NotFormer

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Posts by NotFormer

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  47

  Norway

  by St George of England in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  so the wt society is going to contest the recent norway ruling.. jehovah’s witnesses to appeal unconstitutional ruling in norway (jw.org).

  their true colours are shown in the statement: "the decision to deregister jehovah’s witnesses denies us the financial aid and other benefits that the government provides to over 700 registered religious communities in the country.

  additional consequences include losing the right to appoint and authorize ministers of jehovah’s witnesses as officiants for weddings.".

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  NotFormer

  I'm not so optimistic about the ECHR simply ratifying the Norwegian government's decision. Two points, courts are generally very conservative and this appeal will come from a position of freedom of religion, a basic human right. ECHR has "human rights" in its name.

  Point two: Norway's decision is an outlier. No other European governments are showing any signs of doing what Norway did. A European Commission is more likely to reflect attitudes of the broader European community, rather than the one country that decided it had had enough of the WT's shenanigans.

  One of my personal mottos is "Never go to law". Most court cases are a coin toss. Unless you are really sure you're going to win, don't take the chance. The WT should follow that advice and not appeal to the ECHR. They should take their medicine, take the "L" and keep softening their approach to disfellowshipping.
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  18

  Alternative Military Service is Now OK

  by Sea Breeze in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  but i wonder: how many jw's went to prison during the years that the wt did not allow them to perform community service as an alternative to military service?.

  anyone care to take a stab at the numbers?.

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  NotFormer

  It is my understanding that in the USA conscientious objectors were offered non military service in lieu. Jobs working in civilian hospitals, national parks and other employment that couldn't be considered helpful towards any "war effort". Yet the WT powers-that-be of the time wanted their martyrs. Apparently they also wanted fear within the ranks of young JW men. Recruiting for Bethel was extremely easy when it was seen as a way out of almost certain imprisonment should a draftee follow the WT's secret instructions* on how to handle the draft.

  *Terry's story gives the context behind this. Terry was told how to approach the issue by the congregational oversight, but was told that he was not to tell the court that he was following their instructions.
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  47

  Norway

  by St George of England in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  so the wt society is going to contest the recent norway ruling.. jehovah’s witnesses to appeal unconstitutional ruling in norway (jw.org).

  their true colours are shown in the statement: "the decision to deregister jehovah’s witnesses denies us the financial aid and other benefits that the government provides to over 700 registered religious communities in the country.

  additional consequences include losing the right to appoint and authorize ministers of jehovah’s witnesses as officiants for weddings.".

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  NotFormer

  I remember seeing a clip of a GB member whinging about the Norway decision. I wonder what the GB meetings were like about that. Would they have been outraged? Extremely offended? Did they even once question their own purported infallibility?
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  47

  Norway

  by St George of England in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  so the wt society is going to contest the recent norway ruling.. jehovah’s witnesses to appeal unconstitutional ruling in norway (jw.org).

  their true colours are shown in the statement: "the decision to deregister jehovah’s witnesses denies us the financial aid and other benefits that the government provides to over 700 registered religious communities in the country.

  additional consequences include losing the right to appoint and authorize ministers of jehovah’s witnesses as officiants for weddings.".

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  NotFormer

  "I always figured it’s because they know the statement is correct and resent it.

  (Now watch me get one. 😏)"

  I deliberately upvoted this post. 😉
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  47

  Norway

  by St George of England in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  so the wt society is going to contest the recent norway ruling.. jehovah’s witnesses to appeal unconstitutional ruling in norway (jw.org).

  their true colours are shown in the statement: "the decision to deregister jehovah’s witnesses denies us the financial aid and other benefits that the government provides to over 700 registered religious communities in the country.

  additional consequences include losing the right to appoint and authorize ministers of jehovah’s witnesses as officiants for weddings.".

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  NotFormer

  They could take the high road, of course. Approach the government department that decided to deregister them, ask them what needs to change to be re-registered, change it and ask to be re-registered. Simple.

  But WT loves taking governments to court, trying to make said governments look like fools in the process. Dem days is over. Governments are getting tired of religious freedom being used as a cover for tax fraud and crappy behaviour.
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  10

  Inaccuracies regarding pagan origins

  by AEnEm in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  easter and christmas have pagan origins.

  many of us were told that since birth.

  the evidence?

