proplog2

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Posts by proplog2

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  10

  Rutherford Whisky for sale

  by ballistic in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  .

  this guy called "rutherford" not only makes whisky, but shows himself depicted under a pyramid.

  is there a conspiracy afoot?.

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  proplog2

  Was he called Judge Rutheford or JUG Rutheford or according to some reports JUGS Rutheford
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  16

  generation shift - 1995 or 1984?

  by sonofapreacherman in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i first came to know about the 1995 shift in the definition of a generation from this website, having not stepped foot into a kh, bar the odd funeral, since the early 90s.

  i recently had the opportunity to question my mother and aunt about the change in doctrine.

  in an apparently innocent way, i asked about the post great war generation dying out and what that meant for the prophecy.

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  proplog2

  Nicalou:

  Very revealing. In other words they wove the rope. THEY tied the noose and put it around their neck with abslolutely no fear that the horse they were sitting on was going to take off.

  All the while Jehovah THEIR God allowed this to take place so that HIS people could be an object of ridicule. Too bad Moses wasn't around to convince Jehovah that this would not look good for his name.
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  9

  Does anyone know a good source(s) that refutes the Daniel book?

  by Check_Your_Premises in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  as some of you know, they are getting ready to go through the daniel book.

  i don't want to attack the dumb ideas in the book.

  i would just like to be able to ask some troubling questions, so it doesn't all take.. cyp

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  proplog2

  Problems with new Daniel Book

  Only 1 message in topic - view as tree

  " noWrap width="1%" bgColor=#b71c0c>Proplog2 Aug Newsgroups: alt.religion.jehovahs-witn From: [email protected] (Proplog2) - Find messages by this author Date: 1999/08/22 Subject: Problems with new Daniel Book Reply to Author | Forward | Print | Individual Message | Show original | Report Abuse Fudge. That's the unofficial term for what you do with numbers when they don't exactly say what you want them to say. The Watchtower writers are either mathematically challenged or they are deliberate fudgers. Let's look at the day counting prophesies of Daniel. On page 301 of the New Daniel book we have the LATEST "truth" about the 1,260 days, the 2,300 evening and mornings, 1,290 days and the 1,335 days. Ready to do some counting? The Chart "PROPHETIC TIME PERIODS IN DANIEL" (Will be referred to as the "Chart") "Three and a half times (1,260 days) Daniel 7:25; 12:7" "December 1914 to June 1918" Let's total the time span from December 1 1914 to June 30 1918 December 1914 = 31 days 1915 = 365 days 1916 (Leap Year) = 366 days 1917 = 365 days Jan 1- June 30 1918 = 1,318 days They allow a fudge factor of 58 days. Is Jehovah that sloppy with his prophecies? Shouldn't they know exactly when the 1,260 days begins and ends? Look at the type of event they use to mark the boundaries of these 1,260 days. Page 142 Paragraph 29 Question for the paragraph "When and how did the prophetic three and a half years begin? "For the anointed Christians, World War I meant a time of testing. By the end of 1914, they were expecting persecution. In fact, the very yeartext chosen for 1915 was Jesus' question to his disciples, "Are ye able to drink of my cup?" It was based on Matthew 20:22, (KJV). Hence, beginning in December 1914, that small band of witnesses preached in "sackcloth". So at what point in December do you start counting? Do you start when some committee decided on the yeartext? Do you start when someone, on the committee that decides the yeartext, got the notion? Do you start counting from the time the plate is composed for printing the years text. Do you start from the publication date on the Watchtower that contains the yeartext? Somehow this doesn't seem like a good way to start counting a time period that is supposed to have some great prophetic significance. So when did the 1,260 days end? That's essentially the question asked in paragraph 31. The answer is as follows: "Harassment of God's anointed ones climaxed on June 21, 1918, when the president , J.F. Rutherford and prominent members of the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society were sentenced on false charges to long prison terms... So the foretold period of "time, and times and half a time" ended in June 1918." If the period of mourning in sackcloth is supposed to end on June 21, 1918 wouldn't that mean that the suffering ended? Instead it just began! That's when they were sentenced to jail. Apparently they were happy to receive prison suits as an exchange for their old sack cloth. Since they brought up the June 21st date as the time it ended it makes sense that we should be able to find the all important starting date by simply counting back 1,260 days. So let's do that. Jan 1- June 21 1918 = 172 days 1917 = 365 days 1916 = 366 days That totals up to 903 days 1,260 - 903 = 357 days or January 8th 1915. That's not quite December 1914. Most likely the 1,260 days started from the day the local congregations got the banner of the yeartext displayed at their meeting places. I was going to work my way through the other dates. I just don't have the time. Maybe someone else can do that. I prefer my fudge in brownies.
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  9

