the first mention i find in the wts publications is 1958. although the wts says the index goes from 1930 to 1985, nothing appears before 1958 a search only found by using the phrase "spiritual paradise" not in the index.
in 2015 there was a clarification of the phrase "of course, we should not conclude that the terms “spiritual paradise” and “spiritual temple” are the same.
the spiritual temple is god’s arrangement for true worship.".
'The other expression used to excuse this nonsense is : "It was our understanding at the time".................. utter Bollocks as well'
Did they ever adopt an "It is our understanding at this time" phrase, in the face of potentially fatal new doctrines? Kind of a CYA strategy. I suppose there were other phrases that meant "this looks voluntary, but woe betide if you do it/don't do it!"
caught this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ud7uob6zck4.
It's the old curse coming true: the GB has lived to see "interesting times"...
lett has announced in the latest video update that jehovah has dignified the brothers by now letting them to choose for themselves whether they want to have a beard or not -.
https://www.jw.org/en/news/region/global/2023-governing-body-update-8/.
this applies worldwide and to all brothers in any position..
ThomasMore - “…Brothers don’t fade because they want to grow a beard…”
Vidiot: "Nope, they grow a beard because they want to fade."
That's a good point.👍 It's a cheap, low risk approach.
As an outsider, I never quite understood why, since beards were so abhorrent, that growing one didn't kind of automatically lead to disfellowshipment. Not directly, but it seems to me to be a lost opportunity. A zealous BOE could see beard growing as the tip of an iceberg and simply Star Chamber and kangaroo court the bloke until they basically have the result they want.
What is the attitude of the organisation towards frequency of disfellowshipments within a congregation? Do they like lots of them? Does too many of them concern them. Is a CO likely to start asking questions if there are too few or too many?
https://nltimes.nl/2023/12/11/jehovahs-witnesses-suing-dutch-state-discrimination .
the jehovah’s witnesses have sued the dutch state for discrimination, the religious organization informed trouw.
they consider it discriminatory that the government investigated them, but no other religious organization, for their handling of sexual abuse cases.. utrecht university conducted the investigation involved, following publications in trouw in which sexual abuse victims within the jehovah’s witnesses described what happened to them, and published the results in january 2020. utrecht university concluded that 60 percent of sexual abuse victims were very critical of how the jehovah’s witnesses handled their cases, scoring the handling a 1 out of 10. many victims were traumatized by how things were handled, the researchers said.. sander dekker, then the minster for legal protection, ordered the investigation at parliament’s insistence because the jehovah’s witnesses failed to arrange an investigation themselves, as the catholic church did at the time with the deetman commission.. the jehovah’s witnesses cooperated in the utrecht university investigation but unsuccessfully tried to stop the publication of its results.
Unfortunately, you're right. The recent changes are indeed cosmetic at best. (Although the last minute conversion one is actually pretty major in some ways) And again, you're right, some of the major sticking points (blood, shunning, two witnesses etc.) represent too much of a change; policies like those have done so much damage to lives over the years that to jettison them at any time would be unworkable. There would be such incredible legal ramifications that it would be likely that the organisation could survive.
I'd love to see a government or two go after them over the blood policy. It's not just medical "advice": they force compliance on pain of death (disfellowshipment) and enforce it (HLC). They're practicing medicine without a licence.
https://nltimes.nl/2023/12/11/jehovahs-witnesses-suing-dutch-state-discrimination .
the jehovah’s witnesses have sued the dutch state for discrimination, the religious organization informed trouw.
they consider it discriminatory that the government investigated them, but no other religious organization, for their handling of sexual abuse cases.. utrecht university conducted the investigation involved, following publications in trouw in which sexual abuse victims within the jehovah’s witnesses described what happened to them, and published the results in january 2020. utrecht university concluded that 60 percent of sexual abuse victims were very critical of how the jehovah’s witnesses handled their cases, scoring the handling a 1 out of 10. many victims were traumatized by how things were handled, the researchers said.. sander dekker, then the minster for legal protection, ordered the investigation at parliament’s insistence because the jehovah’s witnesses failed to arrange an investigation themselves, as the catholic church did at the time with the deetman commission.. the jehovah’s witnesses cooperated in the utrecht university investigation but unsuccessfully tried to stop the publication of its results.
