Posts by pomegranate

23

Genesis Error: The Rainbow Covenant

by JosephAlward in

after the lord had drowned every living thing on the surface of the earth except noah and his family and the animals brought to the ark, he told noah that from that time forth there would be no more apocalyptic floods, and as a token of his good intentions the lord would create the rainbow:.

and god...spake unto noah, and to his sons with him, saying...i establish my covenant with you.... neither shall all flesh be cut off any more by the waters of a flood; neither shall there any more be a flood to destroy the earth.

and god said, this is the token of the covenant which i make between me and you and every living creature that is with you, for perpetual generations: i do set my bow in the cloud, and it shall be for a token of a covenant between me and the earth.

pomegranate

For instance?

109

Matthew Makes Another Error

by JosephAlward in

the 1 chronicles author lists the descendents of david; some of these, in order, are jehoshaphat, jehoram, ahaziah, joash, amaziah, azariah, jotham, ahaz, hezekiah, manasseh (1 chronicles 3:10-13 niv).

the matthew author contradicts this genealogy; he leaves out the four consecutive descendents underlined above, and in their place puts uzziah, who he says is jehorams son.

(matthew 1:8-10 niv).

pomegranate

But where does the two seven's (7 7), and three sevens (77 7)generate from? Surely there must be a source.

I believe it is here, in the beginning:

Gen 2:2-3
2 By the seventh day God (YHWH Son) had finished the work he had been doing; so on the seventh day he rested from all his work.

3 And God (YHWH Father) blessed the seventh day and made it holy, because on it he rested from all the work of creating that he had done.

YHWH Father = 7
YHWH Son = 77

YHWH Father and YHWH Son = 777

23

Genesis Error: The Rainbow Covenant

by JosephAlward in

after the lord had drowned every living thing on the surface of the earth except noah and his family and the animals brought to the ark, he told noah that from that time forth there would be no more apocalyptic floods, and as a token of his good intentions the lord would create the rainbow:.

and god...spake unto noah, and to his sons with him, saying...i establish my covenant with you.... neither shall all flesh be cut off any more by the waters of a flood; neither shall there any more be a flood to destroy the earth.

and god said, this is the token of the covenant which i make between me and you and every living creature that is with you, for perpetual generations: i do set my bow in the cloud, and it shall be for a token of a covenant between me and the earth.

pomegranate

>>As I see it, God did not create Satan persay.<<

Did God "KNOW" evil before it existed? And wouldn't God knowing evil before it existed be darkness inside God? I believe the line is drawn at Satan. Before Satan, God did not KNOW evil nor was He omniscient. After Satan, God "knew" evil and became omniscient.

With Adam and Eve, before Satan they did not KNOW evil nor care that they were "naked." After Satan they "knew" evil and cared that they were naked. That is what omniscience does, makes EVERYTHING naked and bare. NOTHING IS HIDDEN.

Heb 4:13
13 Nothing in all creation is hidden from God's sight Everything is uncovered and laid bare before the eyes of him to whom we must give account.

>>Jesus asked "what man who builds a house does not count the cost first...." Well then, should this not be for God also?<<

You believe God has to count costs? Men count costs because they have limited resources. God has unlimited resources. Why should God count costs with unlimited resources? Have you looked to the sky lately? What were the costs for the universe? Do you really think God counted COST??? Unlimited resources never expire, so COST is not a problem with God. What will stop Him from His will and purpose? Nothing.

Job 12:13-24
3 "To God belong wisdom and power;
counsel and understanding are his.
14 What he tears down cannot be rebuilt;
the man he imprisons cannot be released.
15 If he holds back the waters, there is drought;
if he lets them loose, they devastate the land.
16 To him belong strength and victory;
both deceived and deceiver are his.
17 He leads counselors away stripped
and makes fools of judges.
18 He takes off the shackles put on by kings
and ties a loincloth around their waist.
19 He leads priests away stripped
and overthrows men long established.
20 He silences the lips of trusted advisers
and takes away the discernment of elders.
21 He pours contempt on nobles
and disarms the mighty.
22 He reveals the deep things of darkness
and brings deep shadows into the light.
23 He makes nations great, and destroys them;
he enlarges nations, and disperses them.
24 He deprives the leaders of the earth of their reason;
he sends them wandering through a trackless waste.

