Posts by theliberator

23

New June Awake with Misleading Statements about Evidence for god

by ttdtt in

the article (faith) is all about why you should have solid evidence based reasons for belief in god.

it's not good enough to believe in god just because you were raised to believe in god.. (from the article).

but god wants those who worship him to have genuine confidence in his existence and in his love.. then it goes on to tell us how we can get that genuine confidence that there is a god.

theliberator

I strongly believe in God. However, I have always felt gypped when it came to a 2 or 3 page articles about God's existence or the creation. Now it angers me, due to the fact that people read that stupid Awake! and the organization uses it to tell people that they don't need to dig deeper. "Look how wonderful we are. We provide a well rounded education both spiritually and secularly." Bull crap! I am not 2 years old. I will choose what I want to read and reflect on deeper proof for the existence of God.

8

A simple question among other things...

by megaboy in

i would like to ask a question freely to anyone, just to get a feel for those i eccounter in life and be able to meet with them through empathy.. those who spent time with this organization, did you ever feel any sense of wisdom coming from it at all?

when i mean wisdom i mean in a truly sensible manner not the illusion of it.. were there any teachings that would manifest in you respecting your self and your thoughts, as well as others, being able to detect reasonable behavior and detect teachings which promote moderate actions with others?

anything to harvest justfying thoughts are behaviors with others?

theliberator

I wanted to add to my last comment. The Watchtower did teach one thing that has affected me and I always told people this. "If you want to be a rebel against society, become a witness." The organization undermines every "norm" of the world. And so after leaving, I still refuse to be swept away into pop culture thinking. I don't accept something just because "every" scientist says it is true. While I love college, I hate how so many get out and they change from having real opinions to being piously politically correct. I know I left one indoctrination. I don't want to be swept into another. In other words, the Watchtower has taught me not to trust society in general. A good thing? Yes and No.

8

A simple question among other things...

by megaboy in

i would like to ask a question freely to anyone, just to get a feel for those i eccounter in life and be able to meet with them through empathy.. those who spent time with this organization, did you ever feel any sense of wisdom coming from it at all?

when i mean wisdom i mean in a truly sensible manner not the illusion of it.. were there any teachings that would manifest in you respecting your self and your thoughts, as well as others, being able to detect reasonable behavior and detect teachings which promote moderate actions with others?

anything to harvest justfying thoughts are behaviors with others?

theliberator

I am still a Christian. I actually learned many things from that sick organization. I became very familiar with the Bible. And so it was a little easier for me after I left. Also too, they talk alot about love, kindness, generosity, forgiveness, and so on. These concepts became a part of me and so I was always conscious of them. Not everything they teach is necessarily wrong when it come to the fruitage of the spirit in Galatians. Jesus identified the problem: "All things therefore whatever they tell you to observe, observe and do, but don't do their works; for they say, and don't do. For they bind heavy burdens that are grievous to be borne, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not lift a finger to help them. - Matthew: 23. 3, 4

98

OKAY, GAME OVER! The number one reason the New Testament amounts to bunk

by Terry in

for me, the dead giveaway is this.

jesus wrote nothing.. stop and think about that.. if jesus were the authentic messiah, his ministry would not simply be local.. his instructions, his mission, the details of his teachings would be too precious to risk leaving it in the hands of "men unlettered (illiterate) and ordinary (blue-collar yokels).".

jesus, were he the one and only hope of mankind, would be absolutely certain to write down with great simplicity and specificity the exact owner's manual necessary to rescue mankind.. never happened!.

theliberator

Cofty, I did say that spiritual abuse leads to a greater number of atheists.

But what I said is both a fact and a theory.😂 1) It can be statistically demonstrated. 2) It is predictable.

While you can say that some have logically drawn a conclusion that God does not exist, the fact remains, that as a class, spiritual abused people become atheists. Primarily, it is a trust issue.

98

OKAY, GAME OVER! The number one reason the New Testament amounts to bunk

by Terry in

for me, the dead giveaway is this.

jesus wrote nothing.. stop and think about that.. if jesus were the authentic messiah, his ministry would not simply be local.. his instructions, his mission, the details of his teachings would be too precious to risk leaving it in the hands of "men unlettered (illiterate) and ordinary (blue-collar yokels).".

jesus, were he the one and only hope of mankind, would be absolutely certain to write down with great simplicity and specificity the exact owner's manual necessary to rescue mankind.. never happened!.

theliberator

I do not believe spiritual abuse is a "get out jail free card" at all. But since I can't read the heart, I always hope that some here will eventually "wake up" once again. I have only been out a year myself. I have always believed in God and Christ. In fact, that alone has kept my life in tact for the most part. But I am still healing. And while we personally don't want to abuse God's forgiveness, I can't limit the time span of God's forgiveness for others. You see, I have learned alot from the Watchtower. I learned that I was a jerk when I was a witness. No, I wasn't mean to people. But I never considered why people said and did the things they did. I judged on external appearances. And so my words to Terry are not just for Terry. They are for me as well. I am healing and TRYING to rise above my old self and show consideration for people even if what they say, makes my skin crawl. I don't know anything about Terry. A little over a year ago, I would be in his face saying that he is with the company of those who "crucify the Son of God for themselves again, and put him to open shame."- Hebrews 6:6. But now I know that is not my place. David probably felt similar after God forgave him. I feel God has forgiven me and understands that my association with the Watchtower and the way I looked down on people, was not really what I wanted to be. Two scriptures that I always loved was this: : "For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways," says Yahweh. . "For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts." - Isaiah 55:8,9

You see, the Watchtower always applied those words to God's superiority. And that is correct. However, those words mean more to me now, since I viewed the context. Verse 7 : "let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts; and let him return to Yahweh, and he will have mercy on him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon."