Vidiot: "Jeezus, Not…
…they make that many changes, they’d hardly even BE “Jehovah’s Witnesses” any more."
The funny thing is how much they have changed already. Numerous posts by people who left ages ago who don't even recognise it as the organisation that they left. And it isn't the same as it was when I used to have "animated discussions" at the door 25 years ago. Heck, back then, the rumour was that if you typed "1914" into the keypad at most Kingdom Halls, you had a good chance of disarming the alarm! 😱 Now, who even mentions 1914 anymore?
on february 22, 2023, anthony morris iii was officially removed from the governing body of jehovah's witnesses.
a few months later it was revealed that the watchtower bought him a house in lumberton, north carolina.. however, and correct me if i am wrong, since leaving the gb nobody has reported seeing tony attending jw meetings or participating in field service.
in fact nobody has reported seeing him anywhere, not even at a local liquor store.
Dagney, we'd all like to know what really happened. I think you're right about NDAs being involved. Even the Bethelites who might normally leak are being quiet, presumably because any leaks can be traced and punished. The lid is tightly on this one, so you're right, we may never know the truth about what really happened. A lot of people thought he may have left in disgrace, but others suggest it may have been more amicable: he was the last of the old guard that was standing in the way of reform, so they mutually agreed to a decent settlement to get him to step down.
Vidiot, the two houses are part of that incentive to get him to walk away quietly. The Judge had several residences where he lived, but never shared them with his wife. Maybe it's just a GB thing that us mere mortals would never understand. 🙄
on february 22, 2023, anthony morris iii was officially removed from the governing body of jehovah's witnesses.
a few months later it was revealed that the watchtower bought him a house in lumberton, north carolina.. however, and correct me if i am wrong, since leaving the gb nobody has reported seeing tony attending jw meetings or participating in field service.
in fact nobody has reported seeing him anywhere, not even at a local liquor store.
He joined the Peace Corps and is happily engaged in charitable outreach in West Africa
https://nltimes.nl/2023/12/11/jehovahs-witnesses-suing-dutch-state-discrimination .
the jehovah’s witnesses have sued the dutch state for discrimination, the religious organization informed trouw.
they consider it discriminatory that the government investigated them, but no other religious organization, for their handling of sexual abuse cases.. utrecht university conducted the investigation involved, following publications in trouw in which sexual abuse victims within the jehovah’s witnesses described what happened to them, and published the results in january 2020. utrecht university concluded that 60 percent of sexual abuse victims were very critical of how the jehovah’s witnesses handled their cases, scoring the handling a 1 out of 10. many victims were traumatized by how things were handled, the researchers said.. sander dekker, then the minster for legal protection, ordered the investigation at parliament’s insistence because the jehovah’s witnesses failed to arrange an investigation themselves, as the catholic church did at the time with the deetman commission.. the jehovah’s witnesses cooperated in the utrecht university investigation but unsuccessfully tried to stop the publication of its results.
Back in the glory days, winning court cases against overreaching governments was a good look, and among the ranks, I imagine it was easy to believe that they were on the winning ("Jehovah's") side. But now they are seen as losing more often than not. And the new environment of losing often is in the GB's chickens coming home to roost, the doctrinal distinctives that fly in the face of basic human decency.
We all know what they should be doing, the things that they stubbornly refuse to embrace. Sure, keep the blood doctrine, but make it truly a conscience issue, without repercussions such as disfellowshipping or forced disassociation. And encourage JWs to go straight to the police at the slightest whiff of CSA matters, without requiring the involvement of the elders at all. And kill the two witnesses rule. Stop pressuring minors to become members, then shunning them. Make baptism something that can only be done at 18; introduce some watered down version for minors, some way they can signify their intent to eventually be baptised that doesn't carry the risk of disfellowshipment if it doesn't all work out.
by the great spike milligan:.
https://youtu.be/9b7zlvryzbe?si=hgdlnyeur6serads.
"We're seeking refuge from the police; they're persecuting us because of our beliefs".
"What do you believe?"
"We believe that you've got a lot of money in this house!"
by the great spike milligan:.
https://youtu.be/9b7zlvryzbe?si=hgdlnyeur6serads.
By the great Spike Milligan:
