NotFormer

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Posts by NotFormer

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  49

  Will the GB Eventually "observe" Tithing?

  by Sea Breeze in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  found this on fb from the recent losch talk.

  time for a new business model?.

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  NotFormer

  "I’ve long felt that they should adapt the Revelation Climax book.

  It’d make Left Behind seem quaint by comparison"

  Vidiot, I'd totally go to see that! If we were on the same continent, I'd shout you your popcorn! 😁👍
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  29

  No Reporting of Time, Tithing is OK, Now WT Teaches a "Rapture" - What's Next?

  by Sea Breeze in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  those who will be taken to heaven will first need to be “changed, in a moment, in the blink of an eye, during the last trumpet.” therefore, while we do not use the term “rapture” here because of its wrong connotation, the remaining faithful anointed will be gathered together in an instant of time.

  - the watchtower—study edition | july 2015. ok so they refuse to use the word "rapture".

  kinda like they refuse to use the word church and clergy (except when it suits their purposes in court cases).

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  NotFormer

  Even the "mainstream" "doctrine" of the rapture is cobbled together from a few unconnected bible verses. The bit in Thessalonians, plus the passages in Matthew and Luke about one being taken and one being left behind. Sometimes they'll try to find something in Revelation that hints at it. Among the rapture believers there is fierce argument about when the rapture will occur, whether before the Great Tribulation (Pre-Tribulation), during (Mid-Tribulation) or after (Post-Tribulation). Some will condemn you to Hell if you have the wrong view of when the rapture will occur. I believe Texe Marrs was one of those (he was post-trib). The late Tim Lahaye (The Left Behind series) was pre-trib. The different timings are related to the various prophecies, interpreted to be about the GT, featuring a period of seven years and an intermediate period of three and a half years (long time JWs will be fully aware of those, I imagine).

  Back to the WT version. If the GB are now allowing for a rapture, are they pre, mid, or post-trib?
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  54

  What If The Tower Fell?

  by Big Dog in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  what if the truly unthinkable happened and the tower went down?

  perhaps the irs swooped in and claimed fraud and padlocked the headquarters and kingdom hall doors?

  or the gb took the money and ran to a nice non-extradition country to live out their years?

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  NotFormer

  "Carry on J-Dubb"

  Undoubtedly the worst Carry On movie ever made. Not even Sid James as Tony Morris could save it! Or was it Charles Hawtrey playing Morris? 🤔
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  9

  The 'Tower has no Face

  by NotFormer in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  just thinking about how the wt has evolved over the century of its existence.

  before the gb tricked knorr into making them the ones responsible for everything, the president at the time was very much the face of the society.

  after franz, it all became a bit nebulous as to who was in charge.. is the current situation more advantageous to the wt or less?.

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  NotFormer

  Just thinking about how the WT has evolved over the century of its existence. Before the GB tricked Knorr into making them the ones responsible for everything, the President at the time was very much the face of the Society. After Franz, it all became a bit nebulous as to who was in charge.

  Is the current situation more advantageous to the WT or less?
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  29

  No Reporting of Time, Tithing is OK, Now WT Teaches a "Rapture" - What's Next?

  by Sea Breeze in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  those who will be taken to heaven will first need to be “changed, in a moment, in the blink of an eye, during the last trumpet.” therefore, while we do not use the term “rapture” here because of its wrong connotation, the remaining faithful anointed will be gathered together in an instant of time.

  - the watchtower—study edition | july 2015. ok so they refuse to use the word "rapture".

  kinda like they refuse to use the word church and clergy (except when it suits their purposes in court cases).

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  NotFormer

  Interesting 🤔. Could they be paving the way for a heavenly destiny for all the faithful? They usually avoid talking about heaven and try to pump up the R&F with the pair-of-dice Erf scenario.

  The cynic in me says that it could be a way for the GB to explain the sudden absence of themselves and all the WT funds. 🙄
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  54

  What If The Tower Fell?

  by Big Dog in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  what if the truly unthinkable happened and the tower went down?

  perhaps the irs swooped in and claimed fraud and padlocked the headquarters and kingdom hall doors?

  or the gb took the money and ran to a nice non-extradition country to live out their years?

