Posts by Madge

90

More anti-apostate rhetoric from the Watchtower - are they running scared?

by cedars in

yes, the may 15th watchtower is now available for download from jw.org.. the final study article, on page 26, directs another salvo at apostates - and warns witnesses not to try arguing with them on the internet:.

indeed, we ought to move as far away from wrongdoing as possible and not see how close we can get to it without being overcome by sin.

for instance, we need to guard against succumbing to apostasy, a sin that would make us unfit to glorify god.

Madge

27

I need some advice folks!

by DonutZ! in

a few months back my then-gf (now wife) cheated on me with a coworker.

ever since then i have hated going to work because i have to see his damn face all the time.

i try to ignore him and not let the thought of "him and my wife together" get in my head.

Madge

DonutZ! I sent you a PM

27

I need some advice folks!

by DonutZ! in

a few months back my then-gf (now wife) cheated on me with a coworker.

ever since then i have hated going to work because i have to see his damn face all the time.

i try to ignore him and not let the thought of "him and my wife together" get in my head.

Madge

It sounds to me that your wife is insecure. Either about her relationship and marriage with you, or about herself. Generally, I have found then if I am off seeking another mans attention it has little to do with sex, and alot to do with all the nice things and attention I would receive. When you are with someone for awhile, we tend to start taking those things for granted. Does she or has she ever had self esteem issues? If so, I would suggest counseling, because if she is and seeking another mans attention is a way of reassuring herself, you are going to be in for a long ride and serious hurt. Being in a relationship is literally caring about the other persons feelings more then your own, but remember this goes both ways. When both people do this, the effects are amazing. Unfortunately, most people cant see past their own wants, and put themselves first (I have been guilty of this myself).

Because it was really long and romantic texts that you found, in my opinion, it isnt about sex. Its about intimacy. She may have unresolved issues from past relationships, or she may enjoy the effects it has on you when you find these sorts of messages because your reaction (as messed up as this may be) is reassurace that you actually care about her. I would strongly suggest counseling, if for no other reason then to get to get to the bottom of her reasoning.

37

What are the most frustrating subjects to talk about with a JW...

by Tuesday in

jw
friends

i was just wondering what everyone here found the most frustrating to talk to jws about, list as many as you feel..

Madge

You know what frustrated me the most was the time I asked a JW about what happened to all the people before the Watchtower existed. Since they did not have an organization to direct them, they certainly couldnt have been in "the truth" according to WT theology.

He paused unsure how to answer me... and then told me "He would have to ask someone for the correct answer on that."

He got back to me a week or so later.

AND THE ANSWER WAS..... (dun da da dunnn...) THEY WERE NOT DESTROYED BECAUSE THEY DIDN'T KNOW ANY BETTER.

It was such a stupid answer that I started laughing outloud! Are you kidding me?!

20

Judge rules child can attend kingdom hall and church.

by koolaid-man in

jw
friends

the pressure on children growing up with jehovah's witness connections can make their childhood extremely difficult.. .

http://www.familylawweek.co.uk/site.aspx?i=ed95530children: private law update (february 2012)alex verdan qc reviews the most significant of the latest judgments in private law children applications.. .

alex verdan qc, 4 paper buildings.

Madge

Yknot,

To be honest, when I found out he was a witness I didnt think it was a big deal. I should have realized it was considering he didnt tell me right away (why hide it if its insignificant?), but at the time, I was already head over heels for him. I saw the side of him that was downtown at the bars having a good time every night. If it was a big deal, that would be on him to know better. They are afterall, HIS rules. How would I know his boundaries if he didnt say them? I went to his house often, I never saw a Watchtower or Awake magazine ANYWHERE. After I found out we kept dating. But, when I found out I was pregnant it all changed. Suddenly he wanted to play by his rules. He disappeared, and then would resurface for a week, lie again and again, still trying to maintain that "it wasnt a big deal" then he would disappear again. Then he told me that our child would be a witness and "there was nothing I could do about it." Then I started researching the beliefs, and thats when I started to fully understand his boundaries. He ended up disfellowshipped racked with guilt and assumed that I should comply with all of the necessary demands. At first I thought we could work it out, but he only wanted things by his rules now to preserve his "good boy" image, and thats just selfish. Just because he didnt play by his own rules didnt mean I had to sacrifice my childs ability to participate in sports or seek a higher education so he can look "good" and please a bunch of men. I was disgusted with the selfishness, and the total narcissism that he and his family and organization displayed. The whole organization lost my respect after I watched the three ring circus of him trying to win their approval back. It was about a joke. They treated him like a child, and he let them. Thats when I knew that I had to protect my daughter at all costs.

