Posts by NotFormer

30

Internal Watchtower Statistics Re: Disfellowshipping and Shunning

by NotFormer in

does the wt have a person/department/section tasked with compiling data and analysing it statistically.

or have they started doing something like that now that they are hiring external consultancies?.

i ask the question because i'm wondering if such studies and statistical analysis would show any link between the harshness of the disfellowshipping policy as it is applied and the dropout rate of people within the organisation who have just had enough.. in previous threads it has been pointed out that the old approach isn't effective any more.

NotFormer

Vidiot: "I use this:

😏

Seems to work most of the time."

You pull that off so well, I wouldn't dare try emulating you! 😉

"IMO, the recent attempts at appearing more mainstream do suggest that alleged insiders’ reports of outside consultants (and the related dismissal of Uncle Tony) are indeed legitimate."

Given that the original question was about crunching the numbers in the WT files, and the WT's stance on higher education would suggest a dearth of number crunchers at Bethel*, should they decide that they want to do that, they might find themselves in the position of needing to engage the help of outsiders. It is not unreasonable to wonder if they may have yielded to that temptation in the many areas where they may find themselves deficient. However, as pointed out in this thread, there is not a lot of real evidence that they are in the habit of engaging outside consultants**.

*The small pool of tertiary educated JWs to draw on due to their stance higher education is pretty well established as fact. There are exceptions, people who decide to get a degree against WT advice, but they are enough of a rarity to be the subject of many a thread***. And, more often than not (I'm now trespassing back into the area of speculation rather than concrete fact), they tend to become exes and may well end up here!

**I read on another thread that the WT has engaged the services of a legal firm that helped the Catholic church with their CSA cases. Is that an established fact?

***And it is said that the WT will send favoured Bethelites to university to get the education they need to function in certain roles. No-one**** ever said that the WT is above pragmatism in the face of principle. "Hypocrisy" might be too strong a word, and perhaps the subject of a different thread. And, of course, many such threads exist.

****This is hyperbolic and sarcastic in nature.

8

Albert Delmont Jones

by vienne in

jones was a principal investor in the knickerbocker bank of new york city.

there was an earlier and defunct bank of the same name.

the bank issued its own currency, a common practice at the time.

NotFormer

Who was he, and what's the interest?

2

G.B.'s fantasy about "heavenly power"

by BoogerMan in

matthew 20:9-12 - "when the 11th-hour men came, all believers in christ each received everlasting life on earth.

came, they assumed that they would receive more and become immortal kings in heaven, but they too were paid with everlasting life on earth.

11 on receiving it, they began to complain against the master of the house 12 and said, ‘these last men didn't run the org; still you made them equal to us.

NotFormer

Were they* ever in the vineyard in the first place? 🙄

*The GB.

26

ARTICLE: Jehovah’s Witnesses investing more than $50M on Woodbury project

by AndersonsInfo in

jw
friends

https://libn.com/2024/03/04/jehovahs-witnesses-investing-more-than-50m-on-woodbury-project/.

long island business news.

march 4, 2024. the christian congregation of jehovah’s witnesses, which bought the former geico property in woodbury for $27 million in dec. 2022, plans to spend at least another $23 million to build an assembly hall and two support buildings on about half of the site.

NotFormer

"...a 52,400-square-foot assembly hall..."

What is the intended seating capacity?

Do they expect to ever see it full? How far is Woodbury from everything else?

Edited: okay it's not that far, and the hall is for seating 2100. I see that it's near LEGO land, an amusement park and a renaissance fair on the map. Were I a tourist in the area, I know where I 'd be headed. Hint: not to the JW assembly hall at Woodbury.

30

Internal Watchtower Statistics Re: Disfellowshipping and Shunning

by NotFormer in

does the wt have a person/department/section tasked with compiling data and analysing it statistically.

or have they started doing something like that now that they are hiring external consultancies?.

i ask the question because i'm wondering if such studies and statistical analysis would show any link between the harshness of the disfellowshipping policy as it is applied and the dropout rate of people within the organisation who have just had enough.. in previous threads it has been pointed out that the old approach isn't effective any more.

NotFormer

Slidin Fast: There are more exes than current members now

"Is this a substantiated fact or another speculation?"

Okay, another common assertion made here, and you're right, it's probably more hyperbolic than factual, now that you mention it. Shall we say instead "There are now a lot of exJWs out there to provide support for those who might feel the need to leave"?