  Does anyone know a good source(s) that refutes the Daniel book?

  by Check_Your_Premises in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  as some of you know, they are getting ready to go through the daniel book.

  i don't want to attack the dumb ideas in the book.

  i would just like to be able to ask some troubling questions, so it doesn't all take.. cyp

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  proplog2

  New Daniel Book = More Problems

  All 3 messages in topic - view as tree

  " noWrap width="1%" bgColor=#b71c0c>Proplog2 Sep Newsgroups: alt.religion.jehovahs-witn From: [email protected] (Proplog2) - Find messages by this author Date: 1999/09/04 Subject: New Daniel Book = More Problems Reply to Author | Forward | Print | Individual Message | Show original | Report Abuse More problems with the Daniel book. (Continuation of criticism) The date of 1914 has been a pivotal date for the Watchtower. A lot hinges on it. Russell counted down to 1914 and the Watchtower has been counting the years since 1914. The new Daniel book reaffirms he Watchtowers old mistakes with reference to this date. The overarching error in connection with the date of 1914 is not the debate over when the count of 2,520 years starts but whether there should be ANY counting of 2,520 years at all. On page 94 the question for paragraph 24 is: "The great dream tree symbolizes what?" The Daniel book says "the tree stands for rulership and sovereignty far grander than that of Babylon's king. It symbolizes the universal sovereignty of Jehovah...especially with respect to the earth." If you read the 4th Chapter of Daniel it says nothing specifically about the tree symbolizing the universal sovereignty of Jehovah. Since the 4th Chapter of Daniel doesn't say that the tree symbolizes the universal sovereignty of Jehovah it is THEREFORE presumptuous for the Watchtower to make that claim. The 4th chapter however doesn't leave the interpretation of the dream to our imagination. It tells us specifically what that tree represents. Daniel reveals the interpretation with these words at Daniel 4:22 "It is YOU O king". That's it. The tree represents Nebuchadnezzar. Any further elaboration of this simple explanation is pure speculation. The Watchtower is allowed to speculate but individual JW's are disfellowshipped if they question this Watchtower speculation. Next the Watchtower invokes an imaginary "rule" for interpreting prophecy. The question for paragraph 28 page 96: "What rule must be applied to the 2,520 days of the prophetic seven times?" The answer: "A day for a year." To support this "rule" they quote Ezekiel 4:6,7 and Numbers 14:34. Read those scriptures. There is nothing about them that suggests that there is some universal rule of using a day for a year when interpreting prophecies that mention a number of days. Once again this is speculation. It's no wonder they warn JW's about speculation. They seem to have a problem with the consequences of foolish speculation. But, suppose there really is a rule that you use a day for a year? How consistent are they in following that rule? Why don't they use that rule with Daniel 8:14 in counting the 2,300 days? Or what about the 1,290 days and 1,335 days in Daniel 12:11,12? Apparently this rule is not a rule at all!! The debate on 607BC is an interesting discussion but it is merely a side issue. Even if 607BC were the indisputable beginning to the 70 year period of desolation there is no basis for counting 2,520 years to some imagined point in the future when Christ begins to rule.
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  22

  The EU and WTS prophecy

  by dorayakii in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  the european union does not exist on the american political landscape.

  at a time when many foreign-policy experts are looking toward a multipolar world with the eu and china as two of the important poles, when foreign-policy issues are more important in the u.s. presidential election than at any time in recent memory, george w. bush has not even mentioned the eu in any speech given in 2004. not once.