Isn't it true that whatever God says happens? Isn't it a fact that whatever God says, will not return to Him without results? The results HE wants? You think He has to count costs?

Job 38:2-3
2 "Who is this that darkens my counsel
with words without knowledge?
3 Brace yourself like a man;
I will question you,
and you shall answer me.

>>Scripture tells us that the lamb of God was known before the founding of the earth.<<

The lamb of God was for one purpose only. Sacrifice. So, if the sacrificial lamb was known BEFORE the earth was created, then that means God knew of the fall of Adam and Eve before it happened. It even says this of the chosen:

Eph 1:3-5
4 For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love 5 he predestined us to be adopted as his sons through Jesus Christ,

Not only was the sacrifice for redemption foreknow and predestined, so were the ones bound to sin, only to be adopted to God. "He predestined us to be ADOPTED," that means "sonship" was somehow not to be for the chosen initially by creation, but through adoption. If the adoption was foreknown and predestined, sin had to be foreknown and predestined because SIN is the reason for the adoption back to God, is it not?

>>Well, this means that God knew about sin.<<

The point is WHEN did he "know" about sin. Was it before Satan? If it was before Satan, then God is the evil one as He would be the source of the KNOWledge, correct?

>>Whether or not he knew that Adam and Eve would sin, I won't venture into.<<

You have to. The Bible makes you with the phrases I have pointed out. Like, "before the law was given, sin was in the world." That obviously has to mean Satan. Then, the chosen having to be "predestined to be adopted," is indeed proof positive that God foreknew that Adam and Eve were going down.

>>What we do know is that in creating humans and giving such humans free will, God knew that there was the possibility of humans [whether Adam or some other individuals] of abusing such a will.<<

Freewill? If God foreknows your every move and thought and desire, how is it you have freewill?

Job 31:4
4 Does he not see my ways and count my every step?

Rev 2:23
Then all the churches will know that I am he who searches hearts and minds,

You think you have freewill because you are not omniscient. Another thing, if Paul was PREDESTINED to be adopted, where was his freewill in the matter? Have you ever scrutinized his conversion? Where was his freewill to serve Christ or not? It seemed to me he was BLINDLY forced into submission to God. And loved every minute of it.

If God is truly omniscient, man has NO freewill. It is only an illusion of evil.

>>So he counted the cost before, looked at all the pros and cons and proceded with his plan.<<

You make God out to be a man. There are only PRO's when God does something. Everything God does is GOOD. There is not one CON with or in God. All the CONS are from Satan.

If chosen to be adopted, I hope to be an EX-CON.

>>God would have been justified in destroying Adam, Eve and anyone else who broke the rules.<<

Adam and Eve did break the rule and the penalty was paid exactly as the LAW said. For Satan, there was no immediate law as HE was the first to go bad, so there was no immediate penalty. You mention God being JUSTIFIED. JUSTICE is built on ONE thing. LAW. If there is NO LAW, there is no JUSTICE. Adam and Eve's penalty WAS justified as there was a LAW in place with a KNOWN penalty.

I believe JUSTICE was another quality that God created within Himself after Satan went defiant. If before Satan there was no BAD, then there was NO JUSTICE, because there would obviously be NO LAW FOR GOOD. Here was heaven BEFORE Satan:

Gal 5:22-23
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.

AND GOOD WAS ALL THERE WAS before Satan went bad but BAD ALWAYS COMES BEFORE A LAW.

If all was good, there was No BAD, No LAW for bad, No JUSTICE as justice is bound to LAW.

>>And thus, God allowed man to govern themselves with out his help.<<

God never allowed that. Man left God to govern themselves. Just like Satan left God to govern himself and the demons left God to govern themselves. Man's way leads to death. It's God's way or no way and that's Yehweh speaking.

Jer 10:23
23 I know, O LORD, that a man's life is not his own; it is not for man to direct his steps.

His life isn't his own and his will to direct his step isn't his own. So...Where does this freewill thingy fit in? Seems God has taken it all away with this statement, doesn't it?

