Posts by pomegranate

45

Is the Path to Salvation Clear?

by JosephAlward in

inerrantists believe that every word in the bible is literally true; to believe otherwise, they say, is to remove the foundation upon which one may have a certain understanding of how one may achieve salvation and reach the kingdom of heaven.

that makes perfect sense, on one level.

if one could indeed know that everything in the bible is true, then one would just have to turn to the part where the method of salvation is described, do what the bible says, and live forever.

pomegranate

>>However, the verse I quoted above tells us that no man can know whether God waits with loving arms (salvation)<<

Where does the text say "GODS's LOVING ARMS?"

IT DOES NOT. It says merely love or hate. Man has NO IDEA what the state of death is like. Is it GOOD or BAD?? would be a proper alternate understanding for these words to those ignorant of death, rather that claiming this is a teaching of salvation by God. (Which is NOWHERE in the context.)

Love and Hate = Good or Bad.

Man does not know while he is alive...it is unknown.

>>or whether man finds only hate after death (no salvation). Thus, the verse is clearly stating that one cannot know whether one will be saved or not.<<

Even the word "Saved" IS NOT written in the text, nor is the CONTEXT considering any kind of salvation doctrine. The teaching is everything dies. No matter what. Even the "righteous."

Sorry, I have to stick to the context.

37

Can Man See God and Live?

by JosephAlward in

the author of the book of john evidently believed that no man has seen god, while the author of exodus tells us that moses had, indeed, seen god.

either john is wrong, or exodus is; either way, the bible is in error on this point.

here is the evidence:.

pomegranate

Deut 4:11,12
11 You came near and stood at the foot of the mountain while it blazed with fire to the very heavens, with black clouds and deep darkness. 12 Then the LORD spoke to you out of the fire. You heard the sound of words but saw no form; there was only a voice.

Deut 5:4-5
4 The LORD spoke to you face to face out of the fire on the mountain.

Face to face = figure of speech.

Simple.

14

Where is the proof???

by tracysdad in

where is the scriptural proof that jesus christ is michael the archangel?

is there one verse that states as such?

can michael be worshipped as christ was?

pomegranate

>>In Ezekiel 28:14 the fallen one is called
anointed (Christ) Cherub (Nazarene).<<

You are teaching falsely.

Ezekial chapters 26-28 are speaking of Satan.

Ezek 28:14-15
14 You were anointed as a guardian cherub,
for so I ordained you.
You were on the holy mount of God;
you walked among the fiery stones.
15 You were blameless in your ways
from the day you were created
till wickedness was found in you.

There is NO WICKEDNESS in Christ, yet you teach this guardian cherub to be him.

Great woe to you. You call the light darkness.

Isa 5:20
20 Woe to those who call evil good
and good evil,
who put darkness for light
and light for darkness,
who put bitter for sweet
and sweet for bitter.

14

Where is the proof???

by tracysdad in

where is the scriptural proof that jesus christ is michael the archangel?

is there one verse that states as such?

can michael be worshipped as christ was?

pomegranate

The pudding is really puke, so don't eat it.

I'm with you tracysdad.

Michael and Jesus are two different beings.

45

Is the Path to Salvation Clear?

by JosephAlward in

inerrantists believe that every word in the bible is literally true; to believe otherwise, they say, is to remove the foundation upon which one may have a certain understanding of how one may achieve salvation and reach the kingdom of heaven.

that makes perfect sense, on one level.

if one could indeed know that everything in the bible is true, then one would just have to turn to the part where the method of salvation is described, do what the bible says, and live forever.

pomegranate

>>"No man knows whether love or hate awaits him (Ecclesiastes 9:1)<<

Again, Joseph MAINTAINS his taking things out of context. The above is NOT a text to support a man NOT knowing whether he is saved or not, rather it is a text expounding on the fact that PRESENTLY, without God's justice, all men have the exact same DESTINY.

Eccl 9:1-3
9:1 So I reflected on all this and concluded that the righteous and the wise and what they do are in God's hands, but no man knows whether love or hate awaits him. 2 All share a common destiny-the righteous and the wicked, the good and the bad, the clean and the unclean, those who offer sacrifices and those who do not.

As it is with the good man,
so with the sinner;
as it is with those who take oaths,
so with those who are afraid to take them.

3 This is the evil in everything that happens under the sun: The same destiny overtakes all.

It is CONTEXTUALLY talking about the destiny of DEATH for ALL men "righteous" or sinner, it is not about being saved or not.

Try reading the context Joseph. Quit dwelling on one sentence. You deceive that way.

45

Is the Path to Salvation Clear?

by JosephAlward in

inerrantists believe that every word in the bible is literally true; to believe otherwise, they say, is to remove the foundation upon which one may have a certain understanding of how one may achieve salvation and reach the kingdom of heaven.

that makes perfect sense, on one level.

if one could indeed know that everything in the bible is true, then one would just have to turn to the part where the method of salvation is described, do what the bible says, and live forever.

pomegranate

>>Unfortunately for Christians, it’s not that simple, RR. The Bible gives conflicting advice about the path to salvation. In one place you’re told that faith is not enough, that you must give away all of your possessions: “l everything you have and give to the poor.” (Luke 18:22) Do you plan to do that, or have you done it already, RR?<<

Blind men always take things out of context.

