Posts by proplog2

5

Open Minded Elder about Blood

by TheListener in

has anyone else seen the debate on another religious board (beliefnet -is that ok?

) about blood?.

apparently someone who has stated he's an elder has asked some questions about blood.

proplog2

If you play the pharisee game with the Watchtower you can't win. You won't lose but you won't win. There is one simple argument against the Watchtower teaching.

"There is nothing from outside a man that passes into him that can defile him; but the things that issue forth out of a man are the things that defile a man....Thus he declared all food clean."

Mark 7:14-23

You can eat blood sausage. Blood can be food. Just don't eat blood around Jews 'cause it may stumble them.

All of this bio-chemistry is unnecessary.

78

Do you believe in ghosts?

by Country Girl in

jw
friends

i am posting this because i know there are many people that have had experiences that cannot be explained by natural means.

i am a ghost hunter, as a hobby.

my hobby is to disprove ghosts.

proplog2

Panda:

Yes I have read Demon Haunted World. It's an excellent book. My copy is on loan to someone and I can't remember who I lent it to.

I think his argument is that extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. And I world generally agree with that. The requirements by scientists are almost as tough as the two witness rule JW's have in the case of child molestation. A child's word is often considered sufficient evidence by the courts to convict a person yet numerous adult observers of UFO events are quickly dismissed as ignorant wackos.

I used to read UFO reports with a skeptical attitude until my family and I and altogether close to a dozen neighbors and friends witnesses an event that would be almost impossible to explain without concluding that it was not from the Earth. I reported it in this forum:

http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/18868/1.ashx

61

If You Could Rename Jehovah's Witnesses What Would You Call 'em?

by Incense_and_Peppermints in

jw
friends

i chose "the society of smoke and mirrors" or "the fuzzy logicians".

but the best one is "the blindfaithians".

proplog2

Russell drew on Second Adventist theology for most of his ideas. So they are a branch of the Second Adventists.

Since I take names and classification with scientific seriousness I would call them

Imminent Adventists because they are awaiting the revelation of Christ "real soon"

78

Do you believe in ghosts?

by Country Girl in

jw
friends

i am posting this because i know there are many people that have had experiences that cannot be explained by natural means.

i am a ghost hunter, as a hobby.

my hobby is to disprove ghosts.

proplog2

Abbadon:

I think there is a distinct difference between the credibility of "ghost" stories and UFO stories.

UFO stories are based on the idea that intelligent creatures could evolve on a different planet or possibly in a parallel universe. We know that intelligent creatures have evolved here on Earth. UFO's deal with a scientific possibility.

Ghost stories are based on the idea that there is some essense of material beings that survives the death of the body - this is of course scientifically impossible. It is based on pre-scientific notions that try to explain what controls the movement of organisms.

UFO stories include a lot of bogus experiences and poor observation made by ignorant observers but there is also a sizeable collection of observations by skeptics, and trained observers ie policeman, military personnel - aviators.

I would put UFO's in the category of proto-science.

I am definitely in the same tent with Metatron on UFO's

78

Do you believe in ghosts?

by Country Girl in

jw
friends

i am posting this because i know there are many people that have had experiences that cannot be explained by natural means.

i am a ghost hunter, as a hobby.

my hobby is to disprove ghosts.

proplog2

Alan F.

Kind of a short comment you made. Are you suggesting the possibility (not the actuality) of alien beings as the source of these "tricks"? Just curious.

I am surprised ghosts aren't more evil. If they can exert force on material objects couldn't they push people down stairs etc.? Or is it the job of angels to make sure the bad spirits are kept in check?

The common thread seems to get humans to believe in life after death. Or is it just more fun to play with people who have pre-scientific notions. What father hasn't tried to scare their young children by pulling a nylon stocking over their face. (Yeah. Maybe I'm just weird). I remember recording a spooky voice calling out to my kids by name. Everything would be timed out so that the recording would play in the basement when I would be with my kids at the top of the basement stairs. It was a little sadistic but also very humorous to see the terror on their little faces. But then I would show them the tape recorder and they would get a big kick out of it. I have to think it was educational too. They would see that there may be interesting things behind scary phenomenon.

There is a lesson in this. Women were made to watch children. Don't think your kids are safe with their fathers.

My point is that if there are alien beings from a parallel universe that can pop into our world how could they resist the opportunity to give some of us superstitious pimitives a little "BOO" once in a while.

