NotFormer

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Posts by NotFormer

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  2

  G.B.'s fantasy about "heavenly power"

  by BoogerMan in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  matthew 20:9-12 - "when the 11th-hour men came, all believers in christ each received everlasting life on earth.

  came, they assumed that they would receive more and become immortal kings in heaven, but they too were paid with everlasting life on earth.

  11 on receiving it, they began to complain against the master of the house 12 and said, ‘these last men didn't run the org; still you made them equal to us.

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  NotFormer

  Were they* ever in the vineyard in the first place? 🙄

  *The GB.
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  26

  ARTICLE: Jehovah’s Witnesses investing more than $50M on Woodbury project

  by AndersonsInfo in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  https://libn.com/2024/03/04/jehovahs-witnesses-investing-more-than-50m-on-woodbury-project/.

  long island business news.

  march 4, 2024. the christian congregation of jehovah’s witnesses, which bought the former geico property in woodbury for $27 million in dec. 2022, plans to spend at least another $23 million to build an assembly hall and two support buildings on about half of the site.

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  NotFormer

  "...a 52,400-square-foot assembly hall..."

  What is the intended seating capacity?

  Do they expect to ever see it full? How far is Woodbury from everything else?

  Edited: okay it's not that far, and the hall is for seating 2100. I see that it's near LEGO land, an amusement park and a renaissance fair on the map. Were I a tourist in the area, I know where I 'd be headed. Hint: not to the JW assembly hall at Woodbury.
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  30

  Internal Watchtower Statistics Re: Disfellowshipping and Shunning

  by NotFormer in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  does the wt have a person/department/section tasked with compiling data and analysing it statistically.

  or have they started doing something like that now that they are hiring external consultancies?.

  i ask the question because i'm wondering if such studies and statistical analysis would show any link between the harshness of the disfellowshipping policy as it is applied and the dropout rate of people within the organisation who have just had enough.. in previous threads it has been pointed out that the old approach isn't effective any more.

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  NotFormer

  Slidin Fast: There are more exes than current members now

  "Is this a substantiated fact or another speculation?"

  Okay, another common assertion made here, and you're right, it's probably more hyperbolic than factual, now that you mention it. Shall we say instead "There are now a lot of exJWs out there to provide support for those who might feel the need to leave"?
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  30

  Internal Watchtower Statistics Re: Disfellowshipping and Shunning

  by NotFormer in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  does the wt have a person/department/section tasked with compiling data and analysing it statistically.

  or have they started doing something like that now that they are hiring external consultancies?.

  i ask the question because i'm wondering if such studies and statistical analysis would show any link between the harshness of the disfellowshipping policy as it is applied and the dropout rate of people within the organisation who have just had enough.. in previous threads it has been pointed out that the old approach isn't effective any more.

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  NotFormer

  nicolaou: "Claiming such as a fact because you "believe it" is misleading and dishonest."

  I was actually trying to be sarcastic, and a bit tongue in cheek, but the dry media of pure text didn't convey it very well. FWIW, I no longer believe it to be a fact*, having had the opposite pointed out. I hereby retract that assertion that I made in the original post. I wish I hadn't written it in the first place, knowing what I now do know.

  *I believed it at first due to having read several posts that made that assertion as though it were a fact.
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  30

  Internal Watchtower Statistics Re: Disfellowshipping and Shunning

  by NotFormer in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  does the wt have a person/department/section tasked with compiling data and analysing it statistically.

  or have they started doing something like that now that they are hiring external consultancies?.

  i ask the question because i'm wondering if such studies and statistical analysis would show any link between the harshness of the disfellowshipping policy as it is applied and the dropout rate of people within the organisation who have just had enough.. in previous threads it has been pointed out that the old approach isn't effective any more.

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  NotFormer

  joe134cd, that's a good thing to point out. One problem is: from what we've seen over the years that the leadership seem to be very naive and foolish. An argument against the outside consultant theory might be that the echo chamber environment of Bethel might never allow the thought to be entertained: "We could do with a fresh set of eyes to look at this". They believe that they are Jehovah's channel and his direction, as decided by them, is sufficient.

  But the other side of the coin is that we outsiders see that they could do with that fresh set of eyes, and therefore we assume that they may be wise enough to engage them. Vienne may be right; it could be wishful thinking on our part.