23

Genesis Error: The Rainbow Covenant

by JosephAlward in

after the lord had drowned every living thing on the surface of the earth except noah and his family and the animals brought to the ark, he told noah that from that time forth there would be no more apocalyptic floods, and as a token of his good intentions the lord would create the rainbow:.

and god...spake unto noah, and to his sons with him, saying...i establish my covenant with you.... neither shall all flesh be cut off any more by the waters of a flood; neither shall there any more be a flood to destroy the earth.

and god said, this is the token of the covenant which i make between me and you and every living creature that is with you, for perpetual generations: i do set my bow in the cloud, and it shall be for a token of a covenant between me and the earth.

pomegranate

Excellent excellent question.

I believe NEW attributes were created inside God once Satan acted in defiance. Attributes to thwart bad. Ask this question to yourself, do you think it possible for God to create things on the inside of Himself as well as the outside of Himself? I believe the answer is a no brainer.

First omniscience. I do not believe God possesed omniscience BEFORE Satan rebelled. I believe it was created inside of Him AFTER Satan rebelled. Why? If God were omniscient prior to Satan, then God is the sole source of all evil that there ever was and will be.

If God foreknew evil (Satan) by way of omniscience, then God brought into existence this evil by giving it life, means God is the evil one as He created it in living form after inventing it by foreknowing it and having it come to be.

Omniscience goes hand in hand with another quality. Predestination. If God foreknew evil, brought it into existence by giving it life, then those "evil ones" who were given life were predestined to evil from the source of evil (that would be the one who THOUGHT of evil by way of foreknowing all Evil), and that would be God.

It is a well known fact in the Bible that God is presently omniscient. We who are not even angels know that there is no possible defeating a being that knows all things BEFORE they happen. Do you think Satan was less intelligent then we mere humans when it came to omniscience? No, if HE KNEW IT, he would not have rebelled. Do you really think Satan would have rebelled if God was always omniscient?

Satan knew NOT the creative abilities of the true God. Satan knew NOT that God would grow by creating attributes inside of Himself to deafeat the evil that GREW OUTSIDE of Him. The evil came from outside of God, NOT INSIDE. If that is true, then there was NEVER any evil inside of God, which means there was a time that God was NOT omniscient, which would have been BEFORE there was evil.

Evil comes from within and there is no evil within God.

1 John 1:5-6
5 This is the message we have heard from him and declare to you: God is light; in him there is no darkness at all.

23

Genesis Error: The Rainbow Covenant

by JosephAlward in

after the lord had drowned every living thing on the surface of the earth except noah and his family and the animals brought to the ark, he told noah that from that time forth there would be no more apocalyptic floods, and as a token of his good intentions the lord would create the rainbow:.

and god...spake unto noah, and to his sons with him, saying...i establish my covenant with you.... neither shall all flesh be cut off any more by the waters of a flood; neither shall there any more be a flood to destroy the earth.

and god said, this is the token of the covenant which i make between me and you and every living creature that is with you, for perpetual generations: i do set my bow in the cloud, and it shall be for a token of a covenant between me and the earth.

pomegranate

>>Are you saying that God knew humans would sin,<<

No, the Apostle Paul said it under inspiration from God. I just showed it to you. Do you not agree with the very simple words of Paul?

>>and created laws based on this,<<

No you have plainly misunderstood. He created first law based on PRE-EXISTING evil, which was Satan, who was already in the world sinning before the FIRST LAW and before the beginning of the physical creation in Gen 1:1. Please re-read the above. BEFORE THE LAW WAS GIVEN sin was in the world.

Well if before the law of "do not eat" was given sin was in the world, that rules out Adam and Eve doesn't it because Adam and Eve didn't sin yet. God surely was NOT the sin that was in the world before he gave the command of law, so that eliminates Him too. That only leaves the big Bozo of sins creation, Satan the Devil as the one sinning in the world before the first LAW was given.

>>and then tricked them into breaking them,<<

There was no trick on Adam and Eve. Adam and Eve willfully broke the law by reaching out their hands all by themselves. There certainly was a calculated "trick" played on Satan though.

>>in order that we could later be redeemed?<<

The whole plan for the physical creation was for redemption OF ALL creation, in heaven and on earth, as ALL creation was barraged and contaminated with Satanic corruption. That was the sole purpose of mankind, to be used as a tool, so the redeemer could come through inherited corruption and be killed at the hands of Satan's system of things, of which he is "god" of and responsible for.

Only after the "god of this system of things" was fully culpable for the death of Christ could the true God have JUST reason by way of an instituted LAW, for Satan to be put down.