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  NotFormer

  Whenever Hislop is a source, you can be reasonably sure that you have a poor argument on your hands. Jack Chick's "Alberto" series of comics relied heavily on it, mainly to prove Catholicism's pagan origins.

  In certain circles you'll see the "Easter=Eostre=Ishtar" assertion.

  As pointed out above by the OP, the true origin of the term probably relates to a timetable, and not a goddess.
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  37

  They Came To The Door!

  by NotFormer in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  going door to door with their "memorial" invitation.

  "so you can pass the emblems but nobody partakes?

  them: "we can explain who is to partake".. me: "all jesus' followers".

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  NotFormer

  If it had been you at the door that day, Earnest, I'm sure we could have had a very interesting discussion 🦉👄🤝, if I had remembered that verse. However, it wasn't you, it was a couple who seemed nowhere near as prepared for discussion as previous generations of JWs (see further lamentations on that subject above). It's a pity; I miss the days when you could have a meaty, substantial argument, er, I mean, "animated discussion" at the door*.

  As it was, I was totally unprepared myself. I saw a well dressed couple** knocking on nextdoor's door. The man was wearing a tie and had a piece of paper in his hand (which I now know to have been the memorial invitation). I thought that they were perhaps detectives or some sort of court officials, possibly serving a summons. When they headed towards our gate, I realised who they were and had to quickly struggle into a pair of pants***.

  *When I'm in the right frame of mind, that is. It doesn't always happen that way. Neither time I've had JWs at the door since I moved here were ideal for me. I was fortunately in a better state of health this second time, but to no avail. That whole encounter can't have been more than two to three minutes long. That being said, I've never slammed the door 🚪 on a JW. Both of these last two times, it has been the JWs who have slammed the door 🚪 on me, figuratively speaking. They were happy to get out the gate and close it behind them.

  **This was before the relaxing of the dress standards; how time flies!

  ***Dress standards at my house are even more relaxed than those at the Kingdom Hall****.

  ****This is an attempt at humour; even I know that Kingdom Hall dress standards haven't been relaxed that much! 😱
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  35

  Beware of someone who will "cry wolf"!

  by redsetter2 in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  the following is an excerpt from one of aesop's fables.. the boy who cried "wolf"!.

  there once was a shepherd boy who was bored as he sat on the hillside watching the village sheep.

  to amuse himself he took a great breath and sang out, "wolf!

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  NotFormer

  I wouldn't call it a witch-hunt. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. It'll take a while for that extraordinary evidence to filter through, if it exists. You can't blame people for exercising caution.
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  37

  They Came To The Door!

  by NotFormer in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  going door to door with their "memorial" invitation.

  "so you can pass the emblems but nobody partakes?

  them: "we can explain who is to partake".. me: "all jesus' followers".

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  NotFormer

  I was just thinking about this thread and realised how rusty I am. I forgot to try bringing up this verse:

  1 Corinthians 11:26 (NWT ) "For whenever you eat this loaf and drink this cup, you keep proclaiming the death of the Lord, until he comes."

  'If the "coming" (parousia) happened in 1914, why the heck are you still doing the memorial, anyway??'

  Not that it would have stimulated any more discussion; they were already halfway out of the gate anyway.
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  7

  What is the Best Way to Reach Out to My JW Brother?

  by ApostolicJesus93 in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  i am not a jw, nor have i ever been.

  i'm an apostolic pentecostal.

  i do have an older half-brother who is about 13 years my senior.

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  NotFormer

  While I dislike the NWT, you're right: it's the bible whose wording he will be familiar with. Outside of several verses that the WT "tampered with*" to conform with their doctrines, it is usually adequate.

  The trouble I see is that the 17 years of non-communication has become habitual. He probably doesn't see you as family any more and feels no obligation towards your father or anyone else. Remember, "worldly" people (anyone not a JW) are condemned already. You could try using some biblical reasoning to reach out to him, but in his eyes you have no authority to be interpreting the Bible; that right belongs exclusively to the Governing Body in JW doctrine and practice.

  So yes, try and reach out. Perhaps you will be pleasantly surprised. Or perhaps not. Be prepared, either way.

  * This is the opinion of some, and is not meant to stir up that debate in this thread. There are plenty of other threads along those lines. The important thing is to address the OP's request for help reaching out to estranged JW family.