Luke 18:19-27
19 "Why do you call me good?" Jesus answered. "No one is good-except God alone. 20 You know the commandments: 'Do not commit adultery, do not murder, do not steal, do not give false testimony, honor your father and mother.'"

21 "All these I have kept since I was a boy," he said.

22 When Jesus heard this, he said to him, "You still lack one thing. Sell everything you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me."

23 When he heard this, he became very sad, because he was a man of great wealth. 24 Jesus looked at him and said, "How hard it is for the rich to enter the kingdom of God! 25 Indeed, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God."

26 Those who heard this asked, "Who then can be saved?"

27 Jesus replied, "What is impossible with men is possible with God."

Please read verse 27. That is the truth. That is the conclusion of the point of the context regarding this particular rich man. No man, regardless of what he does, can save himself. It is impossible.

>>In another place you’re told that in addition to faith, you must `Love your neighbor as yourself.' …. "Do this and you will live.” (Luke 10:25-28)<<

Those chosen would by nature do this.

>>By the way, this is Jesus talking, the same Jesus Pom thinks was and is the “Jesus YHWH” who ordered the slaying of the Amalekites and the murder of the suckling babes in 1 Samuel 15:3.<<

Jesus is revelaing his disciples would do this as they would naturally do as chosen ones. Jesus as a man would also follow his own counsel while existing as a man. But, in his glorified state of God, he read minds and hearts and can destroy wicked ones such as the Amalekites, which Joseph seems to have a loving hankering for.

See the glorified Jesus Christ now Joseph and what he has to say:

Rev 2:20-23
21 I have given her time to repent of her immorality, but she is unwilling. 22 So I will cast her on a bed of suffering, and I will make those who commit adultery with her suffer intensely, unless they repent of her ways. 23 I will strike her children dead. Then all the churches will know that I am he who searches hearts and minds, and I will repay each of you according to your deeds.

>>In yet another place, you’re told that besides faith, you must do good works, “What good is it, my brothers, if a man claims to have faith but has no deeds?” (James 2:14)<<

Taken out of context again Joseph. You way is getting old.

Works of mercy and works of sacrifice are two different works. As Jesus himself reveals to you Joseph:

Matt 9:12-13
13 But go and learn what this means: 'I desire mercy (works), not sacrifice (works).'

Could these merciful WORKS be the WORKS that are talked about in James, works of mercy?? What example of these works does James give??

James 2:14-17
14 What good is it, my brothers, if a man claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save him? 15 Suppose a brother or sister is without clothes and daily food. 16 If one of you says to him, "Go, I wish you well; keep warm and well fed," but does nothing about his physical needs, what good is it? 17 In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.

The merciful works would be filling your needy brothers stomach and clothing his body and giving him place to live. WORKS OF MERCY, which works along with FAITH. If one has true faith, the works of mercy COME NATURAL. One cannot have faith without WORKS OF MERCY. They are like a left and right or head and body to each other.

John 6:28-29
28 Then they asked him, "What must we do to do the works God requires?"

29 Jesus answered, "The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent."

Sacrificial works don't cut it anymore. Merciful works are a fruit of Love that comes from the believing in God. Even faith in God does not come from within, it comes from above. He gives us faith to believe in him.

>>And, finally, it doesn’t matter whether you have faith or not, do good works or not, because your salvation, or its absence, was decided before you were born, so no matter WHAT you do, your fate--good or bad--was long ago sealed. “For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love 5 he predestined us to be adopted as his sons through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will Lord Jesus Christ” (Ephesians 1:3-6)<<

You are half right here Mr. Joseph. But it DOES matter what you do:

Gal 5:13-14
13 You, my brothers, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the sinful nature; rather, serve one another in love.

1 Peter 2:16-17
16 Live as free men, but do not use your freedom as a cover-up for evil; live as servants of God.

>>Now, are you still so sure about how you might be saved?<<

Yup. You?

37

Can Man See God and Live?

by JosephAlward in

the author of the book of john evidently believed that no man has seen god, while the author of exodus tells us that moses had, indeed, seen god.

either john is wrong, or exodus is; either way, the bible is in error on this point.

here is the evidence:.

pomegranate

>>If your perception of Jah or Jesus is influenced by something you've read in the Bible, and it turns out that that portion of the Bible is false,<<

Of which you have FAILED to prove.

>>then you are essentially worshipping a false god.<<

Joseph worships a true God? Which God is that?

>>Thus, it is very important to know whether and where the Bible is in error.<<

Which I have yet to see with hard proof.