20

Judge rules child can attend kingdom hall and church.

by koolaid-man in

jw
friends

the pressure on children growing up with jehovah's witness connections can make their childhood extremely difficult.. .

http://www.familylawweek.co.uk/site.aspx?i=ed95530children: private law update (february 2012)alex verdan qc reviews the most significant of the latest judgments in private law children applications.. .

alex verdan qc, 4 paper buildings.

Madge

Congratulations on making your marriage last!! I find too often the divide placed on the Watchtower and "worldy" relationships creates great strain on a relationship, it is elightening to hear some can overcome that!

Most JWs arent as loyal as the profess publically, I absolutely agree with you! And, her sleeping with a worldy man is very much proof that the mother in this instance was not as loyal as she publically proclaimed to be. I would like to mention here that I dated a JW man for 3 years, and he did not tell me he was a Witness at all until 6 months into our relationship. Frankly, not being raised in or around the beliefs of the Witnesses, I had no idea what that really meant. To say that the only way he didnt know was because he was trying to get into her pants is ridiculous! Maybe HE ACTUALLY LOVED HER! And, maybe he believed her when she said things like "its not a big deal"which seems to be the chorus line most JW's hum into the unknowing ears for most JW/non-JW relationships. But, IT IS a big deal, and every witness denies it, but knows it! To me, it was nothing more then a belief system. Plain and simple. But, its not just a belief system. It is a control mechanism. I didnt know that then. But HE DID. Just as much as she did. And, I'm sure the father in this instance probaby rationalized with "Well, if it was a big deal, she wouldnt be with me." Naive? Yes. I thought that line a million times myself! I truly wanted to believe him when he said it wasn't!

It would just seem to me that their is no middle ground with the Watchtower. Its hot or cold. In or out. As a parent you cant have your cake and eat it to and sacrifice the best interest of your child/children to spare the public admittance that you arent actually loyal to the organization. His belief system doesnt teach that the childs mother is going to be annihilated at Armageddon. Hers does. Which one is more damaging to the parent/child relationship? Which belief system operates heavily on guilt and coercion? All these things, damaging to a childs young mind. Scarring really. And, most likely the child wont be a JW when he/she grows up. So why put them through the confusing mess and emotional trauma of it in the first place? I do agree that it was a boneheaded move of him to take it to court provided I believe you are exactly right that she will go all uber back into it from the pressure. I agree with you that it is better to talk about what you believe /dont believe with the children involved, however, the Watchtower is so aggressive in its teachings, that the consequences may scare the children involved to admit any doubt. I do praise him for standing up for being concerned enough about his rights as a father to take it to a courtroom.

I whole heartedly agree with communication being key. I could see where the father feels threatened, frustrated, and angry, going through all those emotions myself. It will be important that the father never ever bashes her belief system. (I have had to bite my tongue a few times). But, like you said, you must be the calm that they can trust, and I do believe that as well. I did not take my situation into a court room, however, he has agreed to leave it out of her life, and so far, he has. I respect him very much for that. In the future, I hope it doesnt take duking it out in a courtroom. But, I would certainly stand up and fight if ever I needed too.

20

Judge rules child can attend kingdom hall and church.

by koolaid-man in

jw
friends

the pressure on children growing up with jehovah's witness connections can make their childhood extremely difficult.. .

http://www.familylawweek.co.uk/site.aspx?i=ed95530children: private law update (february 2012)alex verdan qc reviews the most significant of the latest judgments in private law children applications.. .

alex verdan qc, 4 paper buildings.

