Posts by Celestial

53

Why did you become one of Jehovah's Witnesses?

by Celestial in

any other reason than the arbitrary explanation that you were brainwashed or seduced by a millenarianist doomsday cult?.

Celestial

Any other reason than the arbitrary explanation that you were brainwashed or seduced by a millenarianist doomsday cult?

42

Give Some Logical Points To Prove That JWs Do Not Have The Truth

by minimus in

jw
friends

the one thing that got to me was that this religion is illogical.

their "logic" is ridiculous, especially when it comes to their blood doctrine.

downright weird!.

Scientific truth consists of the natural world of physical objects and bodies governed by causal laws, the world we perceive with our senses and can study by rational methods.

Most major religions (including Jehovah's Witnesses) believe in the existence of a supernatural realm, a realm beyond the natural world. The notion of the supernatural isn't incompatible with the objectivity and regularity of nature as identified by reason and scientific logic. But to some extent, there is no credible evidence of miracles, magic, or other supernatural phenomena in nature.

The religion of Jehovah's Witnesses rests on the premise that the Bible is supernatural phenomena, the inspired word of God, a miracle.

This draws into question what you experienced as one of Jehovah's Witnesses. Was it all just what was on printed page or was there something else to the religion.

100

Latest Watchtower page 30... They have some nerve to put this!

by TimothyT in

one thing that i have always noticed even when i was a jw is that the jw org has lots and lots and lots of rules for allsorts of stupid petty rules which make no difference.

when you read the bible you see how they are clearly in the wrong here and are acting like the pharisees themselves, who imposed so much pressure on others to conform to the law.

am i missing something here!?!?

Celestial

Eggnog, you are without a doubt, one of the sorriest, most pathetic excuses for either a 'christian', a debator, or even a human being that I've had the misfortune of coming across. Your willfull ignorance, your attempted sleight-of-hand when it comes to the embarassing and non-scriptural doctrines, and your misplaced loyalty to a cult that wouldn't hesitate to kick your ass to the curb if they knew you were on this site, is a great demonstration to what mind-control can do to a person. You're not fooling anyone on this site, with the sole exception of yourself.

Mary, the Peoples Temple cult headed off by Jim Jones which is best known for the November 18, 1978 mass suicide of 913 Temple members can conveniently be attributed to mind-control. This is not the case with Jehovah’s Witnesses, especially if they happened to be in your family. In retrospective, my existence as one of Jehovah's Witness wasn't that of a brainwashed robot.

If someone knew or had a family member that died do to the blood policy and would characterize them as controlled by a cult, I will not contest their opinion. I'll just say that this opinion isn't coherent with my self-image or those in my social environment.

90

More anti-apostate rhetoric from the Watchtower - are they running scared?

by cedars in

yes, the may 15th watchtower is now available for download from jw.org.. the final study article, on page 26, directs another salvo at apostates - and warns witnesses not to try arguing with them on the internet:.

indeed, we ought to move as far away from wrongdoing as possible and not see how close we can get to it without being overcome by sin.

for instance, we need to guard against succumbing to apostasy, a sin that would make us unfit to glorify god.

Celestial

Huh? I am saying they don't live up to their own statements about being open to an examination when it comes to their own religion.

A religion is a specific set of beliefs and practices agreed upon by a number of persons. This set of beliefs in the context of Christianity can always conform to “God's Word,” the literary text that defines the ecclesiastical standard of morality in the Christian world. JWs are open to an examination of their religion from the perspective of Christendom, deism and secularism (atheism). JWs are also open to the examination of eastern religions (e.g. Buddhism, Hinduism) although they are bizarre in contrast with the physical laws of nature.

90

More anti-apostate rhetoric from the Watchtower - are they running scared?

by cedars in

yes, the may 15th watchtower is now available for download from jw.org.. the final study article, on page 26, directs another salvo at apostates - and warns witnesses not to try arguing with them on the internet:.

indeed, we ought to move as far away from wrongdoing as possible and not see how close we can get to it without being overcome by sin.

for instance, we need to guard against succumbing to apostasy, a sin that would make us unfit to glorify god.

Celestial

Yeah they don't seem as confident to come out with statements like this any more.

How should you feel if proof is given that what you believe is wrong? For example, say that you were in a car, travelling for the first time to a certain place. You have a road map, but you have not taken the time to check it carefully. Someone has told you the road to take. You trust him, sincerely, believing that the way he has directed you is correct. But suppose it is not. What if someone points out the error? What if he, by referring to your own map, shows that you are on the wrong road? Would pride or stubbornness prevent you from admitting that you are on the wrong road? Well, then, if you learn from an examination of your Bible that you are travelling a wrong religious road, be willing to change. Avoid the broad road to destruction; get on the narrow road to life! You Can Live Forever in Paradise on Earth pages 32 and 33.