  (http://www.iht.com/articles/2004/10/18/news/edslaughter.html) .

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  proplog2

  Unfortunately the Watchtower abandoned a pretty good interpretation of Daniel. The USA is still pushing Russia. At least Putin thinks so. The policy of encirclement of Russia is still in place. The USA is playing its old game in the former Soviet Union Republics. The elites in Russia believe the USA is out to break them up into smaller countries.

  The two principal rivals are still the US and Russia. They continue to wave their nuclear capabilities in each others faces. Look at a map. There is nothing North of Russia. Stretching accross 11 time zones it dominates the northern tier of the World Island (Asia, Europe, Africa, Middle-East) - indeed the King (ruler) of the North.

  Russia has good relations with all the "axis of evil" countries. Russia leads the call for a multi-polar world which really means a world without the USA (Babylon the Great) dominanting it.

  Expect to see some kind of world situation where Russia reasserts its authority over its former republics (10 kings who have not received a kingdom except for confederacy with Wild Beast Rev. 17:12) Most likely Russia will explode a nuclear device in New York City - allowing the blame to be placed on Islamic Terrorists. This will be the perfect opportunity for Russia to make the case for a new political entity on the Former Soviet Space.

  The EU repudiation of the constitution works for the good of Russia. If you were to ask the average European to state their nationality they would say French, German, Spanish, Italian - NOT European. The EU is primarily a economic union. They remain separate entitites.
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  22

  THIS IS IT!!! EARTHQUAKES!!!

  by jula71 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i have to laugh, just heard from 2 dub friends that proceeded to tell me this is a sign.

  california has had 4 earthquakes in the last 3 days.

  so all of you still on the fence.straighten upcant be long now.

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  proplog2

  Latest Quakes EQ Facts & Lists Hazards & Preparedness For Kids Only Regional Websites Science & Technology

  HOME | ABOUT US | EQ GLOSSARY | FOR TEACHERS | PRODUCTS & SERVICES | DID YOU FEEL IT? | FAQ | SEARCH

  EQ Facts & Lists Magnitude & Intensity

  Are Earthquakes Really on the Increase? We continue to be asked by many people throughout the world if earthquakes are on the increase. Although it may seem that we are having more earthquakes, earthquakes of magnitude 7.0 or greater have remained fairly constant. A partial explanation may lie in the fact that in the last twenty years, we have definitely had an increase in the number of earthquakes we have been able to locate each year. This is because of the tremendous increase in the number of seismograph stations in the world and the many improvements in global communications. In 1931, there were about 350 stations operating in the world; today, there are more that 8,000 stations and the data now comes in rapidly from these stations by electronic mail, internet and satellite. This increase in the number of stations and the more timely receipt of data has allowed us and other seismological centers to locate earthquakes more rapidly and to locate many small earthquakes which were undetected in earlier years. The NEIC now locates about 20,000 earthquakes each year or approximately 50 per day. Also, because of the improvements in communications and the increased interest in the environment and natural disasters, the public now learns about more earthquakes. According to long-term records (since about 1900), we expect about 18 major earthquakes (7.0 - 7.9) and one great earthquake (8.0 or above) in any given year. However, let's take a look at what has happened in the past 31 years, from 1969 through 2001. The following is a list of major and great earthquakes during this period: Number of Earthquakes Per Year Year Major Earthquakes Great Earthquakes 1969 15 1 1970 20 0 1971 19 1 1972 15 0 1973 13 0 1974 14 0 1975 14 1 1976 15 2 1977 11 2 1978 16 1 1979 13 0 1980 13 1 1981 13 0 1982 10 1 1983 14 0 1984 08 0 1985 13 1 1986 05 1 1987 11 0 1988 08 0 1989 06 1 1990 18 0 1991 16 0 1992 13 0 1993 12 0 1994 11 2 1995 18 2 1996 14 1 1997 16 0 1998 11 1 1999 18 0 2000 14 1 2001 15 1 See also: Earthquake Facts and Statistics See also: Magnitude / Intensity Information and Links

