Posts by NotFormer

9

Lessons in Deception

by Sea Breeze in

jw
friends

i recently came across a piece of historical trivia: italian singer adriano celentano released a song in the 70's with complete nonsense lyrics meant to mimic american english, to prove italians would love any english song.

it was a huge international hit!.

it made me think how the wt simillarly used a lot of stage props and nonsensical religious sounding words to fool millions into destroying their families and futures.

NotFormer

I thought "undeserved kindness" was their term for "grace". But it's a great example of the way they change things for the sake of difference.

As for the the video clip, some of it sounds kind of English; it's quite an amusing exercise. I remember a lot of stuff from the 60s and 70s where foreign languages were represented. They never got someone who actually spoke a language to coach the actors in what to say, but would just rattle off something that they thought sounded like the language. As much as I loved Scooby Doo Where Are You, I always cringe at the bit in the episode Mystery Mask Mix-up where Don Messick (Scooby's voice) is supposedly speaking Chinese (Cantonese?) to a bloke in a Chinese laundry in San Francisco, and he's just making a lot of Chinese sounding noises. 🙄

I suppose that all aligns with your original point, that the WT tried to create a religious "sound" that was unique from the the other religions of the time. So the WT buzzwords are just them making a lot of religious sounding noises.

9

Lessons in Deception

by Sea Breeze in

jw
friends

i recently came across a piece of historical trivia: italian singer adriano celentano released a song in the 70's with complete nonsense lyrics meant to mimic american english, to prove italians would love any english song.

it was a huge international hit!.

it made me think how the wt simillarly used a lot of stage props and nonsensical religious sounding words to fool millions into destroying their families and futures.

NotFormer

They found themselves in a dilemma whereby they wanted to appear religious, while not being identifiably like any religion. Over the years they have had to sometimes walk that back to appear more mainstream. It is my understanding that they rejected the label "Christian" , until they felt the need to change that stance. I heard that they were allowed to claim to be born again when mainstream protestants challenged them on this on the doorstep (that may not be true, it was something I was told by fellow Pentecostals during the 80s. Is there any WT ruling on claiming to be "born again"?

9

Lessons in Deception

by Sea Breeze in

jw
friends

i recently came across a piece of historical trivia: italian singer adriano celentano released a song in the 70's with complete nonsense lyrics meant to mimic american english, to prove italians would love any english song.

it was a huge international hit!.

it made me think how the wt simillarly used a lot of stage props and nonsensical religious sounding words to fool millions into destroying their families and futures.

NotFormer

I find the WT buzzwords to be fascinating. The one that bemuses me most is "fine". As in Jehovah's fine arrangement ("arrangement" is another buzzword that they seem to love peppering things with). Even to the point where Jesus is the "fine shepherd" (!) in their rendition of John 10:11 and 10:14! They can't even bring themselves to call Jesus "good"??

They started out differentiating between themselves and mainstream Christianity by rejecting standard terms, and having to find substitutes. So, information boards instead of bulletin boards, talks instead of sermons, all their different terms for office holders to not sound like they have a clergical hierarchy, Kingdom Hall instead of church and so on.

22

Former Jehovah's Witness admits: We targeted grief-stricken as 'ripe fruit'

by Londo111 in

http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/news/80708572/former-jehovahs-witness-admits-we-targeted-grief-stricken-as-ripe-fruit.

jehovah's witnesses target grief and see the recently bereaved as "ripe fruit" for conversion, a former elder of the faith says.. vince and michele tylor spoke out after reading the story of wellington woman jean sergent-shadbolt, who received a handwritten letter from a jehovah's witness three months to the day after her step-cousin, friend and flatmate died.. a current senior elder of the faith says it has no policy to target grieving, and those who do so are acting on their own initiative.

however, he concedes such people may feel guided by jehovah's witness literature.. but vince tylor said he knew of members who would trawl though obituaries to find grieving people, or visit cemeteries.. "not only do we see watchtower printed material suggesting and supporting writing letters from obituaries such as what jean received, but we even have reports and articles of encouragement for jws to go to cemeteries to look for people as well.".

NotFormer

Nathan, you're right, I know that a lot of JWs are decent people with a good moral compass. The trouble being highlighted here is that the "minority of uber-"spiritual" half-wits" can get noticed, in this day and age. It only takes one idiot to ruin it for everybody else. This bit of negative publicity is terrible for the majority of JWs who are not sociopaths. It may, however, be helpful in light of the inquiry into abuse in care being conducted by the NZ government. In that it is another blow to the WT claim that JWs are lovable cuddle-bunnies that never do anything wrong, and that if they do, it was never because their leaders told them to.

42

New meeting format

by ExBethelitenowPIMA in

just watched november broadcast very different order to the leaked agm .

be good if someone did a deep dive on the difference and why the changes?

i didn’t time the items but it should be easy to see if edited?.

NotFormer

In the old days it was easy to categorise the WT as a publishing company with an unpaid workforce, as opposed to a religion. Fundraising was through literature sales and the Theocratic Ministry School was the sales presentation course, with the Kingdom Hall being the distribution warehouse. Now that the old business model has been jettisoned, they are having to become more like a religion. All available evidence suggests that even the higher ups in the WT really have no idea what the final product will look like, or even what they want it to look like.

