proplog2

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Posts by proplog2

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  83

  Yesterday my father informed me that he will shun me...

  by nvrgnbk in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  but only if a judicial committee tells him to.. if they say i'm inactive and let me be, he can still talk to me.. it's meaningless, because i would never meet with a jc, but he let me know where he stands.. he's dead to me.. i'm not hurting.. lost tons of respect for the man.. i told him he was brainwashed and left him without saying goodbye.. to no longer live for his approval was liberating, but this is even better.. i told him that i couldn't do that to my son.. his response?.

  unconditional love is a lie.. you only get unconditional love from a dog.. sick, brainwashed, emotionally bankrupt man.. p.s.- not looking for cyber hugs.

  just sharing the experience for others going through similar things and for lurkers to see what this cult does to people.. regards,.

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  proplog2

  Nvrgnbk:
  
  "his relationship with God is more important to him than any human relationship.
  
  May Jehovah wipe his ass and his chin when he loses control of his bodily functions."
  
  That says it all. Did you tell him that in so many words?
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  34

  JW's Are The Key to Survival

  by proplog2 in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  this is an elaboration of a comment i made on gills post about the demise of jw's as the years pass.

  gill suggested that humans have survived turmoil in the past.

  but our world is different.

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  proplog2

  Burn: Get your blood card and pretend you are a witness for a while.
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  5

  The Watchtower's Bible Language Fallacy

  by metatron in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  when i was an elder, it bothered me that many watchtower teachings seemed to depend upon exact and precise technical meanings.

  of various words in the bible.

  the problem with this was, as i realized from a brief look at hebrew in particular, that it is a fallacy to think.

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  proplog2

  This is a good topic.
  
  For instance the "everlasting life" / "time indefinite" problem.
  
  I still can't see "everlasting life" as a deliverable promise nor a necessary one.
  
  I can understand the idea of living a long healthy life in a world without war.
  
  But zillions of years?
  
  A friend of mine is a hebrew scholar (no longer a witness) and he told me that the New World Translation always makes it seem that the faithful did "just so". For example - And Noah did "just so". Suggesting a pharisaic attention to detail. In actuality the Hebrew merely says "he did it."
  
  The peek-a-boo "parousia" is especially irksome.
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  66

  Why the Watchtowers "War" argument is totally bogus

  by drew sagan in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  from my own personal experience the watchtowers position on war always appeared to be one of the most difficult issues to navigate.

  a number of times when i was first leaving the wts i spoke with jws who all used this argument to show me how "wrong" i was about the "truth".

  while i knew the watchtowers arguments where wrong, i had a very difficult time figuring out exactly why it was wrong.

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  proplog2

  Drew:
  
  Ok I think I see what your point is. Perhaps the title of the thread threw me off.
  
  When I think of their "War argument" I tend to think of the very arguments that ALL of the peace churches use. But in fact JW's do add an extra hook because they are always trying to convince others to leave their religion and join theirs.
  
  Marketing people talk about a products USP Unique Selling Point. Since Rutherford's time JW's have had an "advertising" orientation so perhaps that explains their focus on comparing religions.
  
  You don't seem to have a problem with their claim to a Biblical basis for their non-involvement in war and politics. Their Biblical stand is no different from the first three centuries of Church history. If you read the church fathers their is a strong similarity between their views on this matter and JW's view.
  
  You have a problem with their comparing themselves to other religions. You are saying that line of argumentation is "bogus".
  
  Do you disagree with these statements?
• 
  66

  Why the Watchtowers "War" argument is totally bogus

  by drew sagan in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  from my own personal experience the watchtowers position on war always appeared to be one of the most difficult issues to navigate.

  a number of times when i was first leaving the wts i spoke with jws who all used this argument to show me how "wrong" i was about the "truth".

  while i knew the watchtowers arguments where wrong, i had a very difficult time figuring out exactly why it was wrong.

