Posts by HereIam60

26

SDAs Campaigning in my Area

by NotFormer in

not even as active as the jws (whom i have not seen for around a year now), nevertheless i get an occasional leaflet or other publication in my letterbox that seems to be seventh day adventist in origin.. the booklet i received the other day was entitled "national sunday law".

i also had received this book years ago when i had some dealings with the sdas.. from reddit: "national sunday law involves a conspiracy theory which alleges that the united states government is on the verge of enacting a national blue law that would make sunday a day of rest and worship.

the theory depends on the idea that the pope is the antichrist and the mark of the beast is worshipped on sunday.

HereIam60

Blondie:

Thank you for the link. The years I was listening to Campings radio program were in the 1990s. His first predicted date for the end, which got much publicity was 9;6/1994. I recall people calling in with absolute trust in this and saying they coudn't wait. When it did not occur, he revised and adjusted the date 3 times into the next year. I was unaware, or had forgotten he was still at it in 2011. Apparently afterward he withdrew from comment and passed away in 2013

I think my question on 2 Timothy 3:6 was due to the fact that Witnesses very regularly use verses 1-5, regarding people's attitudes in the last days......lovers of money, not open to any agreement, fierce, etc..having a form of godliness but proving false to its power.but no reference is ever made to verse 6 stating that 'from these arise men who slyly work their way into househokds leading weak women as their captives..."

The blog writer touches on this verse, but while I'm sure Watchtower literature has commented on it at some point, it must have been long ago, and the average Wittness, is either unaware of, or must ignore this verse, and has no explanation to give if asked.

26

SDAs Campaigning in my Area

by NotFormer in

not even as active as the jws (whom i have not seen for around a year now), nevertheless i get an occasional leaflet or other publication in my letterbox that seems to be seventh day adventist in origin.. the booklet i received the other day was entitled "national sunday law".

i also had received this book years ago when i had some dealings with the sdas.. from reddit: "national sunday law involves a conspiracy theory which alleges that the united states government is on the verge of enacting a national blue law that would make sunday a day of rest and worship.

the theory depends on the idea that the pope is the antichrist and the mark of the beast is worshipped on sunday.

HereIam60

Some of the comments brought back other memories:

The free magazine that was found by newspaper stands was probably Herbert W. Armstrong's 'The Plain Truth"' (Worldwide Church of God).

...and I once spoke to Harold Camping on the phone. He did a radio call in show on Bible Questions and, for some reason I wanted to know what 2nd Timothy 3:6 was talking about. I could not follow his explanation at all, and he had such a droning, sonorous voice that it was almost hypnotic and I nearly dozed off! This was about a year after his first failed End of World prediction.

Another crazy I used to listen to was R. G. Stair. Today of course we have easier access to so much information. When these were just voices on the radio their conviction somehow seemed to give them more credibility..

26

SDAs Campaigning in my Area

by NotFormer in

not even as active as the jws (whom i have not seen for around a year now), nevertheless i get an occasional leaflet or other publication in my letterbox that seems to be seventh day adventist in origin.. the booklet i received the other day was entitled "national sunday law".

i also had received this book years ago when i had some dealings with the sdas.. from reddit: "national sunday law involves a conspiracy theory which alleges that the united states government is on the verge of enacting a national blue law that would make sunday a day of rest and worship.

the theory depends on the idea that the pope is the antichrist and the mark of the beast is worshipped on sunday.

HereIam60

This topic brought back a few memories:

One "recruitment tactic" once (possibly still) used by Seventh Day Adventists was related to a set of books for children published by them "The Bible Story" which related the Bible from Creation to Armageddon in story form. They were lavisly illustrated in color with many pictures similar to the Bilble and Paradise illustrations in Watchtower publications.

A sample volume was often placed in Doctor's Office Waiting Rooms, with postcards that people could send for more information. When I was about 7 years old my mother must have done this, as I came home from school to find her talking with a man who was apparently selling her the set. They must have sent out a local representative. I very dimly recall being briefly invited to join the conversation, and seeing a picture of a child in an armchair reading one of the books, with Jesus standing behind the chair looking on.

At that time I was attending a Methodist Sunday School, but when I came home would read in the books. It was mainly from these that I first got knowlege of the Bible. I learned the name 'Jehovah' from these as it was extensively used in the chapters about the prophet Elijah, because of the showdown between Jehovah and Baal.