2

Static Electricity

by BoogerMan in

i experienced a situation involving static electricity with a girl i dated years ago.. whenever our finger tips touched, we both got a little shock.

but when i kissed her, her eyes lit up!

.

NotFormer

I was getting occasional shocks from patting my cats during winter

6

Tracy Chapman & John Mellencamp

by BoogerMan in

did tracy chapman "sample" john mellencamp's song for her big hit, "fast car"?.

@ 47 secs.

- 55 secs.

NotFormer

Sometimes these claims have merit. As an old Beach Boys fan, I was shocked when I first heard Chuck Berry's Sweet Little Sixteen. And it's hard to argue against the similarity between My Sweet Lord and He's So Fine. I'm not as convinced on Ghostbusters and I Need A New Drug, but a judge was persuaded.

But a bar or two of a song being similar to another song? Some people have too much time on their hands 😔.

22

Former Jehovah's Witness admits: We targeted grief-stricken as 'ripe fruit'

by Londo111 in

http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/news/80708572/former-jehovahs-witness-admits-we-targeted-grief-stricken-as-ripe-fruit.

jehovah's witnesses target grief and see the recently bereaved as "ripe fruit" for conversion, a former elder of the faith says.. vince and michele tylor spoke out after reading the story of wellington woman jean sergent-shadbolt, who received a handwritten letter from a jehovah's witness three months to the day after her step-cousin, friend and flatmate died.. a current senior elder of the faith says it has no policy to target grieving, and those who do so are acting on their own initiative.

however, he concedes such people may feel guided by jehovah's witness literature.. but vince tylor said he knew of members who would trawl though obituaries to find grieving people, or visit cemeteries.. "not only do we see watchtower printed material suggesting and supporting writing letters from obituaries such as what jean received, but we even have reports and articles of encouragement for jws to go to cemeteries to look for people as well.".

NotFormer

The big question is: where were the loving, compassionate JWs when Lexie was sick and deteriorating, and the husband could have used some help?

42

New meeting format

by ExBethelitenowPIMA in

just watched november broadcast very different order to the leaked agm .

be good if someone did a deep dive on the difference and why the changes?

i didn’t time the items but it should be easy to see if edited?.

NotFormer

"most Witnesses, including elders and even the one assigned to 'oversee' the arrangement still call it the "school", even though the Org has clearly steered away from that word, probably out of fear of liability"

It always comes down to money or liability, with the WT. They love ordering people about, even unto the death, as in the case of blood transfusions, but they refuse to accept responsibility for those orders, so they lie about it. And then they refer to themselves as "The Truth"! 🙄

17

Punishment and control: the secret handbook that rules a religion

by Tahoe in

this article is behind a paywall: https://www.smh.com.au/national/punishment-and-control-the-secret-handbook-that-rules-a-religion-20231026-p5ef9z.html.

a herald investigation has uncovered disturbing practices within the jehovah’s witness church, including the systems for discipline, punishment and control in a secret rule book for church “elders”.. australian children in the jehovah’s witnesses religion are being trained to avoid life-saving blood transfusions and parents are being coached to thwart court processes that may prevent their children from dying, internal church documents reveal.. an investigation following an inquest into the death of jehovah’s witness heather winchester, who died in newcastle after refusing a blood transfusion, has uncovered disturbing practices within the australian church, including the systems for discipline, punishment and control contained in the secret rule book for church “elders”.. the church’s blood transfusion ban forces people to choose between risking death by refusing treatment or being “shunned” – cut off from family and friends under the church’s strict rules – according to 16 former and current members of the church interviewed and the testimony of many others.. .

some of them believe it has cost hundreds of lives in australia.. “i think it’s truly dangerous for children, who are not old enough to vote or drive, to be coached about how to convince a judge or doctors about a decision that is potentially life-threatening,” said fleur hawes, 32, a solicitor who escaped the religion and is speaking out for the first time.. in public, the jehovah’s witnesses’ leadership downplays the impacts of its ban on blood transfusions, which are based on interpretations of bible passages that say christians should not eat blood.. .

NotFormer

DOC: "This is why any (US) medical institution should refuse to hire any JW because it is clear that they have directions from their Religious Leaders to violate their oath of confidentiality and thus violate HIPPA law. Of course, it is the hospital, clinic, or physician's office who will be sued and (along with their insurer) suffer the financial consequences."

The trouble with this is that it flies in the face of religious freedom and also antidiscrimination legislation. You can't, as an employer, ask what religion a person belongs to. You might find sneaky ways to ask that question, if you can find plausible ways to raise them. The trouble is that a JW with finely tuned radar may pick up the discriminatory nature of the questioning. And the questions will come across as awkward. "We are a very social bunch and love to celebrate each others birthdays and holidays at morning tea. Would you see yourself fitting in?" "Are there any special medical considerations we would need to take into account, should you be unconscious and we need to call an ambulance?"

Does anyone here have any better suggestions for those sorts of questions?