are just becoming more and more of nothing than they ever were.

There is less and less talk about JW's now compared to several years ago on this forum. This is also because some of the great posters who posted on this site years ago are no longer there. You had Ex-DO, Ex-Gilead Missionaries, Ex-translators, Ex-Bethel Members etc here, who posted some great stuff and engaged in constructive debate.

You are wasting your lives. Get out and get your family out today or this is the legacy you will leave your children: a wasted life in a boring religion where they will have to bury you and their children will have to bury them.

This is pretty much true for all religions, including Judaism.

9

Is this the JW great tribulation?

by greenhornet in

http://www.newsweek.com/jehovahs-witnesses-russia-ban-court-611138.

in russia it is.

now there going to say its coming to you!

Drearyweather

In Russia it is. Now there going to say its coming to you! They just love to be persecuted and they brag about it. The great Trib is here and Armageddon is around the corner.

Have JW's officially announced that the GT has started? at least in Russia? Share some details and sources.

19

One of the most defining thing that made me question JW church after 27 years was seeing the funeral discourse outline.

by Chook in

it gave the poor bastard who past away no respect, hardly mentioned anything about the deceased.

yet hijacked the event with cult propaganda..

Drearyweather

jwfacts,

The outline in the link is a very old outline (from 1988). There were two more revisions after it. A third new funeral discourse outline was released on December 2016.

However, the wordings in the Note section are somewhat same, but without using the word "Eulogize":

"Adapt the material to match the circumstances of the deceased and needs of the grieving ones. While not overpraising the deceased, you may use events from his life throughout the talk to show how those in attendance can benefit from his example. You may choose to arrange a well-rehearsed interview with a brother in good standing who knew the deceased well.

11

What's worse, 2 week old getting nearly 100 rat bites and living, or Jesus' torture and death?

by FatFreek 2005 in

some 35 miles from here, in the small town of magnolia, ar, a teen couple is in trouble -- as they should be -- for allowing their 2 week old girl, a 5 pound baby, to suffer nearly 100 bites from rats.

one of the bites was so large and deep it required plastic surgery.

i don't want to even think about the horror this teeny creature felt during those instances -- and the horrible nightmares she may suffer in years to come.. i wonder if this is one of those human experiences that may be worse than what christ suffered on that stake.

Drearyweather

never a jw,

You missed the part where I said "rational". Your arguments are purely emotional, subjective

Just to clarify, I was not providing any argument, but my personal opinion on your question.

I would have given you a rational reply if the subject being discussed was about Albert Einstein, Isaac Newton or Mahatma Gandhi.

Jesus, Krishna, Buddha, etc are figures that carry a personal and emotional weight for religious people. For historians or atheists, they are merely subjects for study and debate.

When I said that "Jesus gave the ultimate sacrifice", I was not stating an academic fact, but was giving my opinion on why I consider Jesus to be a real person and why I consider his sacrifice as the ultimate one based on my personal experiences and reading of the Bible.

Is the response emotional, subjective? Yes, because as a religious person, I consider this topic on a personal level. That's my perception which may be different from others. In India, there is a section of people who literally worship Mr. Babasaheb Ambedkar for what he has done to them. Other people may argue and debate about him, but for these people, his contribution to their personal lives matter the most and that's why they choose to revere him.

To give an example, I/We have made the statement that "My mom is the best" or "My Dad is a superhero". Obviously, this doesn't mean that other mothers and fathers are not good; neither does it mean that a child has done a thorough study of all other parents in the world and has come to this conclusion about his own parents. Such statements are based on personal experiences and cannot be rationally proved or if I put it, doesn't need to be proved.

According to me, Family and Religion are two topics which are personal to people and thus it needs two qualities that may not always be possible or may not be necessary to rationally explain or prove: Love and Faith.

11

What's worse, 2 week old getting nearly 100 rat bites and living, or Jesus' torture and death?

by FatFreek 2005 in

some 35 miles from here, in the small town of magnolia, ar, a teen couple is in trouble -- as they should be -- for allowing their 2 week old girl, a 5 pound baby, to suffer nearly 100 bites from rats.

one of the bites was so large and deep it required plastic surgery.

i don't want to even think about the horror this teeny creature felt during those instances -- and the horrible nightmares she may suffer in years to come.. i wonder if this is one of those human experiences that may be worse than what christ suffered on that stake.

Drearyweather

How does that work? Try explaining in a rational way without resorting to the apostle Paul contrivances.

I am a human being in captivity of death. The Bible says that Jesus gave his life as a ransom and that I will get everlasting life in God's kingdom if I believe in him and that I will be resurrected if i die before it comes. This thought makes me feel better and I choose to believe it. You can choose to believe otherwise if you want.

How did anyone benefit from that sacrifice?

I don't want to say how others have benefited. For me, Jesus life, his activities and his sacrifice have helped me to become a better person, give up bad habits and live a good life.

We get far greater benefit from many scientists who gave up many of their personal pleasures to give us many medical procedures

Yes, I appreciate what they have done. But I don't compare Jesus with scientists. Believing in Jesus does not mean that I automatically discredit what other great men have done. As I told, for me personally, Jesus was the ultimate, rest all come next. You can believe otherwise.

Jesus' death didn't improve humanity one iota.

Don't know about others. It did improve my life.

If anything, it delayed improvements to our lives for 2,000 years

I don't feel so.

11

What's worse, 2 week old getting nearly 100 rat bites and living, or Jesus' torture and death?

by FatFreek 2005 in

some 35 miles from here, in the small town of magnolia, ar, a teen couple is in trouble -- as they should be -- for allowing their 2 week old girl, a 5 pound baby, to suffer nearly 100 bites from rats.

one of the bites was so large and deep it required plastic surgery.

i don't want to even think about the horror this teeny creature felt during those instances -- and the horrible nightmares she may suffer in years to come.. i wonder if this is one of those human experiences that may be worse than what christ suffered on that stake.

Drearyweather

We've all been taught about the ultimate sacrifice that Jesus went through. Do you think that it was the ultimate?

There is a difference between 'Ultimate Sacrifice' and 'Ultimate Suffering'

The child who went through the sad experience can be classified as ultimate suffering, but not ultimate sacrifice.

Was Jesus death the ultimate suffering? No. There are people who went through much pain and suffering than what Jesus went through. But yes, Jesus' death was the ultimate sacrifice.

19

Reaction of Governing Body Belies More than their Accusation

by carefullyread in

a disfellowshiped brother wrote a letter of disquisition to the governing body of wbts a little while ago.

it was not in any way nasty, derogatory, rude, blasphemous, or with profanity but it was civil, truthful, & very informative that some have described as extremely truthful to enlightening, an ebullient disclosure.

i got to see some paraphrases extracted from it that have been circulating quietly or rather secretly passed around & i agree with the latter description.. the governing body was greatly perturbed, alarmed, to confused with this letter particularly as they became aware several of the congregation were also sent copies which some of the local congregational elders raised controversial questions about but mainly was dismissed by them without reading, to scoffing & ridicule but some also saw something more truthful to concern them.

Drearyweather

The GB declaration naming the disfellowshiped brother as “the worst apostate person they had yet encountered” was pronounced to the whole of the congregation at a Sunday morning meeting, & they stated it was the exact words of the GB & it was also relayed to at least four other congregations I know of in the surrounding region.

Was this 'GB declaration' through a letter? If yes, it would be interesting to see this letter. In fact, this would probably be the first time such a declaration was announced to four congregations, and that too during a Sunday meeting, and about a person who has already been disfellowshipped.