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  proplog2

  Drew:
  
  I just want to clarify some basics. At this point I am not interested in specifics merely that they (JW's) believe that fighting wars is based on some things Jesus and his apostles said.
  
  I want to salvage our exchange and see where our viewpoints diverge.
  
  Most likely your answer will be yes of course they believe that. And you could search through their publications and go into detail on it. Like other newly formed religions you can expect some ambiguity as they move toward their own particular orthodoxy. But for quite some time they have refused to participate in wars based on their interpretation of the Bible.
  
  
  Next I would like to know if you think JW's believe there is a Biblical basis for not holding public office? Again I am not going to debate the validity of their conclusions. I just want to establish that they believe there is a Biblical basis for that belief.
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  11

  WHY DID RUSSELL ABANDON TRINITARIANISM?

  by badboy in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  he initally believed in it, but abandon the doctrine later.. why?.

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  proplog2

  The trinitarian concept is incomplete. That's why I prefer the quaternity model.
• 
  11

  WHY DID RUSSELL ABANDON TRINITARIANISM?

  by badboy in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  he initally believed in it, but abandon the doctrine later.. why?.

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  proplog2

  I would call myself a quaternitarian. Father = Love (the uniting ground of all existence) Son = Wisdom (the creative aspect of the universe) Spirit = Power (the flow of energy) Devil = Justice (Evil is done to assert the "self" and stop the world from impinging too deeply)
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  66

  Why the Watchtowers "War" argument is totally bogus

  by drew sagan in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  from my own personal experience the watchtowers position on war always appeared to be one of the most difficult issues to navigate.

  a number of times when i was first leaving the wts i spoke with jws who all used this argument to show me how "wrong" i was about the "truth".

  while i knew the watchtowers arguments where wrong, i had a very difficult time figuring out exactly why it was wrong.

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  proplog2

  {reformatted}
  
  Drew Sagan: I argue in good faith. So work with me on this. I like arguments that are succinct.
  
  So please clarify.
  
  Would you say this is an accurate statement:
  
  "Jehovah's Witnesses believe there is a scriptural basis for not fighting in wars."
  
  I'm not asking whether they interpret the scriptures correctly.
  
  I just want to know if you think the statement in quotes is true or false.
• 
  66

  Why the Watchtowers "War" argument is totally bogus

  by drew sagan in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  from my own personal experience the watchtowers position on war always appeared to be one of the most difficult issues to navigate.

  a number of times when i was first leaving the wts i spoke with jws who all used this argument to show me how "wrong" i was about the "truth".

  while i knew the watchtowers arguments where wrong, i had a very difficult time figuring out exactly why it was wrong.

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  proplog2

  Drew Sagan: I argue in good faith. So work with me on this. I like arguments that are succinct. So please clarify. Would you say this is an accurate statement: "Jehovah's Witnesses believe there is a scriptural basis for not fighting in wars." I'm not asking whether they interpret the scriptures correctly. I just want to know if you think the statement in quotes is true or false.
• 
  66

  Why the Watchtowers "War" argument is totally bogus

  by drew sagan in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  from my own personal experience the watchtowers position on war always appeared to be one of the most difficult issues to navigate.

  a number of times when i was first leaving the wts i spoke with jws who all used this argument to show me how "wrong" i was about the "truth".

  while i knew the watchtowers arguments where wrong, i had a very difficult time figuring out exactly why it was wrong.

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  proplog2

  Drew:
  
  Christians are willing to die rather than kill. If I am willing to die and suffer imprisonment rather than kill - my very life accuses those who would go to war. The facts speak for themselves.
  
  Do you understand that the behavior of Christians is based largely on their own choice. That's why their numbers will always be a minority.
  
  Majorities that are called "Christian" have become majorities by giving up their piety.
  They have compromised Christian principles on the altar of convenience and popularity. They have chosen to become friends of the world.
  
  You have failed to accomplish the mission stated in your threads title.
  
  The Watchtowers War argument is simply that followers of Christ don't go to war.