They also offered a study the Bible by mail correspondence course which my mother took. Lessons were sent out, you were to look up the cited Scriptures and write answers to questions on the blanks provided. They were then mailed back, then sent back to you graded and with comments. My mother completed this but I don't recall her ever saying anything specific about it.. There was also a children's version that she signed me up for, but after a few lessons I got tired of it and stopped sending them back. I got a couple of (form) letters urging me to resume, asking what had happened and suggesting "...sometimes children are embarrased because they have misplaced the lessons.." In my case I was ignoring them and they stopped sending them.

My mom never committed to any one church, but always has been interested in learning about various religions.She never wanted an in-person study with Witnesses though. Much later she took a long correspondence course with a New Age group called Astara.

I must have taken after her because even as a Witness I've never stopped checking out other religious publications and broadcasts.

51

You Could Be Stuck in a University When Your Parent Dies. Convention Day 2 Video

by liam in

the governing body is going all out at this years convention.

they are still discouraging university education.

i guess the end must be real close .

HereIam60

NotFormer

I have no verification but based on what I've heard, in some rare cases people are "allowed" to leave their "assignments" to care for family needs and emergencies, but it is even more rare to be given any assistance, financial or otherwise to do so.

I have heard and seen recordings of talks given to Bethelites, asking them if it is Really Necessary to leave, if there are other family members, in the faith or not, whio can take on.the responsibility. They are encouraged to remain in the assignment at all costs. It is considered a "loving sacrifice" for family members to allow the Bethelite to remain there...

14

The Preachilng finally stops..............As soon as Armageddon Starts.

by liam in

watchtower august 2025: new teaching: the hailstone message intensifies during the great tribulation.

preaching continues after babylon the great falls, up to armageddon.

some may still respond.. larchington .

HereIam60

Can recall, probably late 1980s doing a long street of door-to-door work with a brother, not getting much response. As we walked along he said "Y'know, someday we're going to be coming back to these same houses and saying " Too bad guys, you had your chance!"

I was pretty shy, but appalled by this, I stopped walking and said, "Well, if we do, I don't think we'll say it like that..". He seemed genuinely surprised and asked how I thought we would do it. I said " I don't know, but the scriptures tell us to make a defense with a mild temper and deep respect, and I don't think "Ha Ha guys, it's too late" qualifies. He agreed and we went on. I could never see what purpose a hailstone judgement message would serve and it seemed at odds with the message of good news of peace, hope, love and salvation we were supposed to be carrying.

In those days though there was also much talk of "a warning work", " marking people for survival", and "seperating the sheep from the goats".

I've also read in some comments on forums how some Witnesses in service would say of a house they admired, that they would have, or take it after Armageddon. In my experience I never heard anyone say that. ( I always thought nothing would be left standing after Armageddon!), but sometimes if someone had a bad experience at the door of a large upscale, well kept house and grounds they might return to the car group and say resentfully " Well....They're having Their Paradise Now!!"

14

The Preachilng finally stops..............As soon as Armageddon Starts.

by liam in

watchtower august 2025: new teaching: the hailstone message intensifies during the great tribulation.

preaching continues after babylon the great falls, up to armageddon.

some may still respond.. larchington .

HereIam60

They have gone back and forth repeatedly over the years, trotting out this "judgement message" stuff, then letting it fade. In the late 80s, possibly after convention talks a number of people in our congregation were making statements such as "One day 'The Society" will announce that the preaching work is finished!" and "One day our message will change from one of Good News to one of Judgement!"

Then for years after there was a Public Talk Outline, (and sorry I don't know the title, but I heard the talk numerous times) which stated "The Preaching Work will Not stop..." and " Our message will Not change!"

I think this came up again each time we studied the 'Revelation - Its Grand Climax at Hand' book because of the prophecy about the great hailstones falling (Rev. 16:21)

More recently it came up again in regard to those Convention videos that came to be known as "The Bunker" videos, with a group of Witnesses hiding in a basement sharing experiences. One brother was said to have fallen away "when our message changed"...

There's no consistent view of anything....if there ever was....

5

New light on when the ministry will end

by JohnR1975 in

have you seen the new questions from readers about when the ministry will end?.

it's a new thought.. new light 🤣😭.

HereIam60

Again the scripture at Revelation 16:21 says the hailstones fall lfrom Heaven, suggesting (at least as I read it) that it is Jehovah's own action or judgement, rather than verbal messages delivered on earth..?

14

The Preachilng finally stops..............As soon as Armageddon Starts.

by liam in

watchtower august 2025: new teaching: the hailstone message intensifies during the great tribulation.

preaching continues after babylon the great falls, up to armageddon.

some may still respond.. larchington .

HereIam60

...So there is an end...and a "final" end...and Revelation 16:21 clearly says the hailstones fall from Heaven, or in some translations "the sky", wouldn't this suggest an action of God himself rather than a human endeavor?