39

Do you still Pray?

by Dustin in

jw
friends

since i stopped being a jw i haven't prayed.

so the other day i went to supper at my parent's house who are still jw's, and they prayed before we ate.

it was a very strange feeling, and it stirred up alot of weird feelings.

proplog2

Prayer is cheap therapy. Very few people can be completely honest with themselves. The idea that you are talking to someone who can see through your disguise can provide powerful insights.

If you practice rational self talk where you challenge the bull shit rationalizations going through your head you can get to the point where you benefit even more than prayer.

Prayer stands in the way of the important insight that if things are going to happen you've got to make it happen - not God.

75

The Watchtower: Sincere Old Men or Deliberate Deceivers?

by metatron in

when a witness encounters injustices engendered by the watchtower and considers them.

with clarity of mind, he is likely to suppose that , at worst, the old men who run things.

are sincere but misguided.

proplog2

Metatron:

I agree that the absolute silence of the Watchtower publications on the excellent arguments raised on the internet is very incriminating. They read this stuff and make no effort to rebutt any of it.

The reason is they have no rebuttal. If they had a good rebuttal the would surely use it.

I remember having dinner one night with my parents and Karl Klein and his wife. I had sent a question to the society (in the days when you could still do that) and I never got an answer. So I asked Karl Klein the question and added the fact that they never sent me an answer. He said nothing... there was dead silence and everyone at the table gave me that "how dare you.." look. Karls wife broke the silence and said "they probably don't have an answer". Everyone nodded and continued eating and engaging in fluff conversation.

This really bothered me. My question couldn't be answered because it highlighted an area where they would have to change their teachings.

I rationalized to myself that perhaps the question never got to them because it got lost in the mail. After all I didn't send it registered mail. I chose to decieve myself rather than pursue the truth by sending another letter using registered mail. I further convinced myself that perhaps it wasn't the right time for my question to be answered.

I was sincere but full of crap.

75

The Watchtower: Sincere Old Men or Deliberate Deceivers?

by metatron in

when a witness encounters injustices engendered by the watchtower and considers them.

with clarity of mind, he is likely to suppose that , at worst, the old men who run things.

are sincere but misguided.

proplog2

Willyloman has it right. It is an organization cut loose from its moorings. It is in the same spot that the early Christian church was in at the age of 120. Christ didn't come back so instead of explaining things they had to start "explaining away" a lot of stuff.

The way Metatron phrases his point it seems as if he is looking for someone to blame. In reality it doesn't matter whether they are sincere old men or deliberate deceivers. What matters is the result. As humans we "all" are very good at deception. Sincerity = self-deception. The objective is to make sure the patterns in our head match something out there in the real world.

I wouldn't trade my experience of being deceived by the Watchtower for anything - even wealth and health. It has taught me the need to keep challenging everything. I despise settling into a comfortable mode of thought. I will keep re-examining my beliefs until my mind fades into senility or death.

By the way. Are the essays on the Commentary Press web page Ray Franz's? Does he really think evolution is false? And does he think that the essay on evolution is credible? Is he a sincere old man? I think so. Does he have all the dots connected yet? Probably not. I just hope I never end up like that.

67

1/15/05 Saturday Chicago Meetup--Reza's Restaurant (Clark Street)

by blondie in

jw
friends

1/15/05 saturday chicago meetup?reza?s restaurant, 5255 n clark st (by wrigley field)

we are shooting for 5:30 pm giving us time to eat and talk and go to either the green mill or the jazz showcase afterwards.

parking: street parking possible, free lot (5238 n. clark st.)

proplog2

Please send me an E-Mail so I can be up to date on this.

Isn't the Green Mill kinda small for the anticipated group? Green Mill on Saturday night - way too crowded.

19

Vomit alert re Tsunami and Governing Body

by stillajwexelder in

just had this garabge in my e-mail from a sister.

this report is not verified.

yet if true, our prayers go out to.

proplog2

Several have made the comments that Jehovah's Witnesses are only concerned about JW's and therefore are bad.

This is an unfair judgement. It is hard for humans to mourn in a generalized manner. We try to flesh out the tragedy using people we can identify with. If you had relatives over there on vacation don't you think you would be most concerned about them.

JW reaction is quite normal. The idea that now the victims will have a resurrection is not much different from trying to get comfort from the idea that these people are with god in heaven.