In other words, Verse 8 and 9 tells me that even if my heart condemns me, and I feel God can't or will not forgive me, he promises that he will. My mind tells me I can't be forgiven, but God says his thinking is higher than mine, and thus he will forgive. A person today may say the worse things possible. But something may click years down the road, and they need to know that God has not closed the door on them.

98

OKAY, GAME OVER! The number one reason the New Testament amounts to bunk

by Terry in

for me, the dead giveaway is this.

jesus wrote nothing.. stop and think about that.. if jesus were the authentic messiah, his ministry would not simply be local.. his instructions, his mission, the details of his teachings would be too precious to risk leaving it in the hands of "men unlettered (illiterate) and ordinary (blue-collar yokels).".

jesus, were he the one and only hope of mankind, would be absolutely certain to write down with great simplicity and specificity the exact owner's manual necessary to rescue mankind.. never happened!.

theliberator

I agree with myelaine. Jesus Christ and his Father mean more to me now than they ever did when I was in the Watchtower. Ironically, it was due to the fact that after leaving, I could explore philosophy concerning God's existence. I could look at both sides of scientific "logic" vs God's presence. I could examine the "Jesus Seminar". I read things that were once "forbidden." Critical thinking has drawn me to the conclusion that Christ was not only historical but is the Son of God. But I will say this, when I come here, I do not get angry at atheists. My brother became hard core atheist after leaving the Watchtower. But him and I still laugh and have many good conversations. After experiencing the Watchtower, can we expect anything else, other than the majority turning to atheism? It is actually worse with Mormons. Spiritual abuse leads to a greater number of atheists. And so for me personally, I feel that even God understands why you feel the way you do. Most people literally don't have enough years in there life to recover from spiritual abuse. And so when I see such comments it doesn't anger me like it used to. I think about the people who killed Jesus and what Christ shouted: "Father, forgive them, for they don't know what they are doing."- Luke: 23. 34. So if Christ was willing to look past what those men were doing to him, surely he understands why we speak the things we do about him now, after being spiritually abused all those years. Especially you Terry. You gave everything to that sick organization and got nothing in return. Christ was fully aware of the abuse the people were experiencing then. He was angry with the religious leaders. He stood up for the common people who were hurting. And so God " knows how we are made. He remembers that we are dust." - Psalm: 103. 14.

"God is greater than our heart, and knows all things". - 1 John

20

Do you have a Watchtower fantasy?

by pleaseresearch in

picture yourself, it's the last day of a three day district assembly.

your sitting in a near full to capacity football stadium.

people are eagerly looking forward to the final talk.

theliberator

I actually fantasize about such things. Jwfacts I believe, has a story of an elder who was to give a talk, but instead gave his own talk, and used it to disassociate himself. You're making me want to re-read it just thinking of it! On a more realistic note but still a fantasy, I imagine an elder from my former hall knocking on my door one evening with a look of sadness and saying, "well, tell me what you know". I have this fantasy because I feel that some use cognitive dissonance as to why superJW suddenly disappeared. I can swear, some know that I must know something and they are afraid to know themselves. So, I dream of that situation happening. Especially with one particular elder in mind.

38

Fading is never 100% successful is it?

by nicolaou in

mum phoned last night to see how we all are.

after fifteen years away from meetings and my old jw life you'd think my fade could be called 'successful' and for the most part it is.

.. my resentment at being lied to and having wasted over thirty years of my life has left me like a glass of water full to the brim, it only takes a tap to make a mess.

theliberator

I didn't fade. I didn't disassociate. But I cut myself off immediately. My mom called me an apostate at a time when I just discovered TTATT and when I was truly hurting. I let the cat out of the bag. I told her I discovered that the Watchtower had been lying and I can prove it. The fact is, whether you DA or get Df'd makes no difference. The family, "friends" abandon you. You are treated like a barrel of toxic radioactive waste. Since then, I have let her have it with both barrels. I sent her a text saying that it doesn't matter what I say to you anymore, you will not associate or treat me normal until the day you or I die. She is in her early 60's. In short, I agree with No Longer a JW Brother. Like the Watchtower's illustration of surgery, it will hurt and immobilize you, but you will arise with the strength of a lion. It is like a pregnant woman. Doesn't like the thought of giving birth. But by the ninth month, she is miserable and now just wants to get this thing overwith. You are in the ninth month.

12

Things we an say on our death bed...

by The Rebel in

jw
friends

1) i am glad i had the courage to live my life true to myself and not the life others expected of me.. 2) i am glad i had the courage to express my feelings.. 3) i am glad i let myself be myself.. 4 ) and i hope i have so many days, and years to live those thoughts, because surely the most wonderful thing about having left our " watchtower death bed" is to start living?.

in my case at 50 !!.

but the important thing is when we leave, to start living.. any experiences worth sharing?.

theliberator

I want my final words to reflect the biggest lesson from our experience. Never surrender your soul, your freedom to men. No man has special knowledge . Life is precious. Make the most of it. At my funeral, I will play the song "The Garden" from Rush which has become my motto in life. In fact, that entire album is about a man who is swept into organized religion, then discovers TTATT. Sad album. Then it concludes with The Garden which brings tears to my eyes every time I think of it.

49

I have a question.

by DATA-DOG in

according to jwism, god didn't cause suffering, he just allowed it.

wow, that's really, really, dumb.

to help humans out, jeehoobidoob provided the ransom.

theliberator

try Bart Ehrman's "God's Problem".

Is that your new Bible? Critical thinking should help you to see that Bart is full of himself due to the immense side of that book. Holy crap! I practically needed a hand cart to lift thst sucker!