30

Internal Watchtower Statistics Re: Disfellowshipping and Shunning

by NotFormer in

does the wt have a person/department/section tasked with compiling data and analysing it statistically.

or have they started doing something like that now that they are hiring external consultancies?.

i ask the question because i'm wondering if such studies and statistical analysis would show any link between the harshness of the disfellowshipping policy as it is applied and the dropout rate of people within the organisation who have just had enough.. in previous threads it has been pointed out that the old approach isn't effective any more.

NotFormer

nicolaou: "Claiming such as a fact because you "believe it" is misleading and dishonest."

I was actually trying to be sarcastic, and a bit tongue in cheek, but the dry media of pure text didn't convey it very well. FWIW, I no longer believe it to be a fact*, having had the opposite pointed out. I hereby retract that assertion that I made in the original post. I wish I hadn't written it in the first place, knowing what I now do know.

*I believed it at first due to having read several posts that made that assertion as though it were a fact.

30

Internal Watchtower Statistics Re: Disfellowshipping and Shunning

by NotFormer in

does the wt have a person/department/section tasked with compiling data and analysing it statistically.

or have they started doing something like that now that they are hiring external consultancies?.

i ask the question because i'm wondering if such studies and statistical analysis would show any link between the harshness of the disfellowshipping policy as it is applied and the dropout rate of people within the organisation who have just had enough.. in previous threads it has been pointed out that the old approach isn't effective any more.

NotFormer

joe134cd, that's a good thing to point out. One problem is: from what we've seen over the years that the leadership seem to be very naive and foolish. An argument against the outside consultant theory might be that the echo chamber environment of Bethel might never allow the thought to be entertained: "We could do with a fresh set of eyes to look at this". They believe that they are Jehovah's channel and his direction, as decided by them, is sufficient.

But the other side of the coin is that we outsiders see that they could do with that fresh set of eyes, and therefore we assume that they may be wise enough to engage them. Vienne may be right; it could be wishful thinking on our part.

It doesn't change the fact that the current state of affairs within the Jehovah's Witnesses is a dog's breakfast, and they need all the help they can get to right the ship.

30

Internal Watchtower Statistics Re: Disfellowshipping and Shunning

by NotFormer in

does the wt have a person/department/section tasked with compiling data and analysing it statistically.

or have they started doing something like that now that they are hiring external consultancies?.

i ask the question because i'm wondering if such studies and statistical analysis would show any link between the harshness of the disfellowshipping policy as it is applied and the dropout rate of people within the organisation who have just had enough.. in previous threads it has been pointed out that the old approach isn't effective any more.

NotFormer

"I'm educating a simpleton. Alas"

Enough with the insults, dude.

I used one poorly worded sentence. I have been led to believe by previous posts that the outside consultants were an established fact. I see now that such is not the case. Does learning from mistakes make a person a simpleton?

I agree that I indulged in faulty logic trying to stop my original questions and thoughts from being derailed. I retract the original assertion based on new information and advice. I'm sorry I got a faulty "fact" mixed up in my original premise.

30

Internal Watchtower Statistics Re: Disfellowshipping and Shunning

by NotFormer in

does the wt have a person/department/section tasked with compiling data and analysing it statistically.

or have they started doing something like that now that they are hiring external consultancies?.

i ask the question because i'm wondering if such studies and statistical analysis would show any link between the harshness of the disfellowshipping policy as it is applied and the dropout rate of people within the organisation who have just had enough.. in previous threads it has been pointed out that the old approach isn't effective any more.

NotFormer

I wrote it as fact, because I believe it to be fact, based on the educated guesses, i.e. speculation, of many here. IMO, if you like, it's a fact, just as in your unbacked-by-facts opinion, it isn't. You say yourself, you've seen no evidence. That doesn't mean that the outside consultations aren't happening. Absence of proof isn't proof of absence.

The questions raised in the first post still stand.

30

Internal Watchtower Statistics Re: Disfellowshipping and Shunning

by NotFormer in

does the wt have a person/department/section tasked with compiling data and analysing it statistically.

or have they started doing something like that now that they are hiring external consultancies?.

i ask the question because i'm wondering if such studies and statistical analysis would show any link between the harshness of the disfellowshipping policy as it is applied and the dropout rate of people within the organisation who have just had enough.. in previous threads it has been pointed out that the old approach isn't effective any more.

NotFormer

Nice shilling for the Borg, Vienne. I only mentioned that as part of some of the current speculation about the WTs direction. I even used the word "speculation" in the body of my post. We can't know what they're doing in secret, so we can only speculate.

Now, can we get back to actually discussing the points I raised?

slimboyfat, given your posts demonstrating that attrition is happening across the board in Christian denominations, do you think that the WT could filter out that background noise from their statistics, and figure out what policies of their own might contribute to the decline which is obviously concerning them enough for them to be changing rules?