Posts by NotFormer

5

Am I a Return Visit?

by NotFormer in

jw
friends

well, i'm still processing this one.

saturday morning just gone.

my wife says: "there's a man in a suit at the door!

Thanks, Journeyman, for your very involved answer. I don't think we're actually in the zone where that checklist even kicks in yet. The bloke only promised to visit again in a fortnight. He didn't leave any piece of literature to be gone through, so I doubt that those questions would be relevant to him yet. But let's take a look at them:

"Does the person keep his appointments to study?"

Apart from a vague "I'll be back in two weeks " on his part, there's not what you might call an appointment to study.

"Does he prepare for the study?" No literature was left to study, so no to that.

"Does he attend congregation meetings?" I've never been to one and this gentleman didn't even invite me to one. Interestingly, some trolley ministry people invited me to the Sunday meeting at any time.

"Is he making changes in harmony with Bible principles?" By their definition, probably not.

"Does he share with others what he is learning?" Well, in an oblique sense, perhaps. I've shared about the encounter within my church circle of acquaintances. 😳

"Is he withdrawing from false religion?" Again, in an oblique sense: I intend to keep my promise to myself that I will never darken the doorway of a Kingdom Hall. 🤔

"In all seriousness, just be straight with him. If you're happy to discuss Bible topics with him but don't want a study or anything more, say so. If you're happy to even study with him, but you will not take it any further, say so. Then let him make the call, but if he tries to push you beyond what you've agreed to, just draw the line and remind him, and stop it if and when you're ready"

I'm happy to discuss Bible topics with him, that's for sure. But I'll firmly say no to any WT literature guided "study". For that one time it was a pleasant experience, but it's hard to predict whether or not it will be so going forward. No firm time was mentioned for this coming Saturday, so nothing is guaranteed. If he comes back with a second person, I'll probably say no. As I mentioned above, being ganged up upon is not my idea of a fun time.

Blondie, as Journeyman raises the point above, I'm not sure about the legality of maintaining lists, even though it's pretty obvious that they keep track, even if it's via mental note and word of mouth. I'll try to find out more on the legality of that in Australia. A thread on Quora:

https://www.quora.com/Do-Jehovahs-Witnesses-keep-track-of-which-homes-they-have-visited

4

BOOK STUDY OR BIBLE STUDY?

by blondie in

jw
friends

*** km 9/76 p. 8 question box ***.

might a discussion using the bible alone be reported as a study?

(…) but at times persons are unwilling to use any literature other than the bible.

NotFormer

Okay, I'm getting confused by their constant need to change terms. Is a return visit person, when those return visits are for the purpose of going through a specific piece of WT literature, referred to as a "study" and if so, are they more specifically a "Bible study"? I might be asking all this on the wrong thread.

4

BOOK STUDY OR BIBLE STUDY?

by blondie in

jw
friends

*** km 9/76 p. 8 question box ***.

might a discussion using the bible alone be reported as a study?

(…) but at times persons are unwilling to use any literature other than the bible.

NotFormer

You raise a few interesting issues, Blondie, at least from my point of view and from my recent experience:

https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/6240050866552832/am-return-visit

I asked the question if I'm a return visit. I presume that is a different designation than "Bible study" or "study". The gentleman didn't really make an appointment to "study" any piece of official WT literature, but just said he'd be back in two weeks. (I'm doing it a bit tough, mood wise, but I hope that by Saturday I'll be more pleasant company again)

This becomes a point of interest because on Friday I actually approached the trolley ministry people, who happened to be in town. Armed with an amicable previous experience, I was able to say that I'd recently been in contact with one of their people (and I was able to give them his name), so with that foot in the door we were able to have a reasonably pleasant chat for five or so minutes.

One of the gentlemen asked specifically if the chap at my door had left any literature with me. I guessed he was establishing whether I was a "study" or a return visit. (Is that correct?) I'm assuming that at this point the return visit is to attempt to set up an actual proper "study". Is that likely to be the case?

I did mention that he had gone out his way to get me a "new" NWT, but paradoxically that is hardly what the JWs would refer to as study material. (Fancy a Bible study based on just reading from the Bible! 🙄 It'd create the situation Blondie quotes from Russell above)

27

Few JW leader have children

by slimboyfat in

it’s been discussed before that few jw leaders, past and present, have had children.

this is in contrast with other groups, such as the mormons, whose leaders have had a lot of children.

i wonder if this has impacted jw growth.

NotFormer

It's a paradox in some ways. Rarely have WT leaders encouraged the production and raising of children ("the time is short", "devote your time and resources to the world wide work" and so on) and those at the top, for the most part, have, for once, followed their own demands. Yet the only way the WT can have experienced the growth of the last couple of decades*, outside the Third World that is, is if the rank and file disobeyed the head honchos and went forth and multiplied, determined to have families.

If the GB recognise this for the paradox that it is, it must be a bittersweet realisation. That on the one hand , it is a wholesale rejection of their authority at the deepest level by the R&F, yet it is the reason for their rather phenomenal growth, about which they continue to crow.