  U.S. Department of the Interior, U.S. Geological Survey USGS Privacy Statement | | Disclaimer | | FOIA | | Accessibility This page is brought to you by the Earthquake Hazards Program URL: http://neic.usgs.gov/neis/general/increase_in_earthquakes.html Contact: NEIC Web Team Last modification: Tuesday, 21 December 2004 14:49
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  33

  Albert Einstein and his nature of turning inward?

  by frankiespeakin in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i would like to here your opinions about ae even if you don't know much about him,, what do you think about him according to what limited knowledge you have of him.

  i think this would be fun for our imagination.

  i bet those that have a mystical nature might have some interesting things to say as well as you science buffs.. i think he was very introverted,,had great intuitions,, a very lively imagination,,and had perhaps experinced enlightenment perhaps not as much as some mystics but quite abit atleast that's what i gather from the recient thread i started which has some quotes of his ideas about spirituality.

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  proplog2

  A personal acquaintance of mine was a very close friend to Dr. William H. Sheldon the Somatotype guy who coined the terms Endomorph, Mesomorph, Ectomorph. My acquaintance said that Sheldon was working at the Carl Jung institute when Einstein came for help. Einstein had what they called a "gynic intrusion" which means he had a somewhat feminine body-type. Einstein had trouble integrating this feminine streak into his male persona. Sheldon helped him with this and Einstein was able to live happily ever after. THE END>

  The above won't be found in any history books. It is a betrayal of a Doctor/Patient relationship.
• 
  53

  "This Generation" change -- fallout evidence?

  by reagan_oconnor in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i was reading the recent posts on 2034 and was wondering... .

  the 1975 debacle left the fds scrambling for explanations for the mass exodus of r&f who were disillusioned by their bs.

  the pat answer has always been, "those people didn't keep pace with god's chariot" and they weren't "strong in the truth" and allowed something so "minor" to "stumble" them.

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  proplog2

  I have talked to several people who left because of the generation thing. I know one old and very faithful brother who quit taking his heart medication and went on a diet of rich food when he became depressed over the 1914 generation change. He died very quickly.

  The chart of % increase over the years is very revealing. The increase of the late 1940's and early 50's was clearly a bounce after World War II. Anything more than a 4% increase can be traced to Watchtower doctrine or geo-political changes.

  The 1960's activity was strongly related to a combination of African Missionary work and the 1975 prediction.

  The decrease after 1975 was predictable.

  The 1980's increases were primarily in the Latin American countries and Japan.

  The 1990's increases were floated on top of the events connected with the Death of the Soviet Union.

  It's hard to tell if the slow-down of the late 1990's was due to the 1914 generation disappointment or if it was the result of the internet or both.

  The internet is probably going to keep a lid on their increases.

  They year 2014 will be devastating.
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  6

  World War Zero Started in 1904

  by proplog2 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  the watchtower still clings to 1914 as the date of christ's return.

  ray franz has reported how even n h knorr was unsure of the 1914 date and that other members of the governing body had their doubts.

  conveniently, world war i began in 1914. that single fact has kept the 1914 date alive.

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  proplog2

  This post probably isn't going to get much attention. However it should be significant to those who are looking for arguments against the 1914 date.
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  6

  World War Zero Started in 1904

  by proplog2 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  the watchtower still clings to 1914 as the date of christ's return.

  ray franz has reported how even n h knorr was unsure of the 1914 date and that other members of the governing body had their doubts.

  conveniently, world war i began in 1914. that single fact has kept the 1914 date alive.