Madge

Ynot,

You are absolutely right... he did sleep with her knowing she was a JW. I guess, much like me, he was probably told it "was no big deal." And, you are right also in saying "things didnt work out." How could they?

I guess I should just settle for the fact that "life aint always fair and easy" for my kid, and resign myself to move-along and get over it. No, I think instead he did take responsibility by taking this matter to court. Kudos to him...

20

Judge rules child can attend kingdom hall and church.

by koolaid-man in

jw
friends

the pressure on children growing up with jehovah's witness connections can make their childhood extremely difficult.. .

http://www.familylawweek.co.uk/site.aspx?i=ed95530children: private law update (february 2012)alex verdan qc reviews the most significant of the latest judgments in private law children applications.. .

alex verdan qc, 4 paper buildings.

Madge

Okay, so the JW mother cannot stop the child from after school activities or sports or field trips. However, being allowed to attend the Kingdom Hall will instill this in the child anyway, maybe not directly, but most definitely indirectly. So, the child is going to wrestle guilt in these sorts of things knowing that it would disappoint their mother and possibly withhold from participating anyway. No, the judge in this case should have realized that for the relationship of the father and child to function, the child cannot and should not be exposed to a teaching that alienates him as a father. There is no doubt the child is going to struggle with this at some point.

92

Pre-emptive shunning - a growing reality

by cedars in

i'm scanning through some of the results from the 2012 jw survey as they're coming in.. the most populous of the six voting categories with 76 voters so far is my own category, for those who are inactive, or "faded/fading" (not disfellowshipped or da'd, but no longer reporting time on the ministry).. one statistic already leaping out at me surrounds the question "do you experience 'pre-emptive shunning' from active witnesses, who view you as 'bad association'?

" of the 74 who voted on this so far, 76% have answered "yes" to this question.. it's early days, and obviously i will have a clearer picture of the extent of the problem once the survey closes at the end of the year.

however, the results already in suggest that pre-emptive shunning is widespread among inactive ones, despite this not being an "official" policy of the society.. i was interested in your opinions as to why this may be?

Madge

I do have one question,

What is the difference between "fading" and "disassociating? From what i am gathering fading from the organization allows them to be in contact with family and friends and disassociating is much like a disfellowshipping, and everyone avoids that person at all costs. Is this correct?

39

My really long introduction...

by Madge in

jw
friends

okay, so i am new to the site, but i have been following ur threads for awhile now, and i am finding great comfort in them!

no, i am not a witness and i have never been, and never will be!

i did however, date a witness for about three years.. it was our typical 357th biweekly 'man hating' girls night out, and meeting mr. right was the last thing on my mind!

Madge

I assume at some point his family and such will try to do tell her that holidays are wrong and I am going to be annihilated. I have decided though that every year for her birthday we are going to have the biggest awesomest party for her, and guess who WONT be attending. Or at least if he does he will be the outcast. She will notice. Kids are very observant. Christmas time is now the time that I have decided that we will donate to charities, and volunteer for good causes. He does not partake in things like that at all. And how can he say Christmas is bad, if she sees how GOOD it is. She will notice. And, he will feel small.

He is a good dad to her. He loves her very much no doubt. I dont want to take that away from him, he is her daddy. But, at the same time if his idea of "training her up right" is to rob her of her free will, it is my job as her mother to protect her at all costs. And, I will. At first I was terrified of them, but watching how much the society cowers and works in passive aggressive ways and manipulates people doesnt scare me anymore. For one, I figured out how they work, and for two, I am not passive aggressive. I am confrontational, but rational. They dont have anything I want, so therefore I dont care if I have their approval. It doesnt mean spit to me.

I would also like to mention that about a month and a half after his mothers passing, the elders (after careful consideration) decided to let him back. I found some of the letters he wrote the congregation for his reinstatement, and all I can say is WOW. "I know you BROTHERS ARE BUSY, But if you could find it in YOUR HEARTS to forgive me..." Heavy stuff. I should also mention that after he was reinstated, we did continue dating. I kept my emotional distance this time, and was trying to feel him out and help him by planting seeds. After awhile though, I realized it is really up to him what he wants to do with the information. All I can do is be there for him.