I've often said that the WT has always hated children, yet those very children that they've denigrated, at least since Rutherford's day**, have proven to be their salvation. 🙄

* If the published figures are true. Some take them at face value and in good faith; some are very sceptical. Plenty of recent threads about that.

** Russell had no heirs, so the attitude may well have started with him.

21

Applying the facial hair change in New Order portrayals

by careful in

i have a hard time watching the org's vids and reading the publications.

however, that's not the case with others here.

hence this post.

NotFormer

slimboyfat, was that video rated "Arrh"?

16

Juneteenth being celebrated by JWs

by Anony Mous in

so today i saw a group of jws i know, we were sitting down to eat at a public place and i guess they (mom and daughter) were performing at an event with their sports team… for juneteenth.. they (the entire team) happened to sit next to us for some fast food and i recognized them and said hi, hoping to make them uncomfortable.

they actually said hi and introduced themselves to my family, i’ve seen them before (they go to the same school as one of my kids) and they usually ignore me.

i know for a fact they and their family still goes, the family patriarch is an elder etc.

NotFormer

Anony Mous, of course, even though they realise that disfellowshipment for voting for one candidate would be seen as the gigantic dick move that it would be, they probably still disfellowship* where a candidate/cause is not so protected by the Zeitgeist. Wouldn't it be nice if the idiots on the GB would come to the realisation that forbidding the vote is a gigantic dick move in any way, manner or form?

Does anyone ever foresee a time when a GB member says something about wanting to be seen on the right side of history?** 🙄

* "Remove" 🙄

** You could argue that they used to be on the right side of history when they would try to wrap themselves in concepts like freedom of religion and other freedoms, but now they waste their time in court trying to cover up crimes. They could have fought for the freedom to meet and to go door to door during the lockdowns, but they folded like a seven high poker hand***.

* I use it too much, but I happen to like that saying

16

Juneteenth being celebrated by JWs

by Anony Mous in

so today i saw a group of jws i know, we were sitting down to eat at a public place and i guess they (mom and daughter) were performing at an event with their sports team… for juneteenth.. they (the entire team) happened to sit next to us for some fast food and i recognized them and said hi, hoping to make them uncomfortable.

they actually said hi and introduced themselves to my family, i’ve seen them before (they go to the same school as one of my kids) and they usually ignore me.

i know for a fact they and their family still goes, the family patriarch is an elder etc.

NotFormer

A demonstration? Of whatever sport they do, perhaps.

86

WAR begins.

by lastmanstanding in

things are moving right along.

“israel” has gone to war with iran.. who is fooled?.

this is uncle sam, same as in ukraine.. daniel layed out clearly the events of “d day” june 6, 1944 as the “ships of kittim” would sail against the king of the north.

NotFormer

Vanderhoven7: Wow, Larry Norman! That takes me back!

17

Is There Some Sort of Campaign On?

by NotFormer in

jw
friends

on friday, i walked to my doctor's to pick up a couple of prescriptions*.

from there i walked in to town to the chemist's (pharmacy) to get the scripts filled.

it's winter here, and my town can get get colder than is average for my state**.

NotFormer

Journeyman: "If your main street happens to mark a division between two congregation territories, that might explain why you saw two different groups on the same road"

That's an interesting thought. I've often wondered if more than one congregation work out of the Kingdom Hall. It's a question I mean to ask him on Saturday week (if he keeps his promise). There are two smaller towns about 1/2 hour away in opposite directions; could they and their catchments be folded into one congregation? Or is that pushing it? That the direction X and direction Y towns must have their own congregations if they're split by a bigger city with its own congregation in between? There are a few language groups here, but none large enough that I would expect a second congregation to be conducted in anything other than English.

"Generally, the approved list for a congregation would automatically include their pioneers, but you mention the man you met was an auxiliary pioneer (which is usually a temporary arrangement, one month at a time), so if he only does that from time-to-time he may not qualify. Or he may simply not have offered/volunteered himself to do it."

I didn't realise that auxiliary pioneers were decided upon on a monthly basis. I feel that he may be out of the main trolley ministry loop, but he may be in a loop of his own. He told me that he stakes out the train station once a day (presumably with a trolley and for an hour each time; the train isn't frequent enough for extended hours). Doing that seven days a week would get him seven of the nine hours he needs to get his 35 monthly hours in. Train trips tend to be longish; perhaps he tries to give people stuff that they'll read on the train? I take it that a country town station doesn't take on the same importance as the more Metropolitan stations? To me it strikes me as a sweet deal, an easy way to get in half an hour to an hour every day.

281

Where is Tony?

by Athanasius in

jw
friends

on february 22, 2023, anthony morris iii was officially removed from the governing body of jehovah's witnesses.

a few months later it was revealed that the watchtower bought him a house in lumberton, north carolina.. however, and correct me if i am wrong, since leaving the gb nobody has reported seeing tony attending jw meetings or participating in field service.

in fact nobody has reported seeing him anywhere, not even at a local liquor store.

NotFormer

"I'm shocked to see the tax bill in their personal names as I would have expected WT to hold the deed."

Perhaps Tony was too clever to allow that situation, where they can just whip it out from under him. Full title may have been part of the deal that saw him walk with no subsequent controversy.