On the "born again" issue, I looked through some old posts. It appears that only the "anointed" 144000 could claim to be born again. So what I was told by WT outsiders in the 80s was probably a misapprehension on their part.
NotFormer
JoinedPosts by NotFormer
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9
Lessons in Deception
by Sea Breeze ini recently came across a piece of historical trivia: italian singer adriano celentano released a song in the 70's with complete nonsense lyrics meant to mimic american english, to prove italians would love any english song.
it was a huge international hit!.
it made me think how the wt simillarly used a lot of stage props and nonsensical religious sounding words to fool millions into destroying their families and futures.
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9
Lessons in Deception
by Sea Breeze ini recently came across a piece of historical trivia: italian singer adriano celentano released a song in the 70's with complete nonsense lyrics meant to mimic american english, to prove italians would love any english song.
it was a huge international hit!.
it made me think how the wt simillarly used a lot of stage props and nonsensical religious sounding words to fool millions into destroying their families and futures.
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NotFormer
I thought "undeserved kindness" was their term for "grace". But it's a great example of the way they change things for the sake of difference.
As for the the video clip, some of it sounds kind of English; it's quite an amusing exercise. I remember a lot of stuff from the 60s and 70s where foreign languages were represented. They never got someone who actually spoke a language to coach the actors in what to say, but would just rattle off something that they thought sounded like the language. As much as I loved Scooby Doo Where Are You, I always cringe at the bit in the episode Mystery Mask Mix-up where Don Messick (Scooby's voice) is supposedly speaking Chinese (Cantonese?) to a bloke in a Chinese laundry in San Francisco, and he's just making a lot of Chinese sounding noises. 🙄
I suppose that all aligns with your original point, that the WT tried to create a religious "sound" that was unique from the the other religions of the time. So the WT buzzwords are just them making a lot of religious sounding noises.
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9
Lessons in Deception
by Sea Breeze ini recently came across a piece of historical trivia: italian singer adriano celentano released a song in the 70's with complete nonsense lyrics meant to mimic american english, to prove italians would love any english song.
it was a huge international hit!.
it made me think how the wt simillarly used a lot of stage props and nonsensical religious sounding words to fool millions into destroying their families and futures.
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NotFormer
They found themselves in a dilemma whereby they wanted to appear religious, while not being identifiably like any religion. Over the years they have had to sometimes walk that back to appear more mainstream. It is my understanding that they rejected the label "Christian" , until they felt the need to change that stance. I heard that they were allowed to claim to be born again when mainstream protestants challenged them on this on the doorstep (that may not be true, it was something I was told by fellow Pentecostals during the 80s. Is there any WT ruling on claiming to be "born again"?
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9
Lessons in Deception
by Sea Breeze ini recently came across a piece of historical trivia: italian singer adriano celentano released a song in the 70's with complete nonsense lyrics meant to mimic american english, to prove italians would love any english song.
it was a huge international hit!.
it made me think how the wt simillarly used a lot of stage props and nonsensical religious sounding words to fool millions into destroying their families and futures.
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NotFormer
I find the WT buzzwords to be fascinating. The one that bemuses me most is "fine". As in Jehovah's fine arrangement ("arrangement" is another buzzword that they seem to love peppering things with). Even to the point where Jesus is the "fine shepherd" (!) in their rendition of John 10:11 and 10:14! They can't even bring themselves to call Jesus "good"??
They started out differentiating between themselves and mainstream Christianity by rejecting standard terms, and having to find substitutes. So, information boards instead of bulletin boards, talks instead of sermons, all their different terms for office holders to not sound like they have a clergical hierarchy, Kingdom Hall instead of church and so on.
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Former Jehovah's Witness admits: We targeted grief-stricken as 'ripe fruit'
by Londo111 inhttp://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/news/80708572/former-jehovahs-witness-admits-we-targeted-grief-stricken-as-ripe-fruit.
jehovah's witnesses target grief and see the recently bereaved as "ripe fruit" for conversion, a former elder of the faith says.. vince and michele tylor​ spoke out after reading the story of wellington woman jean sergent-shadbolt, who received a handwritten letter from a jehovah's witness three months to the day after her step-cousin, friend and flatmate died.. a current senior elder of the faith says it has no policy to target grieving, and those who do so are acting on their own initiative.
however, he concedes such people may feel guided by jehovah's witness literature.. but vince tylor said he knew of members who would trawl though obituaries to find grieving people, or visit cemeteries.. "not only do we see watchtower printed material suggesting and supporting writing letters from obituaries such as what jean received, but we even have reports and articles of encouragement for jws to go to cemeteries to look for people as well.".