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  proplog2

  The Watchtower still clings to 1914 as the date of Christ's Return. Ray Franz has reported how even N H Knorr was unsure of the 1914 date and that other members of the Governing Body had their doubts. Conveniently, World War I began in 1914. That single fact has kept the 1914 date alive.
  
  It now appears that the era of World Wars didn't begin in 1914 and that World War I is a misnomer. Some historians now refer to the Russo-Japanese War as World War Zero. Here is a list of the Wars during the World War Era
  
  World War era
  1904 - 1905 Russo-Japanese War
  1905 Revolution of 1905 in Russia
  1911 - 1912 Turco-Italian War fought over Libya
  1912 - 1913 Two Balkan Wars are fought for control of the European territories of the Ottoman Empire
  1914 - 1918 World War I (at the time usually "the Great War"), initially in Europe, then worldwide
  1916 Easter Rising rebellion in Ireland
  1917 - 1918 Russian Revolution
  1917 - 1920 Estonian Liberation War
  1918 Finnish Civil War, fought between "the reds" (rebellious Socialists) and "the whites" (anti-Socialists) in the aftermath of the Russian Revolution of 1917. Germany intervened on the side of the Whites.
  1918 - 1922 Russian Civil War, fought between "the reds" (Communists) and "the whites" (tsarists) directly after the Bolshevist Revolution. US, France and Britain also intervened to "kill communism in the crib."
  1918 Viena expedition
  1918 - 1919 Poland and Lwow against Westukrainian Republic
  1918 - 1919 Great Poland Uprising, Greater Poland against Germany
  1919 - Czechoslovak-Polish war in Cieszyn Silesia
  1919 Third Anglo-Afghan War
  1919 First Silesian Uprising
  1919 Aunus expedition
  1919 - 1921 Polish-Soviet war Poland and Ukrainian People's Republic against Soviets
  1919 - 1921 Anglo-Irish War (aka the Irish War of Independence)
  1919 - 1922 "Turkish War of Independence"
  1920 - 1922 Second Greco-Turkish War (aka War in Asia Minor)
  1920 Second Silesian Uprising Silesian Poles against Germany
  1921 Third Silesian Uprising Silesian Poles against Germany
  1922 - 1923 Irish Civil War
  1926 - 1928 Northern Expedition in China
  1927 - 1937 Agrarian Revolution in China
  1932 - 1935 Chaco War between Bolivia and Paraguay
  1934 - 1936 Northern Expedition by Kuomintang
  1935 - 1936 Second Italo-Abyssinian War
  1936 - 1939 Spanish Civil War
  1937 - 1945 Second Sino-Japanese War
  1939 - 1945 World War II
  1939 - 1940 Winter War; Part of WW II, Finland against Soviet Union
  1941 - 1944 Continuation War; Part of WW II, Finland against Soviet Union
  1944 - 1945 Lapland War; Part of WW II, Finland against Germany
  1941 - 1942 Border war between Ecuador and Peru
  
  There is a new book out THE RUSSO-JAPANESE WAR IN GLOBAL PERSPECTIVE - WORLD WAR ZERO" edited by John W. Steinberg.
  
  Here is an article about it:
  
  Russo-Japanese War as World War Zero
  
  
  
  
  
  This year marks the 100th anniversary of the end of the Russo-Japanese War (1904-05).
  
  Keio University's Institute of East Asian Studies hosted the International Academic Conference in Commemoration of the Centennial of the Russo-Japanese War last month at its Mita Campus in Tokyo, supported by The Yomiuri Shimbun.
  
  The Yomiuri Shimbun spoke with four historians who took part in the conference about the significance of the war in the contemporary context and will carry excerpts from the interviews beginning today.
  
  The first installment is an interview with John Steinberg, associate professor at Georgia Southern University. Steinberg, born in Missouri, specializes in Russian military history and has a doctorate from Ohio State University.
  
