NotFormer

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Posts by NotFormer

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  37

  They Came To The Door!

  by NotFormer in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  going door to door with their "memorial" invitation.

  "so you can pass the emblems but nobody partakes?

  them: "we can explain who is to partake".. me: "all jesus' followers".

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  NotFormer

  Vanderhoven7, they weren't there to "discuss the bible" (as per the video) but for the memorial invitation. I suppose I could go to their house and invite them to my church for communion; that church has communion at every Sunday service. And they don't even have to watch the emblems whizz past!
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  19

  Does The WT Keep Files On ExJW Activists?

  by NotFormer in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  it occurred to me that the wt, if they can identify the activists that are currently campaigning against them, would have a lot of ability to compile detailed dossiers on them.

  once identified, the elders of the appropriate congregation could be asked to forward copies of all their membership details held locally.. would they do that, and do such dossiers exist?.

  (there are probably data collection rules governing such things in a lot of countries, but by no stretch of the imagination could the wt be considered a good corporate citizen).

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  NotFormer

  Jan, it's hard to gauge how effective a conversation at the door is in getting the JW to think or question. I doubt that the crossed swords approach of my last two encounters are very effective. When you meet with hostility, you tend to double down.

  A kinder gentler conversation may bear more fruit. But they don't seem to want hang around for conversation anymore, even at the rare times they turn up. 😮
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  26

  ARTICLE: Jehovah’s Witnesses investing more than $50M on Woodbury project

  by AndersonsInfo in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  https://libn.com/2024/03/04/jehovahs-witnesses-investing-more-than-50m-on-woodbury-project/.

  long island business news.

  march 4, 2024. the christian congregation of jehovah’s witnesses, which bought the former geico property in woodbury for $27 million in dec. 2022, plans to spend at least another $23 million to build an assembly hall and two support buildings on about half of the site.

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  NotFormer

  As I understand it, the HQ is now in Warwick. Is that right? Surely that's sufficient for what they do*. Do they need another large facility? Is there an assembly hall at Warwick? If so, are they wanting to distance the GB and Bethel higher-ups further from the great unwashed by giving them an assembly hall between Warwick and NYC?

  BTW, whatever happened to Patterson? Two decades ago, everything was moving there, IIRC.

  *I called you Shirley again; sorry!
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  30

  Internal Watchtower Statistics Re: Disfellowshipping and Shunning

  by NotFormer in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  does the wt have a person/department/section tasked with compiling data and analysing it statistically.

  or have they started doing something like that now that they are hiring external consultancies?.

  i ask the question because i'm wondering if such studies and statistical analysis would show any link between the harshness of the disfellowshipping policy as it is applied and the dropout rate of people within the organisation who have just had enough.. in previous threads it has been pointed out that the old approach isn't effective any more.

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  NotFormer

  Vidiot: "I use this:

  😏

  Seems to work most of the time."

  You pull that off so well, I wouldn't dare try emulating you! 😉

  "IMO, the recent attempts at appearing more mainstream do suggest that alleged insiders’ reports of outside consultants (and the related dismissal of Uncle Tony) are indeed legitimate."

  Given that the original question was about crunching the numbers in the WT files, and the WT's stance on higher education would suggest a dearth of number crunchers at Bethel*, should they decide that they want to do that, they might find themselves in the position of needing to engage the help of outsiders. It is not unreasonable to wonder if they may have yielded to that temptation in the many areas where they may find themselves deficient. However, as pointed out in this thread, there is not a lot of real evidence that they are in the habit of engaging outside consultants**.

  *The small pool of tertiary educated JWs to draw on due to their stance higher education is pretty well established as fact. There are exceptions, people who decide to get a degree against WT advice, but they are enough of a rarity to be the subject of many a thread***. And, more often than not (I'm now trespassing back into the area of speculation rather than concrete fact), they tend to become exes and may well end up here!

  **I read on another thread that the WT has engaged the services of a legal firm that helped the Catholic church with their CSA cases. Is that an established fact?

  ***And it is said that the WT will send favoured Bethelites to university to get the education they need to function in certain roles. No-one**** ever said that the WT is above pragmatism in the face of principle. "Hypocrisy" might be too strong a word, and perhaps the subject of a different thread. And, of course, many such threads exist.

  ****This is hyperbolic and sarcastic in nature.
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  8

  Albert Delmont Jones

  by vienne in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  jones was a principal investor in the knickerbocker bank of new york city.

  there was an earlier and defunct bank of the same name.

  the bank issued its own currency, a common practice at the time.