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NotFormer
Nathan, you're right, I know that a lot of JWs are decent people with a good moral compass. The trouble being highlighted here is that the "minority of uber-"spiritual" half-wits" can get noticed, in this day and age. It only takes one idiot to ruin it for everybody else. This bit of negative publicity is terrible for the majority of JWs who are not sociopaths. It may, however, be helpful in light of the inquiry into abuse in care being conducted by the NZ government. In that it is another blow to the WT claim that JWs are lovable cuddle-bunnies that never do anything wrong, and that if they do, it was never because their leaders told them to.
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New meeting format
by ExBethelitenowPIMA injust watched november broadcast very different order to the leaked agm .
be good if someone did a deep dive on the difference and why the changes?
i didn’t time the items but it should be easy to see if edited?.
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NotFormer
In the old days it was easy to categorise the WT as a publishing company with an unpaid workforce, as opposed to a religion. Fundraising was through literature sales and the Theocratic Ministry School was the sales presentation course, with the Kingdom Hall being the distribution warehouse. Now that the old business model has been jettisoned, they are having to become more like a religion. All available evidence suggests that even the higher ups in the WT really have no idea what the final product will look like, or even what they want it to look like.
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Static Electricity
by BoogerMan ini experienced a situation involving static electricity with a girl i dated years ago.. whenever our finger tips touched, we both got a little shock.
but when i kissed her, her eyes lit up!
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NotFormer
I was getting occasional shocks from patting my cats during winter
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Tracy Chapman & John Mellencamp
by BoogerMan indid tracy chapman "sample" john mellencamp's song for her big hit, "fast car"?.
@ 47 secs.
- 55 secs.
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NotFormer
Sometimes these claims have merit. As an old Beach Boys fan, I was shocked when I first heard Chuck Berry's Sweet Little Sixteen. And it's hard to argue against the similarity between My Sweet Lord and He's So Fine. I'm not as convinced on Ghostbusters and I Need A New Drug, but a judge was persuaded.
But a bar or two of a song being similar to another song? Some people have too much time on their hands 😔.
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Former Jehovah's Witness admits: We targeted grief-stricken as 'ripe fruit'
by Londo111 inhttp://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/news/80708572/former-jehovahs-witness-admits-we-targeted-grief-stricken-as-ripe-fruit.
jehovah's witnesses target grief and see the recently bereaved as "ripe fruit" for conversion, a former elder of the faith says.. vince and michele tylor​ spoke out after reading the story of wellington woman jean sergent-shadbolt, who received a handwritten letter from a jehovah's witness three months to the day after her step-cousin, friend and flatmate died.. a current senior elder of the faith says it has no policy to target grieving, and those who do so are acting on their own initiative.
however, he concedes such people may feel guided by jehovah's witness literature.. but vince tylor said he knew of members who would trawl though obituaries to find grieving people, or visit cemeteries.. "not only do we see watchtower printed material suggesting and supporting writing letters from obituaries such as what jean received, but we even have reports and articles of encouragement for jws to go to cemeteries to look for people as well.".
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NotFormer
The big question is: where were the loving, compassionate JWs when Lexie was sick and deteriorating, and the husband could have used some help?
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42
New meeting format
by ExBethelitenowPIMA injust watched november broadcast very different order to the leaked agm .
be good if someone did a deep dive on the difference and why the changes?
i didn’t time the items but it should be easy to see if edited?.
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NotFormer
"most Witnesses, including elders and even the one assigned to 'oversee' the arrangement still call it the "school", even though the Org has clearly steered away from that word, probably out of fear of liability"
It always comes down to money or liability, with the WT. They love ordering people about, even unto the death, as in the case of blood transfusions, but they refuse to accept responsibility for those orders, so they lie about it. And then they refer to themselves as "The Truth"! 🙄