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  NotFormer

  It is a fascinating question, Big Dog. If the R&F suddenly couldn't even access the Kingdom Halls and all the Bethel branches were silent, what would they do? Would local elders try to make alternative arrangements for meetings and field service? What would field service be about, if not being fed with materials provided by Bethel?

  It would be pretty hard to argue that it's God's earthly organisation if it was suddenly not there anymore. I predict a new offshoot: Jehovah's Continuing Witnesses.

  Without COs applying pressure from Bethel, would the average BOE even bother to try to resurrect the organisation from the ashes?
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  54

  What If The Tower Fell?

  by Big Dog in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  what if the truly unthinkable happened and the tower went down?

  perhaps the irs swooped in and claimed fraud and padlocked the headquarters and kingdom hall doors?

  or the gb took the money and ran to a nice non-extradition country to live out their years?

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  NotFormer

  Big Dog, your two suggested scenarios suggest that they go out with a bang. If they do go down, it may be more with a whimper. It may collapse under its own weight from the internal pressure of paying out all the CSA settlements. Early indications are that they may be trying to look more like a mainstream denomination.

  The Worldwide Church of God went mainstream in the aftermath of Armstrong's death. But many groups splintered off, trying to adhere to the old ways and doctrines. I've recently noticed some obnoxiously aggressive anti mainstream Christianity ads by the UCG on YouTube lately. Even in the event of a complete meltdown, some faithful JWs will probably find some way to keep the torch burning.

  I'm just grateful that the WT never preached a doctrine of arming themselves against Armageddon, David Koresh style!
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  46

  What do you think?

  by Tahoe in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

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  NotFormer

  Ron.W.: "What an excellent summation. It really nails so much of the jw mindset."

  The first half of WT history is about them taking strong stances on various issues. The latter half is about them now facing the consequences of those strong stances and trying to distance themselves from those stances without admitting they were wrong in the first place.
  I wonder how those still alive who were alive during the first half feel today. The GB are among those. I wonder if in private moments they admit to themselves that it all seems to have gone terribly wrong.
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  49

  The ''dreaded'' birthday cake

  by RULES & REGULATIONS in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  the watchtower—study edition | september 2023. study article 39. let mildness be your strength.

  11 if a workmate asks, for example, why we do not celebrate birthdays, consider: could he be wondering whether we are allowed to have a good time?

  or might he feel that our position will dampen the company’s team spirit?

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  NotFormer

  I wonder if Rutherford crunched the numbers on holiday and birthday celebrations at Bethel and decided that it was costing "too much". He then justified his niggardly decision by creating a doctrine around it. Extending it beyond Bethel had the benefit of the rank and file having more to donate to Bethel. The social cost to millions of JWs since would never have mattered to such a man.
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  45

  How Do Jehovah's Witnesses View Education?

  by southyukon in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i have a question about this article.. https://www.jw.org/en/jehovahs-witnesses/faq/jw-education-school/.

  higher education can lead to moral and spiritual dangers.

  a bible proverb says: "the shrewd one sees the danger and conceals himself.

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  NotFormer

  "Damn, I wish I’d caught that.

  😎👍"

  Thanks, Man! I'm embarrassed to say, I was kind of proud of it when I wrote it. 🥺☺️

  The WT at times appears to be a study in paradoxes. Or in taking positions that boil down to being downright hypocritical. The higher education issue is one of the more prominent ones.

  I'm surprised that the WT never created its own primary/elementary school system. It would have made a lot of sense. The SDAs run their own schools for their kids. Religion based schools* even get partial funding from the government, here in Australia!

  I suppose the urgency of the message in the past persuaded them that they couldn't dedicate the kind of resources necessary. Plus Rutherford actively hated children and families. Children were seen as useless diverters of resources away from "the real work". And tertiary/higher education was probably seen as a similarly useless diversion.

  And in these and many other areas, they are seeing their chickens coming home to roost.

  *Like Catholic schools, etc.