  Following are excerpts from his remarks in the interview:
  
  
  We [Steinberg and his coeditors] first decided to call this war "World War Zero" several years ago. Our book "The Russo-Japanese War in Global Perspective: World War Zero" was just published, and we present this idea.
  
  The reason why [we decided to call it World War Zero] is because the 20th century was a century of total war [and] global conflicts. The Russo-Japanese War was the first war in the cycle of violence.
  
  The Russo-Japanese War was a global conflict because you had, for the first time, the great European powers involved in what they called their Great Game of imperialism with an Asiatic power like Japan. The type of conflict they had become involved in is very similar to the war that the Europeans would fight a decade later.
  
  There's basically three aspects of the Russo-Japanese War: There is a naval war and there is war of maneuver. The third aspect is a siege warfare that occurs at Port Arthur.
  
  Now, all three of these aspects represent what nation-states are capable of doing when it comes to war.
  
  Japan and Russia were mobilizing, beginning with men, and then going to the weapons and munitions, on a level unprecedented until World War I. In this way we consider it a precursor to World War I.
  
  Now, what do I mean by siege warfare? This is very sad chapter in history because the only way that generals knew to reduce a fortress was to send masses of men against the fortress.
  
  Japanese soldiers died under Gen. Maresuke Nogi's command trying to reduce Port Arthur.
  
  There are similarities in World War I with the Battle of Verdun, which began in February 1916, and the Germans and the French fought until December.
  
  By the Battle of Mukden, which occurred in February-March 1905, another aspect of World War Zero creeps into this war. That is the war of attrition.
  
  This idea of war of attrition is that you continue to fight as long as you have men and bullets. This is an aspect of 20th century global industrial warfare.
  
  All of the things that you need to fight this war have to be paid for. Where did the money come from to fight the war? This gave it another global aspect. The Russians were borrowing money from the French to fight the war, and the Germans to a certain extent.
  
  The Japanese wanted to borrow the money from Great Britain. But the British were kind of nervous about loaning money to the Japanese, despite the treaty between Japan and Great Britain.
  
  And so the Japanese were fortunate to find a banker in New York who was interested in loaning money to the Japanese--in part because he didn't like the Russians.
  
  The Russo-Japanese War, if you find it in a textbook, is usually linked with the Spanish-American War and the Boer War [in South Africa] as colonial conflicts.
  
  We are trying to separate the Russo-Japanese War from the Spanish-American War and the Boer War because it is something that was greater than a colonial conflict.
  
  There is certainly no question in the minds of the Europeans that they cannot apply this old imperial formula. The imperial formula is to go forward into the world and gain control over economic resources and to use those resources to make the European country wealthy.
  
  They justify this by talking about such things as the "white man's burden." This means to go out into the world and teach a higher level of civilization to all people of color.
  
  After the Russo-Japanese War, the Europeans had to say, 'Well, maybe the Japanese don't fit into this scenario and maybe the Japanese will be some force in the world that other Asians will look to.'
  
  [In] the Russo-Japanese War, World War Zero, there's two major political trends that were bearing fruit.
  
  One is imperialism, and with imperialism, the fruit is ripe--some would even say rotting. The other is Asian nationalism. Nations believing that Asia belongs to Asians, and that it is important that Asia [nations] can govern themselves and manage their own resources, which is another way of saying manage their own wealth without European interference or influence. This is the message that was sent across Asia.
  
  Now the question becomes how the Japanese are going to manage this situation--are the Japanese going to become imperialists just like the Europeans or are they going to develop an Asian union like the European Union today?
  
  I think it took Japan at least until the 1930s to sort out what they wanted to do. And tragically, at that time, the Japanese government decided that they were going to act as imperialists.
  
  
  Copyright 2005 The Yomiuri Shimbun
  
  So 1914 did not start the Era of World Wars. Was the Devil hurled down in an angry state in the year 1904? Of course all the Watchtower speculation about "unseen" causes behind the world situation is really an effort to deal with their disappointment when Jesus failed to appear in the heavens in a way that "every eye could see him".