>>If you study it closely, you'll find that most of the stories about Jesus Mark wrote were patterned after events in the life of Elijah, Moses, David, and, of course, deeds by the Lord. The Marcan stories are fictional.<<

Joseph's man made opinion. Of which HE is entitled to.

37

Can Man See God and Live?

by JosephAlward in

the author of the book of john evidently believed that no man has seen god, while the author of exodus tells us that moses had, indeed, seen god.

either john is wrong, or exodus is; either way, the bible is in error on this point.

here is the evidence:.

pomegranate

>>I think it's clear that even if there were a verse that read, "Moses looked into the face of God," Pom would claim that it was figure of speech of some sort, or if the Bible said that "Moses saw the eyes and nose on the face of God, Pom would conclude that the "face" that couldn't be seen by man was a metaphor for his "soul," or his mind, and that what really couldn't be "seen" (understood) was the mind of God.<<

All of the things you would like to have the Bible say above ARE NOT in the Bible. What is in the Bible is explicitly clear. Face means FULL glory. "Back" means a small portion. That which cannot be seen in YHWH Son is the "FACE." Very simple.

I see you have no comment on the easy text when read in context regarding the 70 elders disobedience and YHWH NOT rasing his hand to them for DISOBEYING a command. Your point is sunk on that text. If you are an honest man, you will never use that text again to support YOUR contradiction.

>>No matter what, Pom will never admit there's a error in the Bible.<<

I would admit if YOU had proof beyond a shadow of a doubt. You are dancing in the shadows. I have given ample proof that YOU are wrong regarding the "70 elders" text. I see no rebuttal or admission of, "well pom, that does seem to be what is happening there."
So who's zoomin who here?

>> In fact, it may not be possible to construct a sentence about anyone seeing God's face that Pom wouldn't be able to explain away.<<

Yeah, there would be. If YHWH GOD SAID you CAN see my face and yet live. What does YHWH say Joseph? HE WILL ALWAYS TELL THE TRUTH:

YOU CANNOT SEE MY FACE AND YET LIVE. PERIOD.

That is as simple as it gets out of God's own mouth. So in a nutshell, you call God a liar by saying someone DID see his face, when He flatly denies that seeing his face is impossible.

God says it can't be done, Mr Joseph supercedes God's own words and says man can, by twisting texts and removing context. Typical dark strategies.

I believe God NOT you, a mere man.

>>This is standard practice for those who have to believe that the Bible is inerrant in all of its parts, that there isn't an error anywhere.<<

Standard practice?? I see you shuffled right around taking things out of context huh? That is the mockers code of ethic, remove the context. Isolate a few words.

But hey, that's OK for you, continue to mock. The Bible said there would be guys like you.

>>I think both Pom and and I have made the points we wished to make, so we can move on to some other topic. May I ask which Bible people use, and whether they believe it's inerrant?<<

Yup. Your supposed contradictions are with YOU alone.

37

Can Man See God and Live?

by JosephAlward in

the author of the book of john evidently believed that no man has seen god, while the author of exodus tells us that moses had, indeed, seen god.

either john is wrong, or exodus is; either way, the bible is in error on this point.

here is the evidence:.

pomegranate

Figures of speech.

After Jacob wrestled a MAN, he says the following:

Gen 32:30
30 So Jacob called the place Peniel, saying, "It is because I saw God face to face, and yet my life was spared."

Life spared referencing he got the crap physcially kicked out of him by this man, with his hip joint being dislocated...yet he says "He saw God"...Jacobs figure of speech for dealing with God's representative.

Ex 33:11
11 The LORD would speak to Moses face to face,

Here's one where YWHW defines "face to face"

Num 12:8
8 With him I speak face to face,
clearly and not in riddles;

Again, another example of "face to face" meaning the TWO PILLAR's:

Num 14:14
you O LORD, have been seen face to face (TALKING ABOUT THE EGYPTIANS "SEEING" God), that your cloud stays over them, and that you go before them in a pillar of cloud by day and a pillar of fire by night.

See Joseph? Face to face means here the Egyptians seeing the TWO PILLARS. Face to face is a figure of speech here too in relation to God.

Deut 5:4-5
4 The LORD spoke to you face to face out of the fire on the mountain.

Hmmm. Fire has a face now?? Figure of speech...

You know, ONE ON ONE. GOOD BUDDIES.

Deut 34:10-11
10 Since then, no prophet has risen in Israel like Moses, whom the LORD knew face to face,

FIGURES of SPEECH, Joseph...that is easy GRAMMAR.

Can we get our debate out of the elementary grammar???

37

Can Man See God and Live?

by JosephAlward in

the author of the book of john evidently believed that no man has seen god, while the author of exodus tells us that moses had, indeed, seen god.

either john is wrong, or exodus is; either way, the bible is in error on this point.

here is the evidence:.

pomegranate

4
>>The LORD spoke to you FACE TO FACE out of the fire on the mountain.<<

Figure of speech.

You seem to be scrambling for anything...