  It doesn't change the fact that the current state of affairs within the Jehovah's Witnesses is a dog's breakfast, and they need all the help they can get to right the ship.
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  30

  Internal Watchtower Statistics Re: Disfellowshipping and Shunning

  by NotFormer in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  does the wt have a person/department/section tasked with compiling data and analysing it statistically.

  or have they started doing something like that now that they are hiring external consultancies?.

  i ask the question because i'm wondering if such studies and statistical analysis would show any link between the harshness of the disfellowshipping policy as it is applied and the dropout rate of people within the organisation who have just had enough.. in previous threads it has been pointed out that the old approach isn't effective any more.

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  NotFormer

  "I'm educating a simpleton. Alas"

  Enough with the insults, dude.

  I used one poorly worded sentence. I have been led to believe by previous posts that the outside consultants were an established fact. I see now that such is not the case. Does learning from mistakes make a person a simpleton?

  I agree that I indulged in faulty logic trying to stop my original questions and thoughts from being derailed. I retract the original assertion based on new information and advice. I'm sorry I got a faulty "fact" mixed up in my original premise.
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  30

  Internal Watchtower Statistics Re: Disfellowshipping and Shunning

  by NotFormer in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  does the wt have a person/department/section tasked with compiling data and analysing it statistically.

  or have they started doing something like that now that they are hiring external consultancies?.

  i ask the question because i'm wondering if such studies and statistical analysis would show any link between the harshness of the disfellowshipping policy as it is applied and the dropout rate of people within the organisation who have just had enough.. in previous threads it has been pointed out that the old approach isn't effective any more.

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  NotFormer

  I wrote it as fact, because I believe it to be fact, based on the educated guesses, i.e. speculation, of many here. IMO, if you like, it's a fact, just as in your unbacked-by-facts opinion, it isn't. You say yourself, you've seen no evidence. That doesn't mean that the outside consultations aren't happening. Absence of proof isn't proof of absence.

  The questions raised in the first post still stand.
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  30

  Internal Watchtower Statistics Re: Disfellowshipping and Shunning

  by NotFormer in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  does the wt have a person/department/section tasked with compiling data and analysing it statistically.

  or have they started doing something like that now that they are hiring external consultancies?.

  i ask the question because i'm wondering if such studies and statistical analysis would show any link between the harshness of the disfellowshipping policy as it is applied and the dropout rate of people within the organisation who have just had enough.. in previous threads it has been pointed out that the old approach isn't effective any more.

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  NotFormer

  Nice shilling for the Borg, Vienne. I only mentioned that as part of some of the current speculation about the WTs direction. I even used the word "speculation" in the body of my post. We can't know what they're doing in secret, so we can only speculate.

  Now, can we get back to actually discussing the points I raised?

  slimboyfat, given your posts demonstrating that attrition is happening across the board in Christian denominations, do you think that the WT could filter out that background noise from their statistics, and figure out what policies of their own might contribute to the decline which is obviously concerning them enough for them to be changing rules?
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  30

  Internal Watchtower Statistics Re: Disfellowshipping and Shunning

  by NotFormer in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  does the wt have a person/department/section tasked with compiling data and analysing it statistically.

  or have they started doing something like that now that they are hiring external consultancies?.

  i ask the question because i'm wondering if such studies and statistical analysis would show any link between the harshness of the disfellowshipping policy as it is applied and the dropout rate of people within the organisation who have just had enough.. in previous threads it has been pointed out that the old approach isn't effective any more.

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  NotFormer

  Does the WT have a person/department/section tasked with compiling data and analysing it statistically. Or have they started doing something like that now that they are hiring external consultancies?

  I ask the question because I'm wondering if such studies and statistical analysis would show any link between the harshness of the disfellowshipping policy as it is applied and the dropout rate of people within the organisation who have just had enough.

  In previous threads it has been pointed out that the old approach isn't effective any more. There are more exes than current members now and there is support for those who flee. Unlike Logan's Run, Sanctuary does exist outside the WT city (or "Ark", if you prefer). So, the tighter they squeeze in trying to crack down on dissent, the more people they squeeze out. The speculation has been that they have been slightly NERFing the disfellowshipping practices because this is beginning to become apparent to the management.

  So is this correlation showing up in whatever statistics they keep?
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  37

  They Came To The Door!

  by NotFormer in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  going door to door with their "memorial" invitation.

  "so you can pass the emblems but nobody partakes?

  them: "we can explain who is to partake".. me: "all jesus' followers".

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  NotFormer

  Gordon, you have an enormous set of cojones! 😱 I could never do that!

  I remember a bit more of the conversation. About the Lord's supper, I quoted Jesus ' command "This do in remembrance of me". The bloke said "And who was he talking to?" That's when I said what I said above. He made a beeline for the gate and left his wife holding the bag. The remaining dribs and drabs of conversation were with her.

  So, yes, they are not the confident debaters they once were, in my recent experience.