I don't completely believe in dream interpretation. However, some dreams, like repetitive ones, or bizarre dreams, may definitely have a meaning for you personally. Your dream seems to capture what many feel on this forum. Namely, that this religion has changed so much and has become so bizarre, that it is unattractive to most people. And of course, the fact that the assembly hall was basically empty, shows just how depressing it has really become. In fact, your dream sounds scary. I had nightmares after discovering TTATT. In my dream, Russell's pyramid was being erected by Rutherford. The pyramid was in two pieces. In my dream, Rutherford was topping off the top of the pyramid with the all seeing eye. This would be repeated several times. The dream had the grain of an old film. I would wake up scared and sweating. Why? It was because I now discovered just how dark and frightening of an organization I was in. An organization that I loved and supported all my life. It was like the moonies. I will never walk into a KH again. For me, that dream has meaning. I am literally scared to death of a KH.
theliberator
JoinedPosts by theliberator
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12
I had a bizarre dream the other night
by Freeandclear inquick recap.
i'm 44, been df'd about a 10 months.
got baptized when i was 18, in and out of the borg for years due to guilt.
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58
Mind Body Dualism
by Coded Logic ini've never found dualism - the idea that the mind and the brain are two different substances with the mind being "immaterial" or "non-material" - a valid manner in which to address consciousness or any mysteries relating to it.
to show the reasons why i think it's bad metaphysics i'll use analogous reasoning to make a case for my newly made up "mystic essence".. for hundreds of years scientists have studied plants and animals all across the world.
but they still can't explain where ecosystems come from.
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theliberator
I actually love this topic. It has been argued for thousands of years. Why? Because no matter how you slice it, we will never know how consciousness exists. Oh we may say it originates here or there. But how? We will never know. But one thing is for sure, you can talk about the "mind" simply being a product of chemical reactions till the cows come home ( and you are correct), but no matter what comes out of your mouth on this forum, your HEART tells you that you are greater than the sum of the parts. You can deny that all you want, but you (plural) are full of crap. Speaking of heart, has it occurred to you that it is only in recent years that scientists are beginning to see that the heart is more than just a pump? It is known as the "little brain". The heart's reaction, was once viewed as the byproduct of the brains thoughts or feelings. But now, that may be changing. Scientists are only beginning to learn about this. In otherwords, the issue is far more complex than imagined. Here is for starters: http://www.mindfulmuscle.com/heart-has-consciousness-knows-before-brain/
What can I say? Hmmm.... Well my heart says...
"I will give thanks to you, for I am fearfully and wonderfully made. Your works are wonderful. My soul knows that very well." - Psalm: 139:14
And your SOUL knows that as well.
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Mind Body Dualism
by Coded Logic ini've never found dualism - the idea that the mind and the brain are two different substances with the mind being "immaterial" or "non-material" - a valid manner in which to address consciousness or any mysteries relating to it.
to show the reasons why i think it's bad metaphysics i'll use analogous reasoning to make a case for my newly made up "mystic essence".. for hundreds of years scientists have studied plants and animals all across the world.
but they still can't explain where ecosystems come from.
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theliberator
"Science cannot solve the ultimate mystery of nature. And that is because, in the last analysis, we ourselves are a part of the mystery that we are trying to solve." -Max Planck -
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What Is The Watchtower's Biggest Problem?
by minimus inthe organization has many problems.
certain doctrines are problematic.
the men who run the organizaion have issues.
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theliberator
The foundation: 1914/ Generation -
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Richard Dawkins has had a Stroke
by cofty inhe is back home and making god progress.. he has issued an audio statement here....
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theliberator
slimboyfat: "What if God used the stroke to switch on the dormant part of Dawkins' brain that puts him in touch with God?"
This is not too far from reality. While I don't believe God does it, I have seen people change .for two reasons. First, some become very emotional. They change from being a "thinker" to a "thinker feeler". They now see their life and the world quite differently. Or second, they realize how precious life is, and how they need to be grateful to the one who gave it. They see the brain as greater than the sum of it's parts.
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75
Evolution and Atheism - please help
by Fernando innot being familiar with either, my question is:.
what is the relationship between evolution and atheism?.
i'd love to hear from anyone and everyone, and also from any perspective.. without limiting the conversation in any way, i would of course also appreciate comments that are simple, clear, direct and correct (as i don't have the capacity to do a phd in evolution or atheism)..
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theliberator
"They promise them freedom, but they themselves are slaves of corruption. For whatever overcomes a person, to that he is enslaved." - 2 Peter 2:19 ESV
"Freethinkers" do not exist.
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The Forgotten Ones
by ToesUp injust curious...is anyone hearing the older/infirm ones speaking out to others on how they are being treated in the congregation?
without giving anything away, i have spoken to so many older ones (some are sickly or can't drive in the evening or can't drive at all) who can't make it to all the meetings, assemblies, etc., that are complaining on how they are being treated by the more righteous ones in the hall.
the ones i have spoken to make the comment that it seems to be the younger elders that have less empathy and concern for these ones.
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theliberator
In all the decades of being a Witness and an elder, I don't believe love was the real driving force. Mowing lawns or helping in other ways was always scheduled. Elders would find those without privileges or lowly ministerial servants, but mostly oddballs, to do the "dirty" work. JW's loved going to help with Katrina, not because of love, but it is what they are programmed to do and they want recognition. Much like service, which was not about love for neighbor for the majority. I believe that I was typical. I just wanted to get this caring thing out of the way. I did my duty, and no one can say I didn't care. True love is in reality very rare. Even if older ones are taking care of physically, the love shown is often fake. You would hear of a brother saying from the platform how much we appreciate our older ones and brother or sister so and so, but in reality nobody really wanted to spend a lot of time with those older ones who had very little in common with you as a younger person. The conversations with older ones was shallow at best.
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What is the alternative to JW?
by Formerbrother ini mean this with all due respect, i would like to hear from genuine people who think jw have it wrong and then what is the truth?.
im not talking about silly little quibbles here and there.. is jehovah real?
the the bible is word?
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theliberator
Part of keeping people captive to this evil machine, was telling us that they were the only ones who taught God's name, the kingdom, God's purpose for the earth, etc. Note this quote: "We also love the organization that Jehovah uses to teach us wonderful truths. It was Jehovah’s organization that taught us about Jehovah’s name and what it means, his purpose for the earth, what happens to us when we die, and the hope of the resurrection. Do you remember how happy you were when you first learned these and other truths? Then do not allow the lies from false teachers to turn you against the organization that taught you these truths."— Wt. 11/15 p.11
We all know that JW doctrine changes like the wind. So are they saying here that we should remain captive because of these few things? Clearly they want you to believe that there is no other place to go, and no one else teaches similar things. However, since leaving, I have met up with a church. We don't have a church building to meet in. Rather, we meet at places like conference halls. About 20-30 people meet. There is no governing body or one man directing. It operates more like a cooperative family. Even the one taking the lead asks me for suggestions, and I have only been there a few months. I have met several EXJw's. In my area, it is known as the scattered brethren. It actually is a group associated with the Restoration Fellowship. They are truly scattered throughout the world. It is not high control at all. We are bound by ten or so basic beliefs. All other things are conscience matters. Such as celebrating Christmas. One of the main reasons for meeting, is so I can form new friends. Currently I feel like a prisoner in my own house. I feel having this in common, will make it so much easier to accomplish that. But here is a list of the basic beliefs. Clearly you can see the Watchtower lies to the people, Having you think that no one knows these "wonderful truths".
1. God is only one “person”, not a trinity of persons. He is the Father, the Creator, and has His own personal name, Yahweh. He is repeatedly called the Father and God of the lord Jesus Christ.
2. Jesus the Christ (Messiah, or Anointed One) is the Son of God, not God the Son. Jesus has a God, just like we do. Jesus is our Savior, soon coming King, High Priest, and unique human agent of the One God. According to the Bible, he was miraculously begotten and has been raised from the dead to a position at the right hand of God.
3. The holy spirit is not a person. It is the operational power and presence of God on earth and in the believer of the biblical Jesus, his Father, and the gospel of the coming Kingdom.
4. The gospel concerns the coming Kingdom of God to this erth at the hands of the Messiah Jesus, through whom we have forgiveness of sins and the establishment of the New Covenant through his blood. We are to believe the good news, repent of leading a life based on unbelief, and show fruits indicative of that repentance. When Jesus returns he will resurrect the faithful saints to immortality in the Kingdom of God...the new heavens and the new earth to be established at the end of the current age.
5. According to the Bible, when people die they do not go immediately to heaven, nor to a place of eternal punishing called “hell”. Instead, all except Jesus are currently sound asleep in their graves. When Jesus returns he will raise the faithful dead from their sleep at which time they will be changed from their current carbon-based substance into human beings with “glorified” bodies. Then the rest of the dead will be raised after the initial 1,000 years of the Kingdom of God on earth are completed.
6. Old covenant laws, including laws pertaining to clean and unclean foods and certain holy days, are not prerequisites of fellowship or salvation in the New Covenant Church of God.
7. In the future visible return of Jesus Christ to raise to life the faithful dead (1 Cor. 15:23), establish the millennial Kingdom on earth (Rev. 20:1-6, etc.) and bring about the restoration of the earth promised by the prophets (Acts 1:6; 3:21; 26:6, 7).
8. In the existence of supernatural, cosmic evil headed by (the) Satan (Matt. 12:26) or Devil, as distinct from and in addition to human enemies and the natural evil of the human heart. Satan is the name of a wicked spirit personality, "the god of this age" (2 Cor. 4:4; cp. Eph. 6:12). And in the existence of demons (daimonia) as non-human personalities whom Jesus addressed and they him (Luke 4:41; James 2:19).
9. In the freedom "under grace" and not "under law," inaugurated at the cross in the New Covenant, in contrast to and replacing the Mosaic covenant enacted at Sinai (Gal. 3 and 4; 2 Cor. 3). Issues of physical circumcision and "the whole law" (Gal. 5:3) associated with circumcision, including calendar and food laws, are concerns of the old and not the new covenant. Compare Col. 2:16-17 where the temporary shadow is contrasted with the permanence and newness of Christ.
10. Christians ought never to take up arms and kill their enemies and fellow believers in other nations (Matt. 26:52; John 15:19; 18:36; 1 Pet. 2:9-11; 1 Chron. 22:8).
11. The Bible, consisting of the Hebrew canon (Luke 24:44) and the Greek New Testament Scriptures, is the inspired and authoritative revelation of God (2 Tim. 3:16).
If people want an alternative, this is definitely one of those. As I said, I have met many ExJw's. It resonates for many who have left the Watchtower. Here are a couple of links. I am writing this, just in case you are not who you say you are. Maybe a GB helper troll is on this site trying to spew out more crap.
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Disfellowshipped for celebrating Xmas?
by Theburstbubble ini could really do with some advice on what's acceptable when you leave.
we have left of our own accord about 6 months ago.
we didn't celebrate xmas this year but have just celebrated my daughters birthday.. a friend of mine who is still a witness told me that an elder had approached her and asked if we had celebrated xmas and that if we did it was a df offence as is classed as apostasy!
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theliberator
I would urge you to read the transcript of Jackson's testimony at the Royal Commission and have it ready to share with your elders. You should read the context. But here is what Jackson said, and I quote: " Yes, but if I could mention, Mr Stewart, your first 2 proposition you put forward, that they meet someone who is 3 celebrating Christmas ‐ you know, this person is not 4 associating with other Jehovah's Witnesses, not actively 5 trying to change other people, and so on ‐ a person such as 6 that is not going to be handled judicially, as far as 7 I understand." -
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New Apostasy Trial on YouTube
by Listener ina guy by the name of son of thunder has just uploaded his apostasy trial.
it is really impressive and this guy knows his stuff.
he is very engaging and a pleasure to listen to.
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theliberator
So the real question is, What would convince those elders that this organization is not God's?Let's analyze. Children raped- Jehovah sees all and he will fix things. GB member lies- even if he did, don't you think Jehovah will take care of it? Investing in war machines- Never seen that but Jehovah will straighten that out if it is true.Ummm.....Elders silenced when he said that they don't even believe the overlapping generation doctrine. Oh yeah, I forgot, that probably is another lie, but wait on Jehovah and he will fix it in his due time. This video is embarrassing to me. Just a few years ago I would of spewed out that crap. I got to feel sorry for them. They are truly victims.