Are you saying you would be willing to change upon a thorough examination of the Bible?

71

Letter to the Writing Department from Barbara Anderson

by Dogpatch in

jw
friends

i thought i knew you.

an open letter from barbara anderson to watch towers writing department.

in 1517, martin luther wrote in a letter to archbishop albert of mainz: you must graciously forgive that i, that scum of the earth, am so bold as to dare to address a letter to you.. yes, i know, you think of me as scum, just like mainz believed of luther, wondering how i dare write you a letter, someone jehovahs witnesses disfellowshipped back in 2002. i was accused of being an unrepentant sinner and condemned for causing divisions, then labeled apostate because i spoke out publicly on nbcs dateline tv program aboutthe child sexual abuse policies that protected pedophiles policies that you helped formulate.

Celestial

There's two definitions of an apostate.

The dictionary's (secular) definition:

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/apostate

1. a person who abandons his religion, party, cause, etc

There's the Bible's definition:

rs p. 36 par. 6 - p. 37 par. 2 Apostasy

2 Pet. 2:1: “These very ones will quietly bring in destructive sects and will disown even the owner that bought them, bringing speedy destruction upon themselves.”

Job 13:16: “Before him [God] no apostate will come in.”

Heb. 6:4-6: “It is impossible as regards those who have once for all been enlightened, and who have tasted the heavenly free gift, and who have become partakers of holy spirit, and who have tasted the fine word of God and powers of the coming system of things, but who have fallen away [“if they then commit apostasy,” Revised Standard Version], to revive them again to repentance, because they impale the Son of God afresh for themselves and expose him to public shame.”

I may not be in good standing in the Christian congregation, but I don't think I'm beyond repentance. Those with their spirituality intact are primarily concerned with those with some potential for repentance.

Those beyond repentance seem to be intent on criminalizing, not just criticizing Jehovah's Witnesses. They'll even draw from the Bible's explanation of wickedness to incriminate Jehovah's Witnesses. Much of what is said doesn't make any sense. Back in 1997, the Watchtower society shed some light on their policy regarding child abuse.

w97 1/1 p. 29 Let Us Abhor What Is Wicked

Depending on the law of the land where he lives, the molester may well have to serve a prison term or face other sanctions from the State. The congregation will not protect him from this. Moreover, the man has revealed a serious weakness that henceforth will have to be taken into account. If he seems to be repentant, he will be encouraged to make spiritual progress, share in the field service, even have parts in the Theocratic Ministry School and nonteaching parts in the Service Meeting. This does not mean, though, that he will qualify to serve in a position of responsibility in the congregation.

The only thing that can be done with an unrepentant person where the law of the land doesn't incarcerate serial pedophiles is to protect the congregation by excommunicating the person.

A common sense approach to the societal problem of child abuse was implemented in Jehovah's Organization and disseminated to congregations throughout the world. Corrective action should obviously be taken if there's any deviation to the public policy. The most serious violation would be if a member of the governing body issued a decree for the protection of a pedophile. A letter written in 1985, when the then Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger was the head of the Vatican's doctrinal unit, resists a request for the defrocking of an American priest with a record of molesting children, for the "good of the universal Church." For whatever reason, the overall membership of the Catholic church doesn't call for the resignation of his position as the pope.

Barbra Anderson didn't just criticize the writing department on MSNBC-Dateline in 2002 as she alleged in her letter, she assaulted the public policy enforced by the overall membership of Jehovah's Witnesses (“sexual abuse policies that protected pedophiles— policies that you helped formulate”) and thus assaulted individuals that implemented instruction from the governing body using twisted logic and outright lies. She then condemns the disfellowshipping arrangement even though it serves as a protective agent to the Christian congregation against pedophiles and those that bring in destructive sects. This is why she was disfellowshipped. Her dissent from Jehovah's organization was likely the result of some sort of power struggle initiated by her with staff members at Bethel headquarters. A power struggle she still seems to be waging with the administrative position of Jehovah's organization at the expense of her family. Her grandchildren will much more likely be repelled by her travesty on MSNBC-Dateline than anything stated in the Watchtower. Barbra Anderson's son or daughter is obviously one of Jehovah's Witnesses that will explain the truth to her grandchildren.

23

Ex-Jehovah's Witnesses and the irreversible decision

by Celestial in

some business opportunities unfolded sometime back that required my full attention and excessive work hours that ended up putting a strain on me.

i started taking the edge off by drinking alcohol, too much alcohol.

the cycle of working and drinking ended up destroying my spirituality and i eventually completely quit attending meetings and every other aspect of kingdom service.