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  NotFormer

  Who was he, and what's the interest?
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  2

  G.B.'s fantasy about "heavenly power"

  by BoogerMan in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  matthew 20:9-12 - "when the 11th-hour men came, all believers in christ each received everlasting life on earth.

  came, they assumed that they would receive more and become immortal kings in heaven, but they too were paid with everlasting life on earth.

  11 on receiving it, they began to complain against the master of the house 12 and said, ‘these last men didn't run the org; still you made them equal to us.

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  NotFormer

  Were they* ever in the vineyard in the first place? 🙄

  *The GB.
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  26

  ARTICLE: Jehovah’s Witnesses investing more than $50M on Woodbury project

  by AndersonsInfo in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  https://libn.com/2024/03/04/jehovahs-witnesses-investing-more-than-50m-on-woodbury-project/.

  long island business news.

  march 4, 2024. the christian congregation of jehovah’s witnesses, which bought the former geico property in woodbury for $27 million in dec. 2022, plans to spend at least another $23 million to build an assembly hall and two support buildings on about half of the site.

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  NotFormer

  "...a 52,400-square-foot assembly hall..."

  What is the intended seating capacity?

  Do they expect to ever see it full? How far is Woodbury from everything else?

  Edited: okay it's not that far, and the hall is for seating 2100. I see that it's near LEGO land, an amusement park and a renaissance fair on the map. Were I a tourist in the area, I know where I 'd be headed. Hint: not to the JW assembly hall at Woodbury.
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  30

  Internal Watchtower Statistics Re: Disfellowshipping and Shunning

  by NotFormer in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  does the wt have a person/department/section tasked with compiling data and analysing it statistically.

  or have they started doing something like that now that they are hiring external consultancies?.

  i ask the question because i'm wondering if such studies and statistical analysis would show any link between the harshness of the disfellowshipping policy as it is applied and the dropout rate of people within the organisation who have just had enough.. in previous threads it has been pointed out that the old approach isn't effective any more.

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  NotFormer

  Slidin Fast: There are more exes than current members now

  "Is this a substantiated fact or another speculation?"

  Okay, another common assertion made here, and you're right, it's probably more hyperbolic than factual, now that you mention it. Shall we say instead "There are now a lot of exJWs out there to provide support for those who might feel the need to leave"?
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  30

  Internal Watchtower Statistics Re: Disfellowshipping and Shunning

  by NotFormer in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  does the wt have a person/department/section tasked with compiling data and analysing it statistically.

  or have they started doing something like that now that they are hiring external consultancies?.

  i ask the question because i'm wondering if such studies and statistical analysis would show any link between the harshness of the disfellowshipping policy as it is applied and the dropout rate of people within the organisation who have just had enough.. in previous threads it has been pointed out that the old approach isn't effective any more.

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  NotFormer

  nicolaou: "Claiming such as a fact because you "believe it" is misleading and dishonest."

  I was actually trying to be sarcastic, and a bit tongue in cheek, but the dry media of pure text didn't convey it very well. FWIW, I no longer believe it to be a fact*, having had the opposite pointed out. I hereby retract that assertion that I made in the original post. I wish I hadn't written it in the first place, knowing what I now do know.

  *I believed it at first due to having read several posts that made that assertion as though it were a fact.
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  30

  Internal Watchtower Statistics Re: Disfellowshipping and Shunning

  by NotFormer in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  does the wt have a person/department/section tasked with compiling data and analysing it statistically.

  or have they started doing something like that now that they are hiring external consultancies?.

  i ask the question because i'm wondering if such studies and statistical analysis would show any link between the harshness of the disfellowshipping policy as it is applied and the dropout rate of people within the organisation who have just had enough.. in previous threads it has been pointed out that the old approach isn't effective any more.

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  NotFormer

  joe134cd, that's a good thing to point out. One problem is: from what we've seen over the years that the leadership seem to be very naive and foolish. An argument against the outside consultant theory might be that the echo chamber environment of Bethel might never allow the thought to be entertained: "We could do with a fresh set of eyes to look at this". They believe that they are Jehovah's channel and his direction, as decided by them, is sufficient.

  But the other side of the coin is that we outsiders see that they could do with that fresh set of eyes, and therefore we assume that they may be wise enough to engage them. Vienne may be right; it could be wishful thinking on our part.

  It doesn't change the fact that the current state of affairs within the Jehovah's Witnesses is a dog's breakfast, and they need all the help they can get to right the ship.