You see, this is why Christ HAD to be "God" in heaven before he became 100% man on earth. He could be NO LESS than God when he was in heaven in order for Satan's guilt to warrant death. The sacrifice had to be that great, because Satan's sinful claim was that encompassing. Justice is built on BALANCED scales.

Satan's claim was/is, I AM A GOD. Yet, Satan had NEVER been bound by law, so no penalty. If he was bound by a law with penalty attached, his destruction would have been immediate. Again, with no law, there is no accounting. So, law had to be made, with PENALTY attached. That took time. Mankind was the time, the tool and the trick. ALL LAW from God came through MEN, though the intent from the beginning was to bring ALL LAW into the heavens, where before there was none.

In order for "a false god" to be justly put down by the true God, the false god had to be guilty of a crime that fit the punishment of death. The law that made such a murder a crime was revealed through Moses. Justice serves equilibrium, and is not partial.

Eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth, life for a life.

Scale one: Balanced Justly

Jesus (Who WAS YHWH Son in heaven)........Satan (I AM A GOD in heaven)

Satan is guilty of murdering the one on the left, while Jesus was in the form of a man. How shall this scale be balanace? Death to the one on the right.

Scale two: Balanced Justly

Jesus (Perfect Second Adam)..........Adam (Perfect First Adam)

Satan is guilty of CORRUPTLY influencing the man on the right, indirectly causing his death. How shall this scale be balanced? Death to the one on the left.

>>Seems very messy, and decidedly unfair.<<

Actually, it is quite brilliant and tidy and perfectly Just.

I only await for the final EXECUTION of JUDGMENT, because Satan is in fact guilty of murdering a perfect man on earth, who was God in heaven.

G'Day.

PS. A Christmas present to all. A couple of pomegranate tunes for you to enjoy.

* http://www.mp3.com/trippy

109

Matthew Makes Another Error

by JosephAlward in

the 1 chronicles author lists the descendents of david; some of these, in order, are jehoshaphat, jehoram, ahaziah, joash, amaziah, azariah, jotham, ahaz, hezekiah, manasseh (1 chronicles 3:10-13 niv).

the matthew author contradicts this genealogy; he leaves out the four consecutive descendents underlined above, and in their place puts uzziah, who he says is jehorams son.

(matthew 1:8-10 niv).

pomegranate

Regarding Jacob:

Work seven years, gets Leah.
Work seven years, gets Rachel.

7..Leah...7...Rachel.

77.

Jesus Christ again.

Do you think the Jews knew to look for #77?

Sure did.

How many seven's visually make up 77? Two.

Two seven's

2 7's

27 Books in the New Testament.

23

Genesis Error: The Rainbow Covenant

by JosephAlward in

after the lord had drowned every living thing on the surface of the earth except noah and his family and the animals brought to the ark, he told noah that from that time forth there would be no more apocalyptic floods, and as a token of his good intentions the lord would create the rainbow:.

and god...spake unto noah, and to his sons with him, saying...i establish my covenant with you.... neither shall all flesh be cut off any more by the waters of a flood; neither shall there any more be a flood to destroy the earth.

and god said, this is the token of the covenant which i make between me and you and every living creature that is with you, for perpetual generations: i do set my bow in the cloud, and it shall be for a token of a covenant between me and the earth.

pomegranate

You don't think God foreknew His disappointment in man BEFORE the flood? What did He do, turn off His omniscience?

God knew Adam and Eve were going to sin before they did. After all, laws are only meant for one thing. To be broken.

Laws are meant for bad. Bad comes first, law comes second. If Adam and Eve had not yet sinned, yet God made a law against bad for them, bad was already in existence. That bad certainly CANNOT be equated as God the Creator of all things.

The following from Paul is all about the LAW given to Adam, and shows God knew EVERYTHING that was going to happen:

Rom 5:12-21
12 Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all men, because all sinned- 13 for before the law was given, sin was in the world.

Please note "before the law was given, sin was in the world." Verse 12 starts off talking about Adam on how sin came into the world. Verse 13 is a continuation of the same sentence of verse 12, so the context is absolutely the same, and the context is Adam.

So. BEFORE "Do Not Eat" was given (THE LAW), sin was in the world. That sin was Satan, already in adversary mode towards God.

But sin is not taken into account when there is no law.

This continued verse 13 explains why God did not destroy Satan right away. Because there was no bad prior to Satan, so there was no law. Satan's adversarial actions could not be taken into account because there was no law against it.