Celestial

Some business opportunities unfolded sometime back that required my full attention and excessive work hours that ended up putting a strain on me. I started taking the edge off by drinking alcohol, too much alcohol. The cycle of working and drinking ended up destroying my spirituality and I eventually completely quit attending meetings and every other aspect of Kingdom service.

But pay attention to yourselves that your hearts never become weighed down with overeating and heavy drinking and anxieties of life, and suddenly that day be instantly upon you as a snare. Luke 21:34-35

The business prospects have successfully resolved themselves and don't demand too much of my time but I haven't stopped drinking too much alcohol.

I've attempted to rebuild my spirituality five times to date and ended up relapsing after a couple of weeks into an evening of entertainment and drinking.

I've always been intrigued by entertainment and music that's dark, violent and disturbing. A couple of movies that preoccupied and stood out in my mind as brilliant works of cinematic art were Natural Born Killers and Requiem for a Dream. That's part of my problem.

Even as one of Jehovah's Witnesses, I've occasionally reverted back to music I was drawn to in my rebellious teenager years that went as far as to glorify drug abuse, graphic violence and even satanism. This type of entertainment is actually quite popular in contemporary society and appeals to the imperfect flesh.

I often sign on to this forum while indulging in other forms of entertainment on my computer. So far, I perceive information disseminated by the “evil slave class” as intriguing, but it seems that those that were once Jehovah's Witnesses on this forum have made an irreversible decision about avoiding their prior faith and have constituted themselves as an enemy to Jehovah's Witnesses. Why is this? Some ex-JWs have been members of this forum for over ten years and continue to read and analyze information published by Jehovah's Witnesses like some sort of obsession. Why don't you broaden your horizons toward the overall paradigm of religion and belief?

I have a few people on my Facebook page that aren’t Jehovah's Witnesses anymore, but they don't actively oppose JWs on the internet (not to my knowledge anyway).

56

"You will be objects of hatred "a reasonable understanding

by luap in

indeed thats just what witnesses are.

everyone hates them.

is there any other group in "christendom "that are hated as much as these.?

Celestial

Celetial, will you please explain what "there isn't a socially accepted interpretation of God's Word" means?

Cantleave pretty much explained some.

Disfellowshipping – not accepted

A person may decide to cut someone off for one reason or another, but it's not socially accepted as a religious formality.

Blood policy – not accepted

A person may choose a safer alternative than blood, but the policy is not socially accepted in the context of religion.

The scriptures that are the basis for these policies aren't left to interpretation. They say what they say.

There are ways in which conservative Christian groups have used and sometimes exploited scripture to deny human rights to gays and lesbians. This isn't socially acceptable to the LGBT community.

56

"You will be objects of hatred "a reasonable understanding

by luap in

indeed thats just what witnesses are.

everyone hates them.

is there any other group in "christendom "that are hated as much as these.?

Celestial

"Witnesses are generally accepted not hated, despite their extreme fundamentalist interpretation of the bible. The only "hate" I have ever come across, is when someone dies, especially a child, due to the stupid blood policy and when families are destroyed by the ridiculous "disfellowshipping" policy."

Jehovah's Witnesses are accepted based on how they personally interact in their immediate social environmental like any other person. Meaning, if they build trust based on good works toward their neighbor, this supersedes the accusations of others.

Do JWs accept the Bible, “God's Word,” based on a socially “accepted” interpretation? No. Because there isn't one. So, it gets back to how a person interacts in their immediate social environment, like how I interact with my parents. I can see through the differences presented on this forum that “should” interfere with my relationship with my parents. Your assertions don't interfere, nor will they interfere.

56

"You will be objects of hatred "a reasonable understanding

by luap in

indeed thats just what witnesses are.

everyone hates them.

is there any other group in "christendom "that are hated as much as these.?

Celestial

"By the way, Morbid Tales is one good album, CF has always been my favorite band except during the wts years. Take care."

I was introduced to the big 4 thrash metal artists (Metallica, Slayer, Megadeth, and Anthrax) of the 1980's in 1988. I will say that Christ Illusion is more atheistic than Slayer's satanic origins (e.g. Hell Awaits, Reign in Blood).

I've kept up from time to time, although the only recent music I was able to get into from the big 4 in the 1990's or 2000 was “Jihad” off Slayer's Christ Illusion album.

Reign in Blood is considered to be the foundation and inspiration of death metal and conveyed a sacramental insight into one of the dark sides of religion like no other album. However, a lot of the death metal bands that followed suit simply didn't appeal to me (e.g. Obituary, Deicide, Napalm Death).

In a general sense, thrash and death metal has always followed me as an inseparable part of my makeup.