51

You Could Be Stuck in a University When Your Parent Dies. Convention Day 2 Video

by liam in

the governing body is going all out at this years convention.

they are still discouraging university education.

i guess the end must be real close .

HereIam60

slimboyfat,

"...a pivot that downgrades end-time expectations..."

That's a dilemma they have created themselves. It was much easier to accept some things Watchtower taught and said when it was believed that the end would be quickly upon us, or as was often said "imminent".

In recent years a very mixed message is presented. We're urged to maintain the sense of Urgency to act before it is " too late", yet as time continues to pass, and leadership makes long -range building and expansion plans, the mind-set being promoted is "Be prepared....but if the end has not come yet...or when we expected...it does not matter...we must go on as we have been doing.."

They've revived the old saying "We must not serve with a date in mind...". Recent video dramatizations have depicted witnesses who were 'stumbled' because their expectations were not fufilled (veiled reference to 1975 era), and their questions are seen as being discouraging, a bad example, and " spiritually weak".

A study article " Enjoy a Hope Without Disappointment" in the December 2023 Watchtower featured a picture of F. W. Franz.. (first reference to him in numerous years)..and the text attributed a 1991 quote to him "...[We] have not lost our sense of the value of that hope...We are appreciating it all the more the longer we have to wait for it. It is something worth waiting for, even if it required a million years..."

Possibly one, of many, reasons for Anthony Morris III's departure, could have been the talk he gave referencing past expectations. He related how during the 1970s, he said possibly '75, after a gathering at which some older ones told his sons they probably would not finish school before the end of this system of things, on the way home his boys questioned him about it. He said (I'm paraphrasing to the best of my recall..) " Boys, you've got to keep on the watch... This thing could go on until 2020!" ...then to his audience "Honest!". He then went on to chastise.." Some of you older ones who said such things....You didn't do anyone any favors! But Jehovah still loves you...!" Certainly this was frank and open, but that a Governing Body member would admit he had doubts about the prevailing opinions of the time must have disturbed some of the others...

12

Letter of Disassociation to Former Religions / Baptism Questions ?

by HereIam60 in

this was prompted by some comments in another thread, but since it was somewhat "off" the original topic, i'm posting/asking seperately.... i was born in 1960, and baptized as a infant in a catholic church.

obviously i have no personal memory of this, and only know, because i was told, and we had a family photo of my parents holding me before the baptismal font while the priest prepared to do the sprinkling.

i was taken probably no more than 3 times to the catholic church in my early childhood and had no clue as to what was going on.. from the ages of 10 to 12 i attended a methodist sunday school, rarely the actual church service, but sang with the class in an annual christmas presentation in the church.. in the 1980s, studying with jehovah's witnesses, and considering baptism, i was told i had to write a letter to any religious group i had previously been involved with, stating i no longer wished any contact, wanted to be removed from their membership lists and witnessing as to why...(separation from satan's world, false religion, babylon etc.).

HereIam60

Dear Blondie,

Thank you for responding, and referencing the 1956 and 1989 Watchtower articles. It is appreciated. I see that by '89 the part about 'in association with the spirit directed organization" had been added. I will continue to research as I'm sure I've seen somewhere online a timeline of how the day of baptism questions changed over the years.

I never believed I was baptized into any 'Organization'. In fact from the very beginning the overuse of that word by some Witnesses grated on me. It seemed 'worldly' and opposed to what I was being taught, as the world we were supposed to be no part of, was filled with organizations.

The United Natiions Organization was said to be "a counterfeit of God's Kingdom", and " The Disgusting Thing that causes Desolation, prophesied by Daniel". The World Health Organization, and North Atlantic Treaty Organization were man-made attempts to solve problems that left God out of the picture and could not succeed. Also, in my background "The Organization" also referred to The Mafia!

The only way I could accept it at all was to re-define it in my own mind. That 'Jehovah's Organization' was His Arrangement of things on Heaven and Earth, but solely His, in his physical creation, and spiritually. It had nothing to do with any group or corporation of humans. Perhaps that was the original intent of the term.

I can understand how an adult, baptized in one religious group by conscious choice, upon deciding to change affiliations, might need to be baptized again in their new faith group, but since Watchtower teaching is that infant baptism is unscriptural and invalid, and an infant has no choice or understanding of the matter, I still cannot see why a letter of disassociation to the church where it was done is necessary.

Maybe this is no longer required, and in any event in my case is water that long ago went under the bridge. I'm just trying to sort out some thoughts that have long been in the back of my mind.