The context of Adam's sin against the very first law is maintained:

14. Nevertheless, death reigned from the time of Adam to the time of Moses, even over those who did not sin by breaking a command, as did Adam [Do Not Eat], who was a pattern of the one to come.

Death came as a result of Adam, even for those who did not break the law command of "Do not eat."

15 But the gift is not like the trespass [Do not eat]. For if the many died by the trespass of the one man [Do not eat], how much more did God's grace and the gift that came by the grace of the one man, Jesus Christ, overflow to the many!

Again, the law of "Do not eat" being broken by Adam is still the context.

16 Again, the gift of God is not like the result of the one man's sin [Do Not Eat]: The judgment followed one sin [Do Not Eat] and brought condemnation, but the gift followed many trespasses and brought justification.

Again, the law of "Do not eat" being broken by Adam is still the context.

17 For if, by the trespass of the one man [Do Not Eat], death reigned through that one man, how much more will those who receive God's abundant provision of grace and of the gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man, Jesus Christ.

Again, the law of "Do not eat" being broken by Adam is still the context.

18 Consequently, just as the result of one trespass [Do Not Eat] was condemnation for all men, so also the result of one act of righteousness was justification that brings life for all men. 19 For just as through the disobedience of the one man [Do Not Eat] the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.

Again, the law of "Do not eat" being broken by Adam is STILL the context. Now, here is the proof that God knew Adam and Eve were going to fall by the hands of Satan:

20 The law [DO NOT EAT] was added so that the trespass might increase.

God gave the law to Adam and Eve so that the trespass would increase.
Yes, sin increased as Adam and Eve fell, all foreknown by God.

But where sin increased, grace increased all the more, 21 so that, just as sin reigned in death, so also grace might reign through righteousness to bring eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Again regarding law and no law:

Rom 4:15
15 because law brings wrath. And where there is no law there is no transgression.

Does it say law MAYBE brings wrath? No, "LAW BRINGS WRATH." Regarding Satan? "Where there is no law there is no transgression."

And on the flip side, where there IS LAW, there is transgression.

If God foreknew Adam and Eve to fall, He also foreknew His disappoinment in men at the time of the flood and revealed it in the 6th chapter of Genesis.

10

for FRIEND on BLOOD

by Pathofthorns in

jw
friends

hey friend.. i see you're encouraging letter writing to the society on blood.

can u please give some tips on what to include.

i figure i'd like to include your (lol) research paper as well.

pomegranate

* http://www.mp3.com/trippy

109

Matthew Makes Another Error

by JosephAlward in

the 1 chronicles author lists the descendents of david; some of these, in order, are jehoshaphat, jehoram, ahaziah, joash, amaziah, azariah, jotham, ahaz, hezekiah, manasseh (1 chronicles 3:10-13 niv).

the matthew author contradicts this genealogy; he leaves out the four consecutive descendents underlined above, and in their place puts uzziah, who he says is jehorams son.

(matthew 1:8-10 niv).

pomegranate

Noah first let's out a raven, then a dove, then a dove again. How many days did Noah wait between sending out the birds? Seven.

Raven...7....Dove....7...Dove.

One of these things is not like the other.
Trash the black bird.

Hmmm. There's that 77 again.

Remember Jesus OWN words?

Matt 18:22
22 Jesus answered, "I tell you, not seven times, but seventy-seven times." (Remember Genesis 4:24?)

Mr. 77 (77 JESUS CHRIST) tells it like it really is. Kewl huh? (And LOOK MA!!! NO CODE!!!)

109

Matthew Makes Another Error

by JosephAlward in

the 1 chronicles author lists the descendents of david; some of these, in order, are jehoshaphat, jehoram, ahaziah, joash, amaziah, azariah, jotham, ahaz, hezekiah, manasseh (1 chronicles 3:10-13 niv).

the matthew author contradicts this genealogy; he leaves out the four consecutive descendents underlined above, and in their place puts uzziah, who he says is jehorams son.

(matthew 1:8-10 niv).

pomegranate

>>as you yourself have taken great pains to point out, his posts here are not precisely the same as the original essays.<<

Yes. He contradicts himself. Gotta love it.

>>this is about as 'interesting' as the bible code guy.<<

Now THAT